Concerning recent discoveries about the US government

[Pacman Syu]

Let's have a discussion about our privacy, because this is a serious topic.

Over the last couple of days, we've learned about Verizon, Microsoft, Google, Yahoo! Facebook, PalTalk, Youtube, Skype, AOL, Apple, and Verizon sharing vast amount of data with the government in ways that should be driving our country nuts right now. All of this started under George Bush under the Patriot Act in an attempt to secure our nation. It has since been expanded under Barack Obama in his "most transparent presidency".

Here are the slides that were leaked originally about PRISM which have been confirmed by the United States government to be true: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-collection-documents/
According to the document, the NSA can tap into our Email, video chat, voice chat, videos, photos, stored data, as well as other social networking details. These important tech companies have been sharing your data whether you're an American or not.

Since the problem stems from digital sources, I urge you to protect yourself by being a more responsible internet user. Some of these things are harder than others, and I understand that many are too lazy/complacent to do anything about it. Shame on you. Here's some ways to start:

Ditch your Facebook/Instagram account. Twitter seems relatively safe...for now.
Host your own mail server or rent out a cheap box. Encrypt your emails.
Don't get NEAR Skype. Skype is infamous for being completely loose with user data.
Don't have Verizon phone/internet/TV.
Using Yahoo!, Google, or Bing? Sorry. Use Duckduckgo instead.
Not using Youtube is a rather hard thing to request, but thankfully unless you're uploading your own videos or you're not connected via your GMail account, you are a little better off. There's not much of an alternative here.
Don't use Google Chrome, Internet Explorer, or Safari. Firefox with some security addons or some obscure Linux browser protects your data much better.
Encrypt your hard drives.
Don't use Windows/iOS operating systems. Switch to Linux/BSD (steer away from Ubuntu though), where people aren't actively grasping for your information.

I'm sure this sounds irrational to...all of you. It's sad that there's really no rational way to avoid all of this. I know you have people begging you to write/call your local politicians all the time, but I beg you to do it this one time.

To non-US residents: Sorry our government sucks and that they spy on you too.

Sources:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/us/nsa-verizon-calls.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=2&
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%29
http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence-mining-data-from-nine-us-internet-companies-in-broad-secret-program/2013/06/06/3a0c0da8-cebf-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/obama-administration-nsa-verizon-records
http://pastebin.com/MPpT7xaf
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/07/us-apple-nsa-idUSBRE9551EU20130607
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jun/06/verizon-telephone-data-court-order

[JC]

While I understand why there has been a large amount of drama recently regarding the invasion of privacy by NSA and all the above major corporations who are supporting this 'PRISM' initiative - I can't help but think all of the above suggestions need to come with a free tinfoil hat.

Yes the US government could do all of the above technically, but what the hell are you doing that they would want to do any of the above?

If the NSA want's to know what porn I watch, what games I play, what websites I commonly visit and what I do with my spare time they are entirely welcome to it - I honestly couldn't care what information they hold about me because at the end of the day I am sure there are many people out there who that they would be much more interested in than me - that's not about to change.

I'm not going to live in a pile of cotton wool and tinfoil, afraid to browse the internet, unable to keep in touch with my friends and family, resorting to using an incapable operating system just because there is the potential for the NSA to find out a bit of information about me.

I get the concern around this, but ultimately, I don't do anything worth spying on.....

[Mister Kyle]

[Al]

Well I read about how recently the US big-time judge person ordered Google to allow them to user information, but I didn't know it was that serious, that widespread. I was concerned after I found out reading this, but then I read JC's reply...

Yeah lol, there's nothing bad that they could be spying on. If my information was too available to the PUBLIC, then that would be something to be really concerned about.

It's like that joke, 'if robbers came to my house looking for money I'd laugh and search with them'. I have nothing to hide lol.

On another topic of spying...I hear the Chinese spy on US companies all the time lol, and a US security firm did this whole research thing and traced it back to a government/army office. So brings me to my point now...where exactly is the line for spying? What defines as spying? And then there's the whole thing about what you put on social networks..."stalking" people. If you make it available to the public, then if someone stumbles on your profile...and see's your PUBLIC information, is that stalking? So say if we didn't switch to Linux, Firefox, and etc. in this case, would it be justified as spying? I don't think so. I think that things are changing, and more and more information is becoming available to people. It's like the narrative of the information age, but I sure don't think everything should be available to the public. Maybe this is where the line is drawn, this is the brink.

