The Wilderness Guardians

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IRC Nickname: Cory|Melchior
Group: Ex-Member
Posts: 240
Member No.: 527
Joined: April 25, 2008
Total Events Attended: 5

H'okay, so...
It's obvious things MUST get done. The clan is clearly split as far as warring goes. A few have said we should wait until the new PvP minigame comes out until we drastically change the clan around, however, I argue that waiting will only allow the problem to grow. We might not even make it to the update... knowing jagex's rapid speed as far as updates go. So, proposals must be done. Even if the idea seems bad at first, any idea is better than none.

So, lets see what we have so far.

1. Wars obviously cannot be mandatory.
This comes up from the fact that not everyone likes war. Also, not everyone wants to be forced to do war. Saying they are mandatory will just reduce morale. If someone doesn't wanna be there, but they still go, it will be apparent. The person will be negative, die, and not return. That just drops morale even more. You're better off having a solid group of people with high liking, than a larger group that are mixed.

2. Sectors failed.
The original concept of sectors was alright; it worked, and it allowed people to do what they want. This freedom was good, however, it divided the clan. Skillers seemingly are always on the short end of the stick, regardless of what percentage of the clan we make up.

3. Every idea needs to be taken into account, not just the ones considered from certain people. The best concept could come from the most unlikely person.

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So, With some thought, and actually listening to what OTHER people say, I've kinda combined some thoughts to come up with this:

-First, we need to allow people to do what they want. Forcing people is just gonna make the member count drop like flies. The people that want to war/pkri should be separated. Make a group of people; they can specialize in it, and be efficient. Anyone is of course welcome to attend a trip, but it won't be mandatory. Also, I think random wars shouldn't come up as often. If you only have a few hours of prep, it'll put pressure on the actual war team, and even more so, peer pressure on the non-war team. No, these will not be sectors. The war team will be on a list, and will be more accountable for the wars, however, they will still NOT be mandatory.

-Second, we need to get a active skiller in council. I don't care from what timezone, but someone who likes to skill more so than war. If they war too, that's fine, but someone who is dominant skiller. We all must have equal say, and anyone who skills will probably agree that we need someone who will actually take our side for a change, instead of take the side of the war.

-Third, we need someone, or a group of people who can clean up the forums on a regular basis. Create a moderator group for this just to do this stuff, because when it comes down to it, the content is the first things guest and new members alike will see. It impacts the clan as a whole. Lots of old topics should be purged, and we should make sure the topics that do stay are up to date.

-Fourth, focusing on applicants should be our top priority. If we have more members, this issue with warring wouldn't be so bad, as we'd have a larger turn out. No, we shouldn't just grab every noob we can and make them join... we should still go through the current application process, but getting numbers is important. Are we all satisfied with our current reqs? Ask yourself; they can be changed if we need them to be.

Like I said, these are just some things from a little thought. I request that everyone take a while and just reflect and see if they can come up with anything. If you don't like an idea, say why, and be specific. A good idea can be born from a bad idea, so if you think one of my ideas is dreadful, then by all means say it. Flaming shouldn't exist in this thread, nor any really. If you want to flame, pm me, we'll throw fists. Otherwise, I expect this to be clean, and intuitive.

As a final request, I urge council members to read this periodically. We members have ideas, and I think you owe it to us and yourselves, for the sake of WG, to check them out. Converse amongst yourselves, and bounce ideas back and fourth. We're a team, and we're a family, and we're gonna thrive...we just need the resolve to.

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Kingdom of Edgeville

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IRC Nickname: Jenny
Group: Emeritus
Posts: 1967
Member No.: 19
Joined: December 29, 2007
Total Events Attended: 56

I definitely agree with the moderation idea, I had suggested it to council about a month ago and was told it was not needed.
I think it is needed, now more than ever.

Warring is a skill, like any other.... People can learn to be good at it. It is simply a different aspect of the same game we all play. People who feel weak at a skill can practice, there are always people who can teach.

When WG first began there was just a clan, we did it all. We went warring and raiding and then we skilled to get better and to fellowship with each other.
We need to go back to basics I feel, we have tried the fancy things and they weren't the answer.
Attend events ,whether they are warring or skilling. We can only get stronger this way.

