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Posted: February 12, 2011 04:29 pm  | |||||||||
      IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129    | Tabula rasa is latin for "blank slate". It is usually used to describe two phenomena. Firstly, that when we are born, our brains are without any content, and eventually are filled through experience. Second, for when we wish to start anew, and clean the records. In this case, tabula rasa will be relevant in both ways. Just something to think about as you read these words. Apologies in advance for the heavy reading, but it's important. The leadership will assume that in one week's time, every member will know all the information from this topic. If you don't know about the new rules, requirements, or structural changes, it is YOUR fault! When a new member joins the community, they enter with a blank slate. Their experiences will shape how they behave in WG. I guess I'll cut to the chase. Our community has been declining for the last three years or so. When a new member joins the clan, what will they learn? They see open fighting and talk behind peoples' backs, and they see this as commonplace and therefore acceptable, and the cycle is reciprocated. At what stage did you, the reader, find it acceptable to flame, even in retaliation? Because everyone else did it? Fights are breaking out more regularly (eg. Keanu), gossip and malicious rumours are being spread (eg. Elize), and members are being generally disliked (eg. Bgpgraebner). We'll touch on that last issue in some more details shortly. You are not required to like anybody, but we have formed an elitist culture whereby if someone doesn't fit our mold, or doesn't act the way we want, we outcast them. This cycle has to end. Bgp is a great member. He's active, loves to chat, and I really respect the guy. What's his problem? He's a 14-year-old in a clan that's 18+. And we don't have the fucking courtesy to let him be a typical 14-year-old. I'm on Teamspeak and we're having an event. I ask to invite Bgp, and then EVERYONE with a mic and a few without start whining. You can't get past his youthful nature, laughing inappropriately, a few awkward statements, asking lots of questions. This is the behaviour you'd expect from someone his age and we were all like that.
An even more memorable drama was Keanu. He was a prick at times. We know this. And I don't need to mention numerous character flaws that eventually led to his leaving. Rachel and I worked hard to change him, but he wouldn't, because he stopped loving WG. They kept picking on him, telling him to go train, or bringing up his DDS on raids, running away from a DM. As much as he tried to change, the image of him was formed and stuck. He could not shake free of it and so he acted up some more, leading to his demise.
Justin was a really nice guy for the majority of his time in WG. In the last few months, things turned sour because he broke up with his girlfriend and had to fight for custody of his daughter. He got kicked out of home, didn't have a job for a while... his life was full of stress. He snapped once or twice. Were we tolerant? Some of us were, others were not. We couldn't accept the fact that he was having a bad day. Well, he just got more sour. I could have used a number of people for this analogy but Justin's one was particularly exaggerated. Mutiny is a bannable offense, but he was a good man and friend for many years. He wasn't thinking straight. If I can offer forgiveness to someone who tried to dethrone me, surely other matters would seem trivial
Last example. It was just a public IRC conversation. Two clan members you didn't know each other very well joined in. It was a debate over GE prices. One of them just said "smd", and that's how the fight began. One saw it as a passing comment that meant almost nothing, the other saw it as an insult. The two became enemies.
