| . : News : . | . : Message of the Week : . |
You are currently viewing an archive of the Wilderness Guardians clan's IPB1 forums.
These forums were used by WG from 2008 to 2011, and now exist for historical and achival purposes only. For the clan's current forums, CLICK HERE. |
"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship |
|---|---|---|
| War Alert: OFF | Raid Alert: OFF | |
PM a WG Official |
||
Pages: (2) [1] 2
Posted: January 18, 2010 10:57 pm  | |||||||
      IRC Nickname: Snowzak Group: Emeritus Posts: 1193 Member No.: 5 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67    | Pros - People can plan long in advance to come at this raid which happens every week at this precise time - Maintains a base for PKers to go PK, makes WG get out in the wildy - Enables leaders to enforce activity requirements coherently (if there are always X raids per week, you can ask for X attendance per week/month) - Polls could be made regularly to determin the best times to get the most attendance, and we could have people commit to THIS time EVERY week instead of committing to "come as often as you can" - (Vephyrus) We need to show that we don't just have set community events but also set pk events besides warring. It will be more appealing to members when they join too - (Snowzak) Five fixed raids were excessive. One per week wouldn't be any harm, providing you make it flexible: switching between wars/PKs, P2p/F2p. Also you'd have to be flexible with the people. The raid times were fixed forever. Fixing one raid's time for a 2/3/4 month period wouldn't be dramatic. The times should also not be set randomly, on an instinctive basis like before. It can't be hard to poll every three months the exact time of the week where we're most likely to pull our max... Cons - Running into the same clans all the time - Rigidity in raid times blocking other events - Low attendance because un-special? - (Chimpy) These have pretty much always failed, because we didn't always go out at those times, and makes us vulnerable to being hit by bigger clans every week should they find out. Our pulls were also generally no. - (BTO) Firstly, when you have weekly raids, it really isnt as important in the eyes of members. Secondly, it restricts the type of pking we experience, since we're fighting in these strict time periods. Thirdly, it creates more pressure for raid leaders and warlords then needed. If anybody has anything to add (please do!), post and I'll gladly insert your idea into pro or con. I'd just like to get a debate started. Stifling points of view never helps. --------------------  London RL Meeting attendee - Paris RL meeting attendee Joined WG in October 2005 - Original DG - Ex-Raid Leader Proud Council Member from October 21st 2007 to May 19th 2008 | ||||||
Posted: January 18, 2010 10:59 pm | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: DG_Keanu Group: Council Posts: 4782 Member No.: 2033 Joined: August 25, 2009 Total Events Attended: 173 | Yes. We need these back. --------------------  [05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic [05:42] <%kat> same | ||||||
Posted: January 18, 2010 11:25 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 7306 Member No.: 47 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 343 | either way tbh  -------------------- July 5, 2007 - June 27, 2011 | ||||||
Posted: January 18, 2010 11:32 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Snowzak Group: Emeritus Posts: 1193 Member No.: 5 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67 |
did you mean by that: edit in a third option "All PKers join PK teams and WG becomes a community clan" ?  -------------------- London RL Meeting attendee - Paris RL meeting attendee Joined WG in October 2005 - Original DG - Ex-Raid Leader Proud Council Member from October 21st 2007 to May 19th 2008 | ||||||
Posted: January 18, 2010 11:34 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: DG_Keanu Group: Council Posts: 4782 Member No.: 2033 Joined: August 25, 2009 Total Events Attended: 173 |
You mean we haven't already done that?  -------------------- [05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic [05:42] <%kat> same | ||||||
Posted: January 18, 2010 11:42 pm | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Vephy Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 6186 Member No.: 813 Joined: June 10, 2008 Total Events Attended: 478 | Yes, we need to show that we don't just have set community events but also set pk events besides warring. It will be more appealing to members when they join too. --------------------   | ||||||
Posted: January 18, 2010 11:45 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: [Randy] Group: Raid Leader Posts: 5065 Member No.: 16 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 499 | Someone remind me/us why we stopped doing them? I'm sure we had a good reason. --------------------   | ||||||
Posted: January 18, 2010 11:51 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Snowzak Group: Emeritus Posts: 1193 Member No.: 5 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67 |
Was one of my great wonders also. Lack of hosting/attendance? -------------------- London RL Meeting attendee - Paris RL meeting attendee Joined WG in October 2005 - Original DG - Ex-Raid Leader Proud Council Member from October 21st 2007 to May 19th 2008 | ||||||
Posted: January 19, 2010 12:04 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Webberson Group: Guest Posts: 153 Member No.: 2205 Joined: January 8, 2010 Total Events Attended: 12 | Agree, 100%. Voted yes. -------------------- Mikel Arteta  Tim CahillNothing But The Best | ||||||
Posted: January 19, 2010 12:22 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Vephy Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 6186 Member No.: 813 Joined: June 10, 2008 Total Events Attended: 478 |