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IRC Nickname: Sithofwookie
Group: Ex-Member
Posts: 2842
Member No.: 815
Joined: June 11, 2008
Total Events Attended: 48

QUOTE

-Second, we need to get a active skiller in council. I don't care from what timezone, but someone who likes to skill more so than war. If they war too, that's fine, but someone who is dominant skiller. We all must have equal say, and anyone who skills will probably agree that we need someone who will actually take our side for a change, instead of take the side of the war.

Tabs!

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IRC Nickname: Mistah_Vince
Group: Ex-Member
Posts: 2235
Member No.: 233
Joined: February 14, 2008
Total Events Attended: 85

QUOTE (Ikahigapoopy)

1. Wars obviously cannot be mandatory.
This comes up from the fact that not everyone likes war. Also, not everyone wants to be forced to do war. Saying they are mandatory will just reduce morale. If someone doesn't wanna be there, but they still go, it will be apparent. The person will be negative, die, and not return. That just drops morale even more. You're better off having a solid group of people with high liking, than a larger group that are mixed.

I agree with you here. To some extent, at least. Honestly, I don't know what the solution has to be. Whether you think so or not, making a "list" or a "group" still divides the clan, such as the sectors did. It may not be as drastic, but it's still division nonetheless. Look at it from a math perspective. We can divide by 20 by 2 and get 10, which isn't that bad. Then we can divide it by 10 and get 2, which is something we're not trying to go for here. I think the overall thing we're trying to do though is to divide it by 1. (Yeah, math metaphor. And ironically, I suck at math.) And I do not mean no change. Because yes, 20/1 is still 20, but there's still a division. The outcome is the same though, therefore meaning it will have the smallest effect on what we have running now. And yes, I'm aware I totally made that difficult to understand. I must suck at this speaking thing.

QUOTE (Corynoob)

3. Every idea needs to be taken into account, not just the ones considered from certain people. The best concept could come from the most unlikely person.

DEFINITELY agree with you here. I don't care who you are. You need to listen to other people's opinions. Because if you don't, you will get nowhere.

QUOTE (Mr. Big Businessman)

Also, I think random wars shouldn't come up as often.

What you don't realize here is that people ASK for these wars. They're not TOTALLY random. Never does the Council just sit down and say "Hm, I want to war, so I'm going to force the entirety of WG to war." When these random wars do occur, they're requested by a member and then the Council then asks if they were to make a war in x amount of time, how many people would come. Depending on the response, the Council Member will carry out the request, or deny it. They're never TOTALLY random.

QUOTE (Circuit City Employee)

-Second, we need to get a active skiller in council. I don't care from what timezone, but someone who likes to skill more so than war. If they war too, that's fine, but someone who is dominant skiller. We all must have equal say, and anyone who skills will probably agree that we need someone who will actually take our side for a change, instead of take the side of the war.

This is true, the majority of the Council is total war-based. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but when it comes time for that decision of "Who skipped a war, and should they be punished?" it's not really fair if the entirety of the Council thinks "Oh, they were just fucking cutting trees and they skipped a war. *Warning Level*"

Though, on a different note, I do think we need an American Council Member. (Yes, I'm sticking to this whether certain people want me to or not.

QUOTE (99 Prayerwhore)

-Third, we need someone, or a group of people who can clean up the forums on a regular basis.

Though this is pretty needed, it would be a rough job honestly. With the deletion of extremely old accounts comes the bumping of extremely old topics created by those accounts. Currently, if I were to take a guess...on the entirety of the forums, there's 50+ of these topics on the first pages of sections. Sometimes it just can't be helped. =\

QUOTE (Pnsfase)

-Fourth, focusing on applicants should be our top priority. If we have more members, this issue with warring wouldn't be so bad, as we'd have a larger turn out.

This is true, but only to some extent. It depends where these members come from. If you're sitting around cutting Yew Trees, and you see a group of people you'd think you'd like to recruit, and you do so, these people probably won't be extremely War Orientated. Though, people do have different interests, so it's a possibility. I definitely agree that we need more members and more activity. Just no more trash members like we've had in the past. (Which I will not name names of.)

QUOTE (Dudewhousedtohaveawsomelonghairbutthengotitcut)

As a final request, I urge council members to read this periodically. We members have ideas, and I think you owe it to us and yourselves, for the sake of WG, to check them out.