_____________________________________ Across the board, I'm seeing bitching about people. IRL Meeting in Australia, bitching about certain guys. Leadership meeting on Teamspeak, talking badly about certain members. Nobody is perfect. You're not supposed to like everyone, but you can't choose your family. Most of us are adults. We should know how to handle disagreements. I'm not going to lie... running the community is getting harder and harder as WG ages. A clan of young adults is much harder to run. Adults are less forgiving, less impressionable, and have too much pride to defend. Think of a piece of clay. When it's fresh, you can easily remove any imperfections and change it into something you want. As it ages, it hardens and becomes much harder to change. So it is with adults. When two adults fight, it's so much harder to come to a resolution. They find it easier to ignore each other and are happy to remain enemies. Oh and another thing. The default response to things in WG is trolling. Not just fun stuff, but on topics, "cool story bro" and shit little one-liners tell them you don't really care. I call it passive-aggressive behaviour. There's no respect between members any more. The natural tendency to dismiss stuff has got to go. A more open air of encouragement needs to replace it. If you're part of this problem, don't feel too bad. It's you and about 30 others. I'll be checking the forums for signs of this. It's not warnable but I'll let you know that you're being too negative and need to lift your outlook. We arrive at the first change... TABULA RASA - A CLEAN SLATE All accounts have all warn levels removed. Everyone gets to start afresh and try to be outstanding members. All grudges are dropped. Hold nothing against a member for the past. If you cannot do this, you lack the maturity for this fine community. I'm not compromising on this. NOTHING is to be held against any members unless it is from the present. This is the time for new beginnings. Whoever you hate (most people hate someone in WG) - it's time to let go. I know I'm asking for a lot. Deal with it. We can't rebuild the community with grudge wars in every corner. The new rule that accompanies this change: All flaming will be promptly punished, regardless of who started it. If you are flaming to defend your pride, you will be punished equally, even if you didn't start it. If someone insults you, it is NEVER an acceptable response to fight back. If you can't handle that rule, please leave. It would hurt a lot if 20 of you left, but I'd rather see that than continue with all the fighting, which in comparison is far more painful. A reminder that warn levels don't mean suspensions any more. You get 5 warn levels then are kicked. We only suspend if you're posing an immediate threat to members and need some time to cool off. Don't forget in addition to community warns, you also get warns for not signing up to the most important events and skipping things. We will pledge to look at warn logs more frequently and remove them where appropriate, hopefully without you needing to ask, but there is NO SET TIME for them to be removed. It is up to our discretion as to when you've learned their removal with good behaviour. A rise in activity will almost instantly take away warn levels for non-signs-ups and such. Warns for fighting might take longer to go away. There is one other change I want to discuss... REQUIREMENT RAISE This is part of the Tabula Rasa topic for one important reason. The requirement raise is to help the community. It was pointed out to me that WG members have little enough in common. We have such disparity between low levels and high levels, it does contribute toward community conflict. Now, it saddens me that people can't get along with those who don't know the game as well... and don't have the patience to help them learn, but the benefits are now outweighing the costs. The new requirements: 105 F2P combat by March 14th 110 F2P combat by April 11th For years and years, I've delayed this change because of its negative impact on recruitment, but there are now enough high level players in Runescape for this not to be an issue. At 100, I feel some players are just too inexperienced. All members need to train to meet this new benchmark. If you have difficulties, let me know and we'll work something out. And since they are training, the rest of us (the majority) should make the effort to train as well. It would be very helpful. THERE IS A FLIPSIDE TO THE RAISE. READ CAREFULLY. I am introducing a very, very radical idea to clanning. I believe we'll be one of the first clans, if not the first, to do it. Dynamic requirements. The advertised requirement will be 110 F2P combat. We'll only seek out players of that level... BUT We will allow 100+ members in on certain conditions. Firstly they have to be willing to train to meet the requirements over an agreed amount of time. This could be anything between a month and three months, depending on their level. Second, they have to have decent PKing skills already, and the required armour sets. Finally, they must be referred. I might loosen the rules on recruits below 110 eventually but we'll trial this system for a little bit. Let me ask you what the reason for requirements is... requirements are there so that everyone in this clan is competent enough to PK. Levels are a decent indicator but there are a number of low levels who are very good at PKing. Not many, but if we find one we shouldn't turn them down. The idea of dynamic requirements is not fully set so you have