The reason was we didn't have strong enough pulls so we opted toward spontaneous raids when more people were on. We aren't doing that at the moment either it appears. -------------------- | ||||||
Posted: January 19, 2010 12:49 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Snowzak Group: Emeritus Posts: 1193 Member No.: 5 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67 |
Yep, that's something that'd been done before also. But it fails when inactivity comes back, or when RLs get legitimately absent/cbf. Maybe a blend of the two options would work. Have a minimum, perhaps. -------------------- London RL Meeting attendee - Paris RL meeting attendee Joined WG in October 2005 - Original DG - Ex-Raid Leader Proud Council Member from October 21st 2007 to May 19th 2008 | ||||||
Posted: January 19, 2010 12:50 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Majeic Group: Ex-Member Posts: 775 Member No.: 1671 Joined: January 28, 2009 Total Events Attended: 77 | I believe we should. We hardly have any raids anymore. Maybe if people knew when they were we'd have some attendance. --------------------    | ||||||
Posted: January 19, 2010 01:10 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Vephy Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 6186 Member No.: 813 Joined: June 10, 2008 Total Events Attended: 478 |
Ya I agree neither should be permanent, just the best option at the time. -------------------- | ||||||
Posted: January 19, 2010 01:10 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Chimpy Group: Banned Posts: 2521 Member No.: 1474 Joined: November 16, 2008 Total Events Attended: 133 | These have pretty much always failed, because we didn't always go out at those times, and makes us vulnerable to being hit by bigger clans every week should they find out. Our pulls were also generally no. Therefore I say no, I opt for planned raids, but not weekly, also some weekday raids. --------------------    | ||||||
Posted: January 19, 2010 02:43 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Snowzak Group: Emeritus Posts: 1193 Member No.: 5 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67 |
I can see where you're coming from. But why reject the idea totally. One doesn't exclude the other. Five fixed raids were excessive. One per week wouldn't be any harm, providing you make it flexible: switching between wars/PKs, P2p/F2p. Also you'd have to be flexible with the people. The raid times were fixed forever. Fixing one raid's time for a 2/3/4 month period wouldn't be dramatic. The times should also not be set randomly, on an instinctive basis like before. It can't be hard to poll every three months the exact time of the week where we're most likely to pull our max... -------------------- London RL Meeting attendee - Paris RL meeting attendee Joined WG in October 2005 - Original DG - Ex-Raid Leader Proud Council Member from October 21st 2007 to May 19th 2008 | ||||||
Posted: January 19, 2010 04:40 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: [JC] Group: Emeritus Posts: 3320 Member No.: 23 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 147 |
If I recall it was because it became too easy to intentionally dodge them so the attendance gradually fell until we were pulling <10 to each one and it was a choice of moving to spontaneous raids or enforcing much more stringent activity requirements. A mix of both (activity req's and spontaneous raids) has now been tried, but obviously from the problems we're having now it is no longer successful. I would suggest returning to a mix of 'fixed' raid times with ONE time set per week for a raid with an EST/GMT/AEST suited time (so every week we have a different raid, repeating every three weeks). This way we're still getting a variety of different raids/not repeating week after week, while still having a time for a raid that you know you can be sure will be on. I agree that a variety of both F2p/P2p and wars/pkri's/raids is necessary, but be careful getting the balance right. --------------------  Old awards wat Most Mature & Most Honourable Most Dedicated|IRC Freak|Best Emeritus Placeholder lolz | ||||||
Posted: January 19, 2010 10:10 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 | The time vary thing may be a problem but if we had like a general time for an event scheduled. Like something more flexible. Maybe have an event time for every day of the week. Then when people come to that time slot make a decision of what the event will be. So if you don't get enough for a raid you still do something maybe Stealing Creations or Castle Wars or something. I've seen the disappointment when we don't pull enough and then they give up scheduling to come to things. --------------------  Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~  | ||||||
Posted: January 19, 2010 05:21 pm | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: bto Group: Emeritus Posts: 3815 Member No.: 196 Joined: February 3, 2008 Total Events Attended: 332 | Weekly raids havent recently really worked for us. Essentially, its just raiding for the sake of raiding. Firstly, when you have weekly raids, it really isnt as important in the eyes of members. Secondly, it restricts the type of pking we experience, since we're fighting in these strict time periods. Thirdly, it creates more pressure for raid leaders and warlords then needed. I personally dont know, but if you asked the raid leaders on what they felt about the current state of WG's raiding, they'll tend to go towards the unfavorable side. Also, leaders may not want to create wars. We had this arguement up in level 3 back when I was warlord. I believe that it passed and we did reestablish weekly raids, but they were uneffective; Raid