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"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship |
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Posted: August 3, 2009 07:16 pm  | |||||||||
      IRC Nickname: Chimpy Group: Banned Posts: 2521 Member No.: 1474 Joined: November 16, 2008 Total Events Attended: 133    | So yeah, didn't want to post this on the hall of shame topic, thought it would be to much drama. No drama here plz  .So Anyways, I went to get Joe's side of the story, and it varied a bit from what the post said, or wasn't as bad as it was made out to be. This isn't meant to defend Joe, but I'm just throwing this out there.
Joe wanted me to pass this on:
Anyways seems a little strange, can we get any clarrification or anything? Discuss. --------------------    | ||||||||
Posted: August 3, 2009 07:22 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Owennnn Group: Emeritus Posts: 1447 Member No.: 37 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 55 | I think at heart Joe was a good member, he just didn't really know the best way to go about things. He reminded me very much of Rick Hamm, who was another good friend of mine. Joe always knew what was right for this clan, but had a hard time voicing it maturely. In my opinion I didn't see anything that warranted his warning level being maintained at that high a level for as long as it did. -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: August 3, 2009 07:24 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Chimpy Group: Banned Posts: 2521 Member No.: 1474 Joined: November 16, 2008 Total Events Attended: 133 |
I agree. He seemed like he always had very strong opinions and just wasn't very good at disagreeing with people in a nice manner  . -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: August 3, 2009 07:26 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Gorgemaster Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 9840 Member No.: 3 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 540 | Sure i'll clarify. For the Hall of Shame topic I just digged out his warn log and went back quite a long way, flaming staff (whizzy) was like... last year sometime when she was a raid leader. It was just to post a full picture of what he has done to WG in the past and now in the present. He's definately lying (no idea why  ) about Lordy not talking to him.Lordy talked with him last night and warned him. He then told me that if Joe was to do it again, I was to ban him without needing his permission, so I did. It's all HIS fault and I want you to remember that. He was in full knowledge of what he was doing, yet he persisted. Suspensions did nothing to him as when he came back from a suspension he was deliberately bad again... Hope i've cleared some of that up Chimp  ~George --------------------    | ||||||||
Posted: August 3, 2009 07:45 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Chimpy Group: Banned Posts: 2521 Member No.: 1474 Joined: November 16, 2008 Total Events Attended: 133 |
Joe still swears that Lordy never scolded him. He says that he talked with Lordy recently but that he didn't scold him.
I think it's possible there was a mix up in communication on Lordy's part. MAybe not, idk. -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: August 3, 2009 08:28 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: chip54321 Group: Emeritus Posts: 532 Member No.: 119 Joined: January 11, 2008 Total Events Attended: 197 | I think it would be worth looking into, it would suck to lose such a loyal, long- time member like joe to a simple misunderstanding --------------------      | ||||||||
Posted: August 3, 2009 09:34 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: `Nath Group: Guest Posts: 1897 Member No.: 1873 Joined: May 11, 2009 Total Events Attended: 70 | I don't know what to say, maybe he did deserve to be banned, but i bet alot of members of WG disagree, i know i do, hes a loyal member of WG and does have alot of valid reasons for what he was doing, 21 times i think hes right in what he done tbh, me and darth maybe shouldn't have done what we did, and him reporting our posts imo is correct Sorry ill post something better tomorrow im a bit pissed off atm. --------------------
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Posted: August 3, 2009 09:42 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Lefty Group: Emeritus Posts: 3340 Member No.: 1055 Joined: June 30, 2008 Total Events Attended: 211 | I think that this decision is biased. That is all. I really don't want to see Joe banned. --------------------      | ||||||||
Posted: August 3, 2009 09:46 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 | I cannot believe that Joe is banned. George you cleared up nothing for me. I'm more confused after reading that. This is the first I've seen anything and I'm extremely disappointed in how Joe has been handled. I haven't agreed with many of the warnings that were so carelessly slapped on him. I'm going to read the goodbye . . . I doubt I will feel any differently. George weren't you also the one to finally ban Rick Hamm too? --------------------  Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~  | ||||||||
Posted: August 3, 2009 09:46 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: `Nath Group: Guest Posts: 1897 Member No.: 1873 Joined: May 11, 2009 Total Events Attended: 70 | I don't want to see a rift in the clan, but im annoyed at whats happen. Was there really no other way this could have been resolved? --------------------
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Posted: August 3, 2009 09:48 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Chimpy Group: Banned Posts: 2521 Member No.: 1474 Joined: November 16, 2008 Total Events Attended: 133 | Remember no drama/flaming plz! :< -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: August 3, 2009 10:10 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: bto Group: Emeritus Posts: 3815 Member No.: 196 Joined: February 3, 2008 Total Events Attended: 332 |
Not gonna lie, Joe did have a ton of warnings before hand. I think hes had one of the highest accumulations of warnings ever. Though a demotion would get through to his head. However, Joe has probably been one of the most dedicated members I've seen in my history of WG. You've though from all the crap he points out that eventually he would have became tired and left. He has been here through thick and thin, and I'm not gonna lie when I say that I've been ragged on alot for being biased, especially during trial raid leader apps. Allowing Joe to stay, seeing hes gained over +300% warn so far since he joined would be being biased, but with a different reaction. But eh we're human, we're biased people  I will talk to the other council and see if we can find another solution. -------------------- bto  Ex-WG Warlord  "It is our direction, not our intentions, that lead us to our destinations." | ||||||||