[Josheh]

While I understand why there has been a large amount of drama recently regarding the invasion of privacy by NSA and all the above major corporations who are supporting this 'PRISM' initiative - I can't help but think all of the above suggestions need to come with a free tinfoil hat.

Yes the US government could do all of the above technically, but what the hell are you doing that they would want to do any of the above?

If the NSA want's to know what porn I watch, what games I play, what websites I commonly visit and what I do with my spare time they are entirely welcome to it - I honestly couldn't care what information they hold about me because at the end of the day I am sure there are many people out there who that they would be much more interested in than me - that's not about to change.

I'm not going to live in a pile of cotton wool and tinfoil, afraid to browse the internet, unable to keep in touch with my friends and family, resorting to using an incapable operating system just because there is the potential for the NSA to find out a bit of information about me.

I get the concern around this, but ultimately, I don't do anything worth spying on.....

First they came for the hackers.
But I never did anything illegal with my computer,
so I didn't speak up.

Then they came for the pornographers.
But I thought there was too much smut on the Internet anyway,
so I didn't speak up

Then they came for the anonymous remailers.
But a lot of nasty stuff gets sent from anon.penet.fi,
so I didn't speak up.

Then they came for the encryption users.
But I could never figure out how to work PGP anyway,
so I didn't speak up.

Then they came for me.

And by that time there was no one left to speak up.

[Lighten]

I stopped using Chrome due to the privacy leakage, so I switched to SR Ironware awhile ago (Same thing as Chrome but no logs stored etc.)

I am not going to switch my OS because not many games run on Linux.

I don't really have anything on my Skype except friends so I'm okay with that.

If they are going to monitor what I do on the computer, I will open gay pornography and goatsie for them to monitor.

You are never safe on the internet, regardless of this new policy the US Government is bringing up. Your privacy is always leaked, don't make a big fuss out of this.

US GOVERNMENT CAN'T STOP ME

[Vio]

Like 90% of everything I do on my computer is RS-related.
As long as Obama doesn't drop my bank I don't really care if they watch lol

[PineappleTom]

Oh sh*t. They gonna hack my RS gps!

[Rachellove9]

While I understand why there has been a large amount of drama recently regarding the invasion of privacy by NSA and all the above major corporations who are supporting this 'PRISM' initiative - I can't help but think all of the above suggestions need to come with a free tinfoil hat.

Yes the US government could do all of the above technically, but what the hell are you doing that they would want to do any of the above?

If the NSA want's to know what porn I watch, what games I play, what websites I commonly visit and what I do with my spare time they are entirely welcome to it - I honestly couldn't care what information they hold about me because at the end of the day I am sure there are many people out there who that they would be much more interested in than me - that's not about to change.

I'm not going to live in a pile of cotton wool and tinfoil, afraid to browse the internet, unable to keep in touch with my friends and family, resorting to using an incapable operating system just because there is the potential for the NSA to find out a bit of information about me.

I get the concern around this, but ultimately, I don't do anything worth spying on.....

First they came for the hackers.
But I never did anything illegal with my computer,
so I didn't speak up.

Then they came for the pornographers.
But I thought there was too much smut on the Internet anyway,
so I didn't speak up

Then they came for the anonymous remailers.
But a lot of nasty stuff gets sent from anon.penet.fi,
so I didn't speak up.

Then they came for the encryption users.
But I could never figure out how to work PGP anyway,
so I didn't speak up.

Then they came for me.

And by that time there was no one left to speak up.

To me our president sorta mirrors Hitler.
Honestly anyone that trusts the government should look into the free housing offered by FEMA.
I hear it has a toasty big house heated with Gas and lots of caskets for accommodation of the dead.
They are already widen all the bridges so the tanks can come over them now.
I won't go into all that I think is going down but Brazil is looking good.

[Asaad]

Well, I am guessing everyone knew the government was spying on them in some way or another. TO the extent that they were spying is unknown, even after having access to all sorts of things like this.