leaders could not consistantly make these raids, and raiding became a chore for WG. I understand we're trying to promote raiding, but this isnt the way to go. Fixed times causes rigidness, and doesnt allow flexiblity and adaptation. Back when I was staff, we did not have fixed raids. Raids were generally just hated because it basically just involved running around hunting PH in a low level zone, and running when we couldnt compete. We did not go out at fixed times on a fixed day; rather we went out once a week, ranging from friday, saturday, and sunday. I experimented with different times to try to find a suitable time for WG, where we could compete with clans and teams our size. We started of week with maybe 10 man pulls, clearing small teams and strays. Eventually, people became more experienced, and we gained bits of numbers here and there. The turning point where we probably emerged from just a bunch of people pking to an organized fighting was our onesided encounter with Gladz in P2P, and our domination of TNG. From my point of view, it looked like WG members were really excited to raid; although we constantly invited allies, our pulls were always pretty much solid, ranging from 15-25 consistantly. What even suprised me were the P2P tank practices; you'd think they would have been just a terrible as f2p ones tend to be, but usually there was a decent amount of people, and I know for a fact that they helped WG's P2P fighting ALOT. We have some mad P2P tanks. WG was really taking well to P2P raiding, and we used that to take steps backwards into F2P, and P2P matched fights. So summarizing it up for raid leaders: -Do NOT raid just to raid; make raid because you know there will be a good chance of sucess. - DO NOT DO WEEKLY RAIDS, unless you want to bore WG into submission. MAYBE you can do it later, but really, are we in the state to do this? It might work for a while, but unless the raids are full of action and sucess, the only thing you're going to see after a while is lower opts. You can still make the raid "weekly," but make sure not to overabuse it. Throw in a p2p war or f2p war in that time slot once in a while instead of raiding. - Find a goal and pursue it. Everything you should should somehow relate to this longterm goal. Goals like "I want WG to be #1 P2P" isnt realistic, but saying "I want WG to be more skilled in P2P" is. Think about WHY other clans policies and tactics are effective, and see how you can implement/change it to your own. For example, Why is ___ clan so strong? Because they have great organization and unity. Why? How did they get that organization? Its all baby steps. - Activity - Always keep the clan active with a raid or war. You guys seem to be doing an amazing job keeping everyone on their toes, so good job. Make sure you guys balance it out; you dont want to burn out. -F2P or P2P? This is a pretty popular question, especially when you consider variety. Where will we have more sucess? Which raid will be more exciting? Are you going to slam your head against a brick wall when you KNOW we're not strong enough for F2P raiding , or are you going to try a way around it? - Dont be afraid to experiment with times. Try to plan raids at different times based on the state of PvP at the moment. Some of you that were active when I was a Warlord may have noticed that our raiding schedule eventually changed to try to meet the raiding schedule of Distortion (5:30ish EST). If you're running into DF and RoT every time you step out, it would probably be a good idea to switch the times a bit. - Sucess - Make sure you guys come out as a winner. Nothing is worst then ending a raid with an asswhoping. Don't overuse it. Clearing all of welfarers in a barrage pile may seem epic the first time you do it, but after a while, it just becomes "standard" and not really exciting anymore. - DO NOT OVERUSE EVENTS. Variety is good. If you want to focus on P2P and not really on F2P, but you've been raiding in P2P so much, get a P2P war. Clearing all of welfarers in a barrage pile may seem epic the first time you do it, but after a while, it just becomes "standard" and not really exciting anymore. It becomes "just another raid" - Raid Length - If no ones out, no ones out; dont keep trying to find an enemy that isnt there. Even if you do find one at the end of the raid, its going to turn into a PKRI. And the only thing that can happen as time goes on, is lower, and lower opts. - Baby steps - People need to gain experience and need to get trained. Dont start off doing PKRIs and Fullouts if you fail at matched. If you want to get more experience in P2P, maybe arrange a war with allies. - Tactics - Dont be afraid to try different stuff. If its getting to the 8-10 people range and they have 12, you probably are not going to win doing the same thing, unless you have superior levels or they end up cabbage porting. Throw in pile switches, but make sure to pile switch the same people, and dont overabuse it. Try mass binding if you think the hybrid has alot of food/run and wont take that much damage. Antisnipe doesnt work? Try calling a PILE on the person for one second, instead of just assigning antisnipe. Sure, it waste time on the main pile, but your damage output is much higher on that sniper then it would have been for your main pile. They wont be coming back if you keep doing it, AND if they do, you already have a weakened candidate for the next pile. Snipers weaken other people for a reason, MAKE SURE THOSE SNIPED TARGETS DIE, OR YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A GUY ON ONE FOOD DISHING OUT DAMAGE FOR 10 MINUTES. KILL THEM, STOP LEAVING THEM TILL THE END. Even if you fail, it will still make you a better raid leader and your people will be much more flexible to changes. Every clan has its roots to the baby steps. Once you master those, the rest will come naturally. Props if you actually read this (Keanu). Basically outlines the most important stuff I learned while leading. Got a bit off topic, but that was basically my bible  -------------------- bto  Ex-WG Warlord  "It is our direction, not our intentions, that lead us to our destinations." | ||||||