Posted: August 3, 2009 10:28 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 | Yeah, I really think that this decision could have gone another way... Being able to see the warn logs and see why each warning was given, I personally think that a few were not so much as "This is bad to WG" but "Hey you did this to ME?" Regardless, I don't think this punishment fits the crime...in any way. I can see how spam reporting is annoying...but when it goes to an inbox and you don't really have to read every single e-mail I can't see how it's that huge of a problem? I agree with Owen on the Rick Hamm comparison. They're both very much alike. Both have WGs interests at heart and both were kicked out. Sad really. Joe was, and I'll always think of him as one of the best Guardians ever. He never really thought about himself. Never asked for anything, never sought recognition, but did a shit ton of stuff to benefit WG. I REALLY hope something can be worked out. --------------------   | ||||||||
Posted: August 3, 2009 10:45 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Lefty Group: Emeritus Posts: 3340 Member No.: 1055 Joined: June 30, 2008 Total Events Attended: 211 | I believe a warn or two were personal problems that someone had with Joe. That is what I mean by saying the decision being biased. -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: August 3, 2009 11:04 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Bam Group: Emeritus Posts: 2762 Member No.: 131 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 111 | i would kinda like lordy to post the convo between him and joe. --------------------  | ||||||||
Posted: August 3, 2009 11:07 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Chimpy Group: Banned Posts: 2521 Member No.: 1474 Joined: November 16, 2008 Total Events Attended: 133 |
+1 -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: August 3, 2009 11:13 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 |
Good idea. -------------------- Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~ | ||||||||
Posted: August 3, 2009 11:40 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 |
Spoke with Joe in-game shortly before I left for work. I asked him about this conversation and he said it didn't happen. I told him I'd do the same. Gene, if you can, just to put us all at ease, please post the logs. -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: August 3, 2009 11:57 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: [JC] Group: Emeritus Posts: 3320 Member No.: 23 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 147 | Just a technical problem with that, I don't know that Lordy keeps log files? --------------------  Old awards wat Most Mature & Most Honourable Most Dedicated|IRC Freak|Best Emeritus Placeholder lolz | ||||||||
Posted: August 4, 2009 12:33 am | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Chimpy Group: Banned Posts: 2521 Member No.: 1474 Joined: November 16, 2008 Total Events Attended: 133 |
Hopefully he does  -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: August 4, 2009 03:41 am | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: DyIan Group: Emeritus Posts: 1205 Member No.: 1638 Joined: January 15, 2009 Total Events Attended: 107 | Joe was a good member but he had his problems :/ --------------------   | ||||||||
Posted: August 4, 2009 04:15 am | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: [Randy] Group: Raid Leader Posts: 5065 Member No.: 16 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 499 | The thing that you guys dont understand is that Joe isnt an asshole just because he wants to. He does that stuff when he feels that someone is jeopordizing the welfare of the clan. Sure he isnt the nicest but face it, if you ban him youre making it seem like no one can speak up comfortably anymore. I have Joes back because he means good and has always been there for wg. Banning him is a bad call try looking at it from a members point of view. sorry if that made no sense im on my phone --------------------   | ||||||||
Posted: August 4, 2009 04:43 am | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Chimpy Group: Banned Posts: 2521 Member No.: 1474 Joined: November 16, 2008 Total Events Attended: 133 |
I agree 100%. -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: August 4, 2009 05:00 am | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Brian|30 Group: Ex-Member Posts: 565 Member No.: 1547 Joined: December 13, 2008 Total Events Attended: 75 | Above it all I think it would do more damage to WG to keep Joe banned even if he is guilty than it would be for him to stay. -------------------- Dragon Claws Drops: 1 2 Dragonic Visage Drops: 1 Ruined Dragon Drops: 1 Abyssal Whip Drops: 1 2 | ||||||||
Posted: August 4, 2009 05:16 am | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 | Randy has basically summed up my views completely. Banning Joe is basically setting the precedent that speaking up isn't tolerable. Yes, disagreements are allowed - we can't do anything about that, but really taking a stance and being steadfast and vocal won't be allowed. I think we can all agree that he doesn't always use the calmest method of getting his thoughts and opinions across. But put yourself in his shoes. You're a regular member who cares dearly for his clan, and you see stuff fucking it up, what are you going to do? Another example. There is a structure (bridge, tower) you've invested a lot of time in - not a something you did alone, but was a collaborative effort. Someone starts to work on it, but with each "addition" you see the structure start to wobble. What is your honest reaction? Are you really going to calmly walk towards said person and say "Hi, do you realize that your changes are actually causing the structure to become unstable," or are you going to cuss that person the fuck out - "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING!?" Yes, he's vocal. Yes he's rude. But you can't honestly say he's wrong. Call it bad judgement, but like it or not, he's usually right. I'd agree if he were calling bullshit, but it's usually pointing out people that can harm this clan. He's a huge asset to this clan. -------------------- | ||||||||
Regarding Joe
) about Lordy not talking to him.
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