Do it. He's right.

Oh, and on another note.

QUOTE (Sithofwookie)

QUOTE (Ikahigurashi)

-Second, we need to get a active skiller in council. I don't care from what timezone, but someone who likes to skill more so than war. If they war too, that's fine, but someone who is dominant skiller. We all must have equal say, and anyone who skills will probably agree that we need someone who will actually take our side for a change, instead of take the side of the war.

Tabs!

Tabs already said she didn't want to be Council because of the overwhelming stress. Kthx.

Now that I've made probably the biggest post of my life, I will leave.

This is Vince, over and out.

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IRC Nickname: Sithofwookie
Group: Ex-Member
Posts: 2842
Member No.: 815
Joined: June 11, 2008
Total Events Attended: 48

I guess I missed it when she said that. =/

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IRC Nickname: Cory|Melchior
Group: Ex-Member
Posts: 240
Member No.: 527
Joined: April 25, 2008
Total Events Attended: 5

QUOTE (PeanutButterPlayer9)

I agree with you here. To some extent, at least. Honestly, I don't know what the solution has to be. Whether you think so or not, making a "list" or a "group" still divides the clan, such as the sectors did. It may not be as drastic, but it's still division nonetheless. Look at it from a math perspective. We can divide by 20 by 2 and get 10, which isn't that bad. Then we can divide it by 10 and get 2, which is something we're not trying to go for here. I think the overall thing we're trying to do though is to divide it by 1. (Yeah, math metaphor. And ironically, I suck at math.) And I do not mean no change. Because yes, 20/1 is still 20, but there's still a division. The outcome is the same though, therefore meaning it will have the smallest effect on what we have running now. And yes, I'm aware I totally made that difficult to understand. I must suck at this speaking thing.

True, you could look at it as a division. However, the way I invision it, it's just a statement saying "these people are the ones who enjoy warring/pkri/pvp, and they will be our core fighters." Like I said, skillers will still be welcome, and in most cases highly encouraged for optimal numbers, but it will be on their own accord, which will help the morale overall.

QUOTE (V for Vincetta)

What you don't realize here is that people ASK for these wars. They're not TOTALLY random. Never does the Council just sit down and say "Hm, I want to war, so I'm going to force the entirety of WG to war." When these random wars do occur, they're requested by a member and then the Council then asks if they were to make a war in x amount of time, how many people would come. Depending on the response, the Council Member will carry out the request, or deny it. They're never TOTALLY random.

Yeah, the members do ask for them, but really we could just as easily schedule them a week in advance and attend them. No one will EVER be satisfied with the amount of wars. There are either to many, or not enough. If we schedule them a week in advance, or even a few days, we could get closer to the happy medium. Some people miss those hour-advance wars, and are bummed about it because they simply didn't know. Letting everyone know well in advance will help. So, If members want more wars, have the higher-ups make them in advance. If it's more stressful for them, then get even more people to do it; flatten the workload if need be.

QUOTE (Mr.Suckysuckybigcucky)

Though this is pretty needed, it would be a rough job honestly. With the deletion of extremely old accounts comes the bumping of extremely old topics created by those accounts. Currently, if I were to take a guess...on the entirety of the forums, there's 50+ of these topics on the first pages of sections. Sometimes it just can't be helped. =\

We could do like a monthly vote for the people who are interested in the job. Anyone who wants in can volunteer, people will vote on a few, and they can be forum mods (not irc), simply to clean up the forum. Mod Power abuse will result in de-ranking of the position. Then after a month, new people can get in on it, and the current mods could re-volunteer. Get like 2 or 3 people a month. Communication is the key to success, and communication is certainly easier with neater forums.

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Kingdom of Edgeville

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IRC Nickname: Mistah_Vince
Group: Ex-Member
Posts: 2235
Member No.: 233
Joined: February 14, 2008
Total Events Attended: 85

QUOTE (Ikahigurashi @ September 29, 2008 08:12 pm)

QUOTE (Mr.Suckysuckybigcucky)

Though this is pretty needed, it would be a rough job honestly. With the deletion of extremely old accounts comes the bumping of extremely old topics created by those accounts. Currently, if I were to take a guess...on the entirety of the forums, there's 50+ of these topics on the first pages of sections. Sometimes it just can't be helped. =\

We could do like a monthly vote for the people who are interested in the job. Anyone who wants in can volunteer, people will vote on a few, and they can be forum mods (not irc), simply to clean up the forum. Mod Power abuse will result in de-ranking of the position. Then after a month, new people can get in on it, and the current mods could re-volunteer. Get like 2 or 3 people a month. Communication is the key to success, and communication is certainly easier with neater forums.