Unless you were a wanted criminal, I doubt all this useless junk will be individually monitored anyway.
Obama Analyzes Verizon Customers' Text Messages (Jimmy Fallon)

[Keith]

I don't do anything wrong, and don't really care about my privacy. Why haven't they caught on to pirating yet then?

[Colinwarrior]

I've got nothing to hide.

Unless the CIA is watching me play RS. That would be embarrassing =(

[This Babylon]

really, you guys dont think that you are in any danger considering what you post online, but seeing as the current attempts at gun control and mass population control are pretty much the same thing before any major regime change for the "greater good", this should concern you. The fact is, they are spying on you. Who says they dont want to come for the athiests? the christians? the muslims? be prepared for anything friends



If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves.
Joseph Stalin

"The measures adopted to restore public order are: First of all, the elimination of the so-called subversive elements. ... They were elements of disorder and subversion.  On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind.  This confiscation, which continues with the utmost energy, has given satisfactory results."
- Benito Mussolini, address to the Italian Senate, 1931

"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun.  The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party."
- Mao Tze Tung, Nov 6 1938

"Armas para que? ("Guns, for what?")"
A response to Cuban citizens who said the people might need to keep their guns, after Castro announced strict gun control in Cuba.
- Fidel Castro

the fact of the matter is, when you take a mans ability to fight back against an oppressor, you take his freedom away, all of the above nations butchered people, committed human rights violations on a global scale, and generally where just aweful people.
The fact that our leaders are currently trying to follow their lead concerns me, and it should concern you.

[milfhunt3r]

Lol, i dont think weve had privacy since the early 2000s, to be honest. I know a lot of people that are aware of shit like that... But people dont really take action out here they just kind of watch it.... I mean come on, this guy gets a ridiculous amount of signatures to nullify the first ammendment , even though hes just trolling them


Americans sign petition to repeal the First Amendment

Were pretty much boned. Google Obama's FEMA camps.

[Colinwarrior]

I've got plenty of opinions on these subjects, but it's just too exhausting to get into right now...

[Al]

really, you guys dont think that you are in any danger considering what you post online, but seeing as the current attempts at gun control and mass population control are pretty much the same thing before any major regime change for the "greater good", this should concern you. The fact is, they are spying on you. Who says they dont want to come for the athiests? the christians? the muslims? be prepared for anything friends



If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves.
Joseph Stalin

"The measures adopted to restore public order are: First of all, the elimination of the so-called subversive elements. ... They were elements of disorder and subversion.  On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind.  This confiscation, which continues with the utmost energy, has given satisfactory results."
- Benito Mussolini, address to the Italian Senate, 1931

"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun.  The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party."
- Mao Tze Tung, Nov 6 1938

"Armas para que? ("Guns, for what?")"
A response to Cuban citizens who said the people might need to keep their guns, after Castro announced strict gun control in Cuba.
- Fidel Castro

the fact of the matter is, when you take a mans ability to fight back against an oppressor, you take his freedom away, all of the above nations butchered people, committed human rights violations on a global scale, and generally where just aweful people.
The fact that our leaders are currently trying to follow their lead concerns me, and it should concern you.

The police and military are also

"ordinary citizens"?

[This Babylon]

actually, we are. we have just taken certain oaths to defend the people.

[Owen]

really, you guys dont think that you are in any danger considering what you post online, but seeing as the current attempts at gun control and mass population control are pretty much the same thing before any major regime change for the "greater good", this should concern you. The fact is, they are spying on you. Who says they dont want to come for the athiests? the christians? the muslims? be prepared for anything friends



If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves.
Joseph Stalin

"The measures adopted to restore public order are: First of all, the elimination of the so-called subversive elements. ... They were elements of disorder and subversion.  On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind.  This confiscation, which continues with the utmost energy, has given satisfactory results."
- Benito Mussolini, address to the Italian Senate, 1931

"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun.  The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party."
- Mao Tze Tung, Nov 6 1938

"Armas para que? ("Guns, for what?")"
A response to Cuban citizens who said the people might need to keep their guns, after Castro announced strict gun control in Cuba.
- Fidel Castro

the fact of the matter is, when you take a mans ability to fight back against an oppressor, you take his freedom away, all of the above nations butchered people, committed human rights violations on a global scale, and generally where just aweful people.
The fact that our leaders are currently trying to follow their lead concerns me, and it should concern you.