time to discuss the changes with me, but I am pretty set on the requirement raise and tabula rasa. _____________________________ Wow, that took a long time to write. I had a video filmed and everything but it vanished. So I've just been typing for an hour. Fml. Post some detailed comments below just to show me you appreciate the effort I'm putting in. No shitty 3 word responses please. --------------------  | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:38 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Gorgemaster Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 9840 Member No.: 3 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 540 | I really like the ideas mentioned above. The concept of a clean slate is something that I have my doubts will work unless EVERY SINGLE MEMBER participates and doesn't hold grudges. Hopefully this will be a chance to re-open communications with people that you have long stopped talking to... I myself would love to get back in touch with some people I used to call friends... The requirements raise.... well Gene i really don't know what I think about them. I've been here for almost 4 years now and so have seen many increases and decreases in our requirements and the consequent advantages and disadvantages that they bring. I do share your concern that those under lvl 105-110 do pose a problem when PK'ing, especially in the new wilderness, so maybe this will be for the best. The only obvious downside is that it will affect current WG members, who I hope will be able to train up quickly enough, i'm sure they will, and also our recruits... meh we can get over all that. I do like the idea that we can still have 100 f2p cmb recruits though, i wonder if this will work out for us, we've never done it before i believe (?).. Edit: I forgot to say, if anyone below 110 F2P Combat does need any help in getting up to the new reqs, all you have to do is ask and I will offer my help in whatever way I can, all except training your actual account for you. If you need a buddy to train with, or ideas about where to train etc, just ask!  --------------------    | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:39 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Garrett_xD Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 1316 Member No.: 2159 Joined: November 28, 2009 Total Events Attended: 132 | Fighting in wg has become a problem and ruins our community, im glad u have created a system for it. The members that do fight/flame in wg most likely wont stop though, and will have a high warn level for most of there time in wg. I think it is sad to see emeritus earn warn levels, if you are active enough to earn warn levels, you are active enough to not be emeritus and be a full on member. --------------------  | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:41 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Darth Group: Ex-Member Posts: 4601 Member No.: 838 Joined: June 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 558 | The clean slate idea is absolutely brilliant. I know I'm a major part of all the trolling and stuff that goes on with certain members, and it'll be difficult to change, but if everyone works on this together, it'll surely be successful. The low quality posts I've seen from members, especially ELITE GUARDIANS, is really horrible. It's about time WG finally gets a referendum like this. Goes to everyone. Get your shit together, or get out. Requirement raise, YESSSSSSSSSSSS OH MY GOD YES. Yes. I'm glad that it's going to go up to 110. People that are level 110+ are usually always better stocked, better trained(Not only in combat, but Runescape knowledge in general), and overall better members. It's been too long for change like this to happen. Thank you. --------------------  | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:42 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Kung_man149 Group: Higher Guardian Posts: 1054 Member No.: 2111 Joined: October 30, 2009 Total Events Attended: 79 | Gene, I think this is a very good topic especially about all grudges being dropped. However I don't think the second part of it is all that good I mean, a few weeks time for 110? Some of us don't play that often or are limited in our time of play. -------------------- Taken❒ Single❒ Mad✔ <+Mark``> i think the brothers GF is going into labour <+Mark``> I WANNA WATCH YU-GI-OH   | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:44 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Darth Group: Ex-Member Posts: 4601 Member No.: 838 Joined: June 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 558 |
Eight weeks and two days to train up to level 110 combat. If you can't get 4 combat levels in two months, you are NOT active enough to be in WG. -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:45 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Kung_man149 Group: Higher Guardian Posts: 1054 Member No.: 2111 Joined: October 30, 2009 Total Events Attended: 79 |