Yeah, I like that idea. It could work out nicely. But I doubt there would be many who would volunteer.

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IRC Nickname: Cory|Melchior
Group: Ex-Member
Posts: 240
Member No.: 527
Joined: April 25, 2008
Total Events Attended: 5

QUOTE (Pbplayer9 @ September 29, 2008 08:14 pm)

QUOTE (Ikahigurashi @ September 29, 2008 08:12 pm)

QUOTE (Mr.Suckysuckybigcucky)

Though this is pretty needed, it would be a rough job honestly. With the deletion of extremely old accounts comes the bumping of extremely old topics created by those accounts. Currently, if I were to take a guess...on the entirety of the forums, there's 50+ of these topics on the first pages of sections. Sometimes it just can't be helped. =\

We could do like a monthly vote for the people who are interested in the job. Anyone who wants in can volunteer, people will vote on a few, and they can be forum mods (not irc), simply to clean up the forum. Mod Power abuse will result in de-ranking of the position. Then after a month, new people can get in on it, and the current mods could re-volunteer. Get like 2 or 3 people a month. Communication is the key to success, and communication is certainly easier with neater forums.

Yeah, I like that idea. It could work out nicely. But I doubt there would be many who would volunteer.

I certainly would If I thought it would help the clan...which I do...therefore I would...

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Kingdom of Edgeville

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IRC Nickname: Darth
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Total Events Attended: 558

I honestly don't know what to say. I agree with all of this. Definitely need a skiller council member, though.

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IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2
Group: Emeritus
Posts: 3087
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Joined: January 25, 2008
Total Events Attended: 8

I could help with the moderation thing. That's something I can help out with that I can do anytime, unlike events which never ever fit with my schedule.

I haven't had hardly anything to do at NomadGaming except for random spam posts for months.

Instead of just deleting them though, since you never know when someone might come back to try and find something they could have posted months ago, we could stuff them all in a dump-bin forum when they pop-up. They'll still be around just not in the way.

So yeah, if the need is there I can help with it, or w/e.

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IRC Nickname: Cory|Melchior
Group: Ex-Member
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Joined: April 25, 2008
Total Events Attended: 5

QUOTE (Eregion2 @ September 29, 2008 09:43 pm)

I could help with the moderation thing. That's something I can help out with that I can do anytime, unlike events which never ever fit with my schedule.

I haven't had hardly anything to do at NomadGaming except for random spam posts for months.

Instead of just deleting them though, since you never know when someone might come back to try and find something they could have posted months ago, we could stuff them all in a dump-bin forum when they pop-up. They'll still be around just not in the way.

So yeah, if the need is there I can help with it, or w/e.

Yeah, agreed. Recycling bin ftw. (it rhymes if you say "for the win")...
I think this one was one of the simpler issues/solutions out of the bunch

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Kingdom of Edgeville

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About skilling versus warring by time:

Skills:
-Skill of the Week (SOTW) - 100k experience ~ 2 hour minimum
-various skill related events - Tog maybe, SOTW events ~ 1 hour minimum

Warring:
- 1 war per week - prep time/warring time ~ 1.5-2 hours

This is GUARANTEED time to each, not including any other events that may occur. So I fail to see how skills are so ignored. Personally, I think skillers are like actors, they just bitch about everything, honestly this really pisses me off. It is ALWAYS assumed warring is getting all the attention, it gets more publicity yes but not more time.