No guns over in Britland bro, and we seem to be more "free" than you.

Anyway, if the government seeing that I like to watch porn parodies, and runescape videos means that in 2 years they catch a domestic terrorist before they commit an attack like 9/11, or worse.  Then I'm absolutely fine with that.

If the government is interested in what I post on facebook, but in 4 years they manage to catch 20 paedophiles before they rape 100 twelve year olds from other facebook information.  Then I'm absolutely fine with that.

[This Babylon]

really, you guys dont think that you are in any danger considering what you post online, but seeing as the current attempts at gun control and mass population control are pretty much the same thing before any major regime change for the "greater good", this should concern you. The fact is, they are spying on you. Who says they dont want to come for the athiests? the christians? the muslims? be prepared for anything friends



If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves.
Joseph Stalin

"The measures adopted to restore public order are: First of all, the elimination of the so-called subversive elements. ... They were elements of disorder and subversion.  On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind.  This confiscation, which continues with the utmost energy, has given satisfactory results."
- Benito Mussolini, address to the Italian Senate, 1931

"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun.  The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party."
- Mao Tze Tung, Nov 6 1938

"Armas para que? ("Guns, for what?")"
A response to Cuban citizens who said the people might need to keep their guns, after Castro announced strict gun control in Cuba.
- Fidel Castro

the fact of the matter is, when you take a mans ability to fight back against an oppressor, you take his freedom away, all of the above nations butchered people, committed human rights violations on a global scale, and generally where just aweful people.
The fact that our leaders are currently trying to follow their lead concerns me, and it should concern you.

No guns over in Britland bro, and we seem to be more "free" than you.

Anyway, if the government seeing that I like to watch porn parodies, and runescape videos means that in 2 years they catch a domestic terrorist before they commit an attack like 9/11, or worse.  Then I'm absolutely fine with that.

If the government is interested in what I post on facebook, but in 4 years they manage to catch 20 paedophiles before they rape 100 twelve year olds from other facebook information.  Then I'm absolutely fine with that.

http://gawker.com/terror-in-london-soldier-hacked-apart-by-machete-wield-509321352

[Owen]

really, you guys dont think that you are in any danger considering what you post online, but seeing as the current attempts at gun control and mass population control are pretty much the same thing before any major regime change for the "greater good", this should concern you. The fact is, they are spying on you. Who says they dont want to come for the athiests? the christians? the muslims? be prepared for anything friends



If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves.
Joseph Stalin

"The measures adopted to restore public order are: First of all, the elimination of the so-called subversive elements. ... They were elements of disorder and subversion.  On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind.  This confiscation, which continues with the utmost energy, has given satisfactory results."
- Benito Mussolini, address to the Italian Senate, 1931

"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun.  The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party."
- Mao Tze Tung, Nov 6 1938

"Armas para que? ("Guns, for what?")"
A response to Cuban citizens who said the people might need to keep their guns, after Castro announced strict gun control in Cuba.
- Fidel Castro

the fact of the matter is, when you take a mans ability to fight back against an oppressor, you take his freedom away, all of the above nations butchered people, committed human rights violations on a global scale, and generally where just aweful people.
The fact that our leaders are currently trying to follow their lead concerns me, and it should concern you.

No guns over in Britland bro, and we seem to be more "free" than you.

Anyway, if the government seeing that I like to watch porn parodies, and runescape videos means that in 2 years they catch a domestic terrorist before they commit an attack like 9/11, or worse.  Then I'm absolutely fine with that.

If the government is interested in what I post on facebook, but in 4 years they manage to catch 20 paedophiles before they rape 100 twelve year olds from other facebook information.  Then I'm absolutely fine with that.

http://gawker.com/terror-in-london-soldier-hacked-apart-by-machete-wield-509321352

And your point is?

[Rachellove9]

I'm glad to see other people are aware of what is going on.
I haven't figured out exactly what to do.
Educating yourselves of what is going on in the world and your own countries seems like a good thing.

To Owen:

I'm concerned that those things are bi-products of a greater agenda.
Those things happening are great.
Why aren't they catching drug dealers with all this available to them?
There are cameras everywhere in usa now.
You really can't go out of your home and not be watched.
It's not just in town, it's anywhere you can see sky.