What have I told you before Kyle? I'm on limited time like 99% of the time. -------------------- Taken❒ Single❒ Mad✔ <+Mark``> i think the brothers GF is going into labour <+Mark``> I WANNA WATCH YU-GI-OH | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:46 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129 | Oh yeah Kyle that reminds me of another thing. Because WG is so old that's a problem. We've all got our groups of friends and because WG members are so established, new members will find it harder to get into those groups. Spend time reaching out to make a friend you wouldn't expect to make. _______________________ In my case, I'm really only close with the Aussie unit and a sprinkling of old school members. Even guys I consider to be friends... Randy, DZ, Kyle... a shitload of old schoolers... We hardly speak. There's been very little friendship building happening for me outside the Aussie unit except during tinychat moments or isketch moments. Maybe we should have more of those. -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:46 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Darth Group: Ex-Member Posts: 4601 Member No.: 838 Joined: June 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 558 | Then if you can't commit that much time to WG, ex-member is the place for you. -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:47 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Kung_man149 Group: Higher Guardian Posts: 1054 Member No.: 2111 Joined: October 30, 2009 Total Events Attended: 79 |
If you're trying to start something Kyle, it's not going to work. Drop it. You know well enough that when I get online I train my ass off to make everyone happy and either way, I still get the "Keanu" treatment. -------------------- Taken❒ Single❒ Mad✔ <+Mark``> i think the brothers GF is going into labour <+Mark``> I WANNA WATCH YU-GI-OH | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:47 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129 | Or perhaps Kyle, being a troll on an anti-trolling topic isn't such a good idea. EDIT: Look for the intention behind the words. Alain wants to but can't. Let's *not* do on a witch hunt, and instead offer a solution. Perhaps have him loan the account, or simply say "try with as much time as you can and we'll see how you go and if you can't make it there in time, perhaps a short extension, as long as we can see you're trying" Anyone of those solutions would have been better than the subtle hint at asking him to leave. -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:48 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Garrett_xD Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 1316 Member No.: 2159 Joined: November 28, 2009 Total Events Attended: 132 | nvm -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:49 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Kung_man149 Group: Higher Guardian Posts: 1054 Member No.: 2111 Joined: October 30, 2009 Total Events Attended: 79 |
He's not on a limited time limit as bad as I am. -------------------- Taken❒ Single❒ Mad✔ <+Mark``> i think the brothers GF is going into labour <+Mark``> I WANNA WATCH YU-GI-OH | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:49 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Darth Group: Ex-Member Posts: 4601 Member No.: 838 Joined: June 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 558 | I'm not trying to troll, just being 100% blunt. Sorry. -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:52 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Kung_man149 Group: Higher Guardian Posts: 1054 Member No.: 2111 Joined: October 30, 2009 Total Events Attended: 79 |
Alright, I'll be perfectly blunt too. You know damn well I train whenever I'm online I even show you my track gain after I'm done. And you still persist with this shit and it's pissing me off. I'm sorry if you don't like it Kyle but it's the truth. -------------------- Taken❒ Single❒ Mad✔ <+Mark``> i think the brothers GF is going into labour <+Mark``> I WANNA WATCH YU-GI-OH | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:52 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Indivi2you Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 5361 Member No.: 43 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 623 | This Dynamic Requirments you say we may be the first to input it... Although, it sounds much like an FA system. To see if they have the necessary skills to raid/war, and are willing to train up to the normal lvl of 105/110 f2p. Also, this clan is not 18+. You cannot say that. Just because nearly every Aussie is 18+, doesn't mean the clan is. Gene, you know that even I am not 18. So when you make posts like this saying that we need to mature, it won't happen. I'm starving to eat, so I'll add in the rest of my 2 cents later. Side note, my birthday is March 14th :> -------------------- The First, The Last, and the Only ~FLO Never say never, because limits, like fears, are often just an illusion. ~Michael Jordan      | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:53 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129 | Oh and another thing. The truth can also be a flame. "I was just speaking the truth" is not an acceptable excuse. Not picking on you here Kyle, I'm saying this generally to WG. How you present the truth is important. Saying "you're fat" to a fat person is the truth. Would you say it just because it's the truth? -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:54 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: [Randy] Group: Raid Leader Posts: 5065 Member No.: 16 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 499 | Highers and Elites should start hosting events and inviting new members (and definitely your mentees). And being completely honest, some applications should really start being declined based on effort. Most of the inactives and trolls can easily be spotted from their intros and apps. Clean slate - meh, it would be nice, but I doubt some people loose grudges because Lordy says the magical words. Requirements - Yes. Just yes. --------------------   | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:59 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129 |