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July 5, 2007 - June 27, 2011

IRC Nickname: Cory|Melchior
Group: Ex-Member
Posts: 240
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Joined: April 25, 2008
Total Events Attended: 5

QUOTE (Quikdrawjoe @ September 29, 2008 10:04 pm)

About skilling versus warring by time:

Skills:
-Skill of the Week (SOTW) - 100k experience ~ 2 hour minimum
-various skill related events - Tog maybe, SOTW events ~ 1 hour minimum

Warring:
- 1 war per week - prep time/warring time ~ 1.5-2 hours

This is GUARANTEED time to each, not including any other events that may occur. So I fail to see how skills are so ignored. Personally, I think skillers are like actors, they just bitch about everything, honestly this really pisses me off. It is ALWAYS assumed warring is getting all the attention, it gets more publicity yes but not more time.

Sorry, I guess I forgot to mention the no flaming part in the first post. Really dude, it doesn't help the flow of ideas here...but, I accept your opinion.

However, the skillers do not chew out the war people. We just attend the events because we want fun, not because we're pressured into them.

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Kingdom of Edgeville

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IRC Nickname: Geofff
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Joined: May 12, 2008
Total Events Attended: 96

QUOTE

1. Wars obviously cannot be mandatory.
This comes up from the fact that not everyone likes war. Also, not everyone wants to be forced to do war. Saying they are mandatory will just reduce morale. If someone doesn't wanna be there, but they still go, it will be apparent. The person will be negative, die, and not return. That just drops morale even more. You're better off having a solid group of people with high liking, than a larger group that are mixed.

That's our problem right now. If we did have a group of 'warring' people we would be bringing 15-20 people to full outs. That lowers morale even more, losing every war we have. Why do the 'skillers' have to be so selfish and not give a damn about helping Wg out where it most needs it?

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IRC Nickname: rachellove
Group: Council
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Joined: January 31, 2008
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QUOTE (Geoff_Bland @ September 30, 2008 01:31 am)

QUOTE

1. Wars obviously cannot be mandatory.
This comes up from the fact that not everyone likes war. Also, not everyone wants to be forced to do war. Saying they are mandatory will just reduce morale. If someone doesn't wanna be there, but they still go, it will be apparent. The person will be negative, die, and not return. That just drops morale even more. You're better off having a solid group of people with high liking, than a larger group that are mixed.

That's our problem right now. If we did have a group of 'warring' people we would be bringing 15-20 people to full outs. That lowers morale even more, losing every war we have. Why do the 'skillers' have to be so selfish and not give a damn about helping Wg out where it most needs it?

Joel visit the hall of shame and read why some of those people are there. Stop flame baiting on this thread.

I agree with alot of the ideas suggusted on here. I would be willing to help with Wayne on the forum moderation.

I disagree with the comment on where to find our recruits at. I've recruited some nice people and I know I met everyone at a skilling place. When your doing skills you have more time to chat and get to know people. Not as worried about the monsters killing you. I met my two best friends Vephyrus and Dieyou at skilling places. Even war kind of people skill to work on their total lvls or to get better for their wars.

I would suggust we have a lil recruiting contest til the beginning of the year. You recruit members you feel will be good. You get +2 for anyone that joins and stays member for 40 days. You get +1 for an application to be a guardian. You get -1 for anyone that only intros and doesn't join. It would be competitive and the recruits would be screened more closely by the people asking them to join. I have like 5 or 6 lvl 130s as friends that would not make good WG, so I don't ask them. I'm cautious who I ask to join tbh. Maybe assign a member to run this contest.

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Thank you Garrett and Dallar.
“The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems
is the day you have stopped leading them.
They have either lost confidence that you can help them
or concluded that you do not care.
Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~

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IRC Nickname: Mike|Sonix
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QUOTE (Geoff_Bland @ September 30, 2008 06:31 am)

QUOTE

1. Wars obviously cannot be mandatory.
This comes up from the fact that not everyone likes war. Also, not everyone wants to be forced to do war. Saying they are mandatory will just reduce morale. If someone doesn't wanna be there, but they still go, it will be apparent. The person will be negative, die, and not return. That just drops morale even more. You're better off having a solid group of people with high liking, than a larger group that are mixed.

That's our problem right now. If we did have a group of 'warring' people we would be bringing 15-20 people to full outs. That lowers morale even more, losing every war we have. Why do the 'skillers' have to be so selfish and not give a damn about helping Wg out where it most needs it?

I never joined this clan to war, and I think I speak for 80% of our skillers when I say that.