[Al]

What I'm about to write below concerns mostly my fellow Americans, so just a heads up if you're not from the US or anything you might not be interested. If not, you can scroll to the last few paragraphs, past the "~" ;).

Honestly anyone that trusts the government should look into the free housing offered by FEMA.

What does trusting our government have anything with FEMA?

@Babylon That was a rhetorical question. The president, police, military, your fireman, mailman are also citizens of the US like we are, as you know. I was responding to your pic and quotes. Now...not a rhetorical question - if the military have firearms, that means the citizens do too? As in...you, as a member of our military, would you suppress the people in the event of a Nazi Germany (hypothetically)?

Comparing our president to Hitler, posting quotes from other political leaders in history...it's apples and oranges. Hitler wasn't even black.

The quotes. It's talking history...and I'm sorry to say but saying our president is a Hitler is a pretty uneducated remark. And I don't mean to say YOU'RE uneducated, I mean that if you said that keeping in mind of how our government works, something like a Nazi Germany would be virtually impossible to take off. Our govt. is structured in a way that nobody in the govt. branches are ever all-too-powerful (checks and balances, from the constitution). The legislators, senators, and president are joes like us, make a salary just like us, put on underwear in the morning just like us.

While we poke fun at our political leaders and Congress (10% approval rating of it as in fact I just found out), we're (WE the people) are responsible for it. That's OUR Congress not the "government's". My point is don't treat the government like they're a separate entity, that's the beauty of our government...whether you hate their decisions or not, we're the ones who make up the members of the houses that pass the bills and the decisions, WE have responsibility for choosing a president. So when shit happens like FEMA or whatever, a bad bill passes, that reflects back at us too.

~

Also...because people probably missed my first reply above, to reiterate, if we want to go anywhere with this instead of making it seem like our government is the enemy, do you think we're evolving as far as ethics in this "information age"? What information do not want to people to see, and what information do you think should be available to people? Literally - list some things out.

Think about the information you make available to the public and/or government (because if your government can see "bad" information, then it probably wasn't that hard to obtain in the first place). For example, bonehead friends that post pics of them smoking weed online. What information do you not want to share with the government? And if you aren't fine with sharing it...why? Are you doing something illegal?

In the governments point of view: Why are you concerned? Got something to hide? ...So you do? Well wow we're only more interested. :>

[Al]

There are cameras everywhere in usa now.

There are cameras everywhere in London.
Is that bad? :P

[Owen]

To Owen:

I'm concerned that those things are bi-products of a greater agenda.
Those things happening are great.
Why aren't they catching drug dealers with all this available to them?
There are cameras everywhere in usa now.
You really can't go out of your home and not be watched.
It's not just in town, it's anywhere you can see sky.

"There were 80% more arrests for drug possession or use in 2010 than in 1990. Even though the rate declined between 2006 and 2010, the arrest rate for drug possession or use in 2010 was still 46% above its 1990 level and was at levels similar to those seen between 1997 and 2002."

Source: http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=4515

They probably ARE using the information to catch drug and violence offenders, that's the whole point in them keeping/collecting the information.  I don't think they're collecting the information to have a giggle at what some people browse on the internet.

Also, regarding some of this information, as far as I'm aware the only information they get is time/location of texts/calls being placed.  They don't get the actual information sent between them without a warrant.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one"

[This Babylon]

the point is, is basically what Rachel said, its almost like they are more concerned with the average citizen than a extremest muslim. They seem to want to take away the ability for the average man to defend himself in our nation currently, which is not the point. The point of our second amendment is so that we can defend ourselves against any foreign nation/ group bent on doing ill will to them, and that's exactly what is happening right now. I guarantee that incident with the machete would not happen in America, its like the Admiral Yamamoto once said when asked why he did not invade during pearl harbor, considering he was so close to doing so already "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass". Generally speaking, most people are not concerned with global affairs, so they look through a small lens. They only see gangbangers and colombine, ignoring the principles that our nation was founded on, and the reasoning behind giving citizens the right to own a firearm. The fact remains that they gave the right to the people so they could be wolves, not sheep. Disarming us takes that away.

also, about the drug dealer thing, that is great that they are making progress, but they really should focus manpower in stopping the druglords, and destroying the infrastructure used to transport drugs into the country.