I realise this poll was a while ago, but I did the research and I don't think the average age has changed much. And the way you said it "Also, this clan is not 18+. You cannot say that." with such finality and conviction just adds a rough edge to it. Randy, as for people not letting go of grudges, they need to announcementselves now. Are you hanging onto any? -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 04:59 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Kat Group: Event Leader Posts: 1085 Member No.: 2257 Joined: April 30, 2010 Total Events Attended: 223 | I definatly agree to everything you said Lordy. We should all be treating each other with more respect. One girl left because of how immature everyone was acting and treating her (aka. sandwich and get in the kitchen jokes), and she had just joined. We shouldn't be fighting in public places like irc, ts, or in clan chats. I believe when i first joined, i never knew who fought. i didn't see any of it and it seemed like everyone got along so well! And i do feel like we should be forgiving instead of pushing the arguments to everyone's limits. The Requirements are a very good idea. Its hard on members to try and get the lower levels to a pvp event because of no pvp experience. Especially when you get them to come and they get rushed by lower levels and die because we cant help them. Idk if you thought about this but shouldnt there be a required mage level in WG, half the time on pvp events no one is Tbing (which is what gets us kills) because there mage level isnt high enough. Or they just dont want to idk. Just saying. lol. --------------------   | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 05:04 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129 | And one last thing... Saying "I doubt people will clean the slate" is only inviting people to do just that. You EXPECT grudges to be held, and if you expect it, people will do it. It's erasing my hard work and I don't like it one bit, so stop expecting it. Anyone who holds onto a grudge is defying my personal expectations. -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 05:23 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Rodney75 Group: Council Posts: 1683 Member No.: 2109 Joined: October 29, 2009 Total Events Attended: 154 | I don't have much to say on all this, so I will keep it short. Agree with everything, clean slates, requirement rises (love the dynamic approach) and the whole community re-work. I was seriously getting a little annoyed with it all - considering that maybe WG had just moved to far for me to enjoy it. But now I see it's not just me noticing it all - and efforts are being made for improvements - i'm sure it will improve (obviously taking a little bit of time). But ultimately, other than recruitment - I don't think much applies to me. I have my own personal views on people, and I generally don't let it known at all. I really didn't like all the 'Keanu jokes' - and still don't appreciate how they are still occurring on teamspeak during raids when he's LEFT already. Get over it. Same applies to the other members - it just seems some people are 'out' to get people, because it's always the same few who pick on other members. --------------------  | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 05:32 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: DZ Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 2991 Member No.: 18 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 238 | I've noticed the 'decline' of the community for a while now, hell I've probably helped contribute to it at some times but I'm glad that we are attempting to make things right again. Even though it may be difficult I'm sure we can all mature up and make a few sacrifices for the good of the clan. I've been wanting to see a requirement raise forever now... lets hope that this one will actually last and succeed. To current members under the requirements, just do your best to train up. That's all we can ask of you. -------------------- Now back to the good part! | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 06:42 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Mickey Group: Emeritus Posts: 5305 Member No.: 48 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 282 | I'd also like to request a revamp of our trial system. Too many times have I seen someone graduate within a week or two and then go off and publicly flame other clans, or even start fights with other members. At that point it's easier for them to remain in the clan because the punishments for guardians isn't as hard as Trials. I'm not saying go all out and make our trial system as hard as RoT's, but atleast implement tougher requirements to graduate, and even a member vote. That way trials will only graduate if the members feel they deserve it. In the long run WG's image will be better protected because we won't have idiots giving us a bad name, and they won't have the chance to damage our community. I'll elaborate more when I have time if need be. I'm kind of in a rush atm. --------------------    | ||||||||
Posted: February 12, 2011 07:02 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Hitman Group: Ex-Member Posts: 126 Member No.: 774 Joined: June 6, 2008 Total Events Attended: 15 | good topic gene  i support what you said. -------------------- | ||||||||
Tabula Rasa, + requirement raise