Posted: January 19, 2010 05:48 pm | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Billy|Gilli Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1545 Member No.: 1451 Joined: November 9, 2008 Total Events Attended: 91 | We need this, currently we have a weekly aussie, raid, which is alotta fun, although not many can attend. If attendances start to fall, we need to find out why, the chances are it will be the same people not attending. Mayby think of the attendance req to be, So many events attended per month, with 50% of them events to be Pk/War based. Excluding CWA wars, this will show the people who are just ignorant to losing raid gear. Mayby also change the grad req, you have 1 month to attend 10 events, 5 of them must be PKs. Thats little over 1 pk per week and 1 other event per week over the course of a month, this will show who is PK active and who is plain lazy. --------------------    | ||||||
Posted: January 19, 2010 08:18 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Snowzak Group: Emeritus Posts: 1193 Member No.: 5 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67 | Ah, getting serious material, good, good BTO, it looks like most of the problems with your previous experience of fixed raid times came from low attendance (boring and unsuccessful raids), or 0 attendance (when RLs didn't do it). If I understand correctly, if all of those raids had extremely good attendance (with the snowball effects it would cause), they wouldn't be so bad? Do you think that effect would eventually be kickstarted if we had only ONE weekly raid, making it special/important, if we purged out the boredom by varying the activity, as well as most importantly figuring out which time is our highest pull possible...? I dunno. But if I knew for certain that at THIS time THIS day WG will ALWAYS be out, I'd clear out my schedule for the year to be always there... -------------------- London RL Meeting attendee - Paris RL meeting attendee Joined WG in October 2005 - Original DG - Ex-Raid Leader Proud Council Member from October 21st 2007 to May 19th 2008 | ||||||
Posted: January 19, 2010 10:15 pm | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Gorgemaster Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 9840 Member No.: 3 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 540 | I think if the current raid leaders do not wish to host many spontaneous raids then we really HAVE to resort back to fixed time raids. It will , as others have said, be very helpful for new applicants, + all the pros above  Yes there are cons, and if they're not working we can just as easily remove them again as implement them. ~George --------------------    | ||||||
Posted: January 19, 2010 10:57 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Billy|Gilli Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1545 Member No.: 1451 Joined: November 9, 2008 Total Events Attended: 91 |
DO SUMSIN BOWTS IT DEN YOUS A CANCEL! -------------------- | ||||||
Posted: January 20, 2010 02:42 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Mmangler Group: Emeritus Posts: 1595 Member No.: 1580 Joined: December 24, 2008 Total Events Attended: 165 | Have you ever though about setting up raids around a core group. There are a number of you that really like raids and are really good at it. Why do you not get together and establish a tentative date and time and then invite others to join you. For me week days are difficult because a lot of the time I travel and I am at the mercy of a wireless connection, which in my experience is really bad but sometimes its ok. -------------------- | ||||||
Posted: January 20, 2010 03:29 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Snowzak Group: Emeritus Posts: 1193 Member No.: 5 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67 |
A while ago we had "sectors". The wilderness sector was promising but still mutating when DDay occurred (the end of what was arguably WG's prime). It's kind of taboo as it caused the worst division ever known to WG, and something similar would probably face a Lordy veto. -------------------- London RL Meeting attendee - Paris RL meeting attendee Joined WG in October 2005 - Original DG - Ex-Raid Leader Proud Council Member from October 21st 2007 to May 19th 2008 | ||||||
Posted: January 20, 2010 12:49 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 | Sectors would cause problems, but Vephyrus suggestion of those wanting to raid to hang out in #wgwilderness doesn't. There are ways around dividing the clan and still knowing who will go out at a moments notice. Start building on that. Complaining is not going to help as much as action. You are the guardians, you are the clan, take it up and go with the fact that you love pvp. You are not being stopped from raiding together. Start recruitment and get more members that will do the pvp that you want to have going on. Look to the future. Keep trying and don't give up til you have the active members you need to get the pvp turned around. I'm here to help with all that I can. It can't just be the desire that gets us there, everyone needs to take responsibility and move ahead. Gene has given "you" an opportunity to win a membership card for RS for three months. Don't waste his generosity and gift to us. Start recruiting. Rachy -------------------- Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~ | ||||||
Weekly raid(s), Reinstate, Y/N ?
Pages: (2) [1] 2