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IRC Nickname: Tnuac
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Total Events Attended: 58

You have some good ideas there Ikah. I'll just add a few things

Skiller in council - Yes, we do. Evil is a keen skiller and in council, but he often feels overshadowed, like the council is too war-based. Maybe the next council should have more emphasis on skills.

Mods - Yes, more mods would help. Its important not to get too many, and I think event leaders have powers to mod? Event leaders and possibly raid leaders should have some time inbetween events to get some modding done, it just depends how much needs doing.

Applicants

QUOTE

If we have more members, this issue with warring wouldn't be so bad, as we'd have a larger turn out.

I agree bringing fresh people in and having larger numbers will help make it more exciting, but number of people is just one aspect. You could have 150 members and bring 20 to a PK trip. The emphasis on activity has to still be there, and it can often be forgotten under a large recruitment tactic.

Wars - Your idea of a warring list coincides with mine. However, there is a difference. You say that people on the warring list should make every effort to attend wars, whereas people not on the list can still come. In principal, it sounds like a good idea, but the problem is, you can't just give the clan you are warring the warring list in that case, because you're going to pull extra people not on that list. When we're finding clans to war, we have to provide a list of everyone that can possibly attend the war.

I wondered about only allowing people on the list to attend miniwars and pk run-ins, while including the whole clan in full-out wars (the week prep ones). Of course, as evil pointed out, because we are wide in timezones, it may be an unfair advantage on us, as single-timezoned clans will have a similar ML but be able to pull a lot more.

QUOTE

That's our problem right now. If we did have a group of 'warring' people we would be bringing 15-20 people to full outs.

Uhh, no..We have more than 20 people who like warring. Skilling is the majority, not warring. The idea of a warring list is cutting out who doesn't want to come, therefore the numbers will be pretty much unaffected. But, you get a higher % of your ML, which is good for competing. Besides, I would say full-outs (long preps) should include the whole clan, not just the list.

QUOTE

I would suggust we have a lil recruiting contest til the beginning of the year. You recruit members you feel will be good. You get +2 for anyone that joins and stays member for 40 days. You get +1 for an application to be a guardian. You get -1 for anyone that only intros and doesn't join. It would be competitive and the recruits would be screened more closely by the people asking them to join. I have like 5 or 6 lvl 130s as friends that would not make good WG, so I don't ask them. I'm cautious who I ask to join tbh. Maybe assign a member to run this contest.

Good idea rach, a bit of fun competition can go a long way in recruitment.

And yes, there are PLENTY of other ways to recruit besides looking bug and fluffing your feathers every time we win a war. Just waiting for people to come when you have a victory means you'll get the sort of people who think about nothing but warring, and will instantly leave when the going gets tough, or we start losing. We don't want testosterone-filled kids in the clan.

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~Aetas: carpe diem quam minimum credula postero~

"Seize the day and place no trust in tomorrow"

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IRC Nickname: Mistah_Vince
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QUOTE (Sonixpber @ September 30, 2008 06:50 am)

QUOTE (Geoff_Bland @ September 30, 2008 06:31 am)

QUOTE

1. Wars obviously cannot be mandatory.
This comes up from the fact that not everyone likes war. Also, not everyone wants to be forced to do war. Saying they are mandatory will just reduce morale. If someone doesn't wanna be there, but they still go, it will be apparent. The person will be negative, die, and not return. That just drops morale even more. You're better off having a solid group of people with high liking, than a larger group that are mixed.

That's our problem right now. If we did have a group of 'warring' people we would be bringing 15-20 people to full outs. That lowers morale even more, losing every war we have. Why do the 'skillers' have to be so selfish and not give a damn about helping Wg out where it most needs it?

I never joined this clan to war, and I think I speak for 80% of our skillers when I say that.

Yeah, what he said. ^ I joined originally into the Skills Sector. I didn't join for Wars.

And don't be calling the skillers selfish. NEVER does somebody like Tabs complain about the outcome to their events. They're satisfied with what comes. Yet, everybody who goes to a War is always complaining about how there's never enough people. And I won't lie, I myself am included in that. But I consider myself more of a skiller than a warr-er.

And it's true that right now, if we made a "Warring Group" we wouldn't have enough members to do so. But it's a nice thought for the future. You should think about the future more than the present. It usually gets people far in life.

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IRC Nickname: Cory|Melchior
Group: Ex-Member
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Joined: April 25, 2008
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QUOTE (Pbplayer9 @ September 30, 2008 08:01 am)

QUOTE (Sonixpber @ September 30, 2008 06:50 am)

QUOTE (Geoff_Bland @ September 30, 2008 06:31 am)

QUOTE

1. Wars obviously cannot be mandatory.
This comes up from the fact that not everyone likes war. Also, not everyone wants to be forced to do war. Saying they are mandatory will just reduce morale. If someone doesn't wanna be there, but they still go, it will be apparent. The person will be negative, die, and not return. That just drops morale even more. You're better off having a solid group of people with high liking, than a larger group that are mixed.

That's our problem right now. If we did have a group of 'warring' people we would be bringing 15-20 people to full outs. That lowers morale even more, losing every war we have. Why do the 'skillers' have to be so selfish and not give a damn about helping Wg out where it most needs it?

I never joined this clan to war, and I think I speak for 80% of our skillers when I say that.

Yeah, what he said. ^ I joined originally into the Skills Sector. I didn't join for Wars.

And don't be calling the skillers selfish. NEVER does somebody like Tabs complain about the outcome to their events. They're satisfied with what comes. Yet, everybody who goes to a War is always complaining about how there's never enough people. And I won't lie, I myself am included in that. But I consider myself more of a skiller than a warr-er.

And it's true that right now, if we made a "Warring Group" we wouldn't have enough members to do so. But it's a nice thought for the future. You should think about the future more than the present. It usually gets people far in life.

Yeah, precisely the point I was trying to make. I mean, when we're called skillers like that, the only thing I can think that is similar is like a segregation, or one of those -ist words. It's like you guys are saying we're shit and bring the clan down, when we make up a large amount of the clan.

QUOTE (tunac)

QUOTE (ikahigurashi)

That's our problem right now. If we did have a group of 'warring' people we would be bringing 15-20 people to full outs.

Uhh, no..We have more than 20 people who like warring. Skilling is the majority, not warring. The idea of a warring list is cutting out who doesn't want to come, therefore the numbers will be pretty much unaffected. But, you get a higher % of your ML, which is good for competing. Besides, I would say full-outs (long preps) should include the whole clan, not just the list.

Yeah, I guess I underestimated the actual number... It was a random ballpark figure tbh.

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Kingdom of Edgeville

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IRC Nickname: [JC]
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QUOTE

Second, we need to get a active skiller in council. I don't care from what timezone, but someone who likes to skill more so than war. If they war too, that's fine, but someone who is dominant skiller. We all must have equal say, and anyone who skills will probably agree that we need someone who will actually take our side for a change, instead of take the side of the war.

Uh, Hi

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Old awards wat
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IRC Nickname: Gorgemaster
Group: Elite Guardian
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Joel.
If WG was a warring clan only then I would never have joined.
I joined back in July '07 because I loved the mix of fighting, skilling and community events, it really appealed to me and that is what made me stay and grow here.
Since then I have continued to keep the skills side (community side too essentially) active with making events and ideas etc and it has worked.
So don't you dare say that any of the skillers are being selfish.
...
./rant

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IRC Nickname: Rick Hamm
Group: Ex-Member
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Honestly, I don't think even I could have put it better. What an outstanding, outspoken and intelligent member we have here.

I agree 100% with everything you said...everything.

I will make myself available should Council want/need my services for any of the cleanup, the moderation, or whatever. I've got experience on my side for most anything they come up with.

Again, fantastic post!!!! I see you really going places here if people take the time to read and take some of your advice. It's really some of the best advice and ideas we've had in quite a long time.

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IRC Nickname: Rage|Mike
Group: Clan Friend
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Joined: July 29, 2008
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1- There is no need to force people to attend wars, but what we really need is member awareness. Warring is done IN the name of the clan, Skilling is done in the name of the person who's skilling. (Excluding Skill wars)
What I personally think is, people should start attending wars even if they don't like them, for the good of the clan. One good example here is Rachel, she has a low combat level and shes a skiller, YET she still attends most of our wars for the good of the clan, try being more like her, it really helps sometimes.
You don't need to attend every single war/pkri, but try to attend as many as possible if you can.
Wars and Public Events are the most important factor in reputation, recruitment and overall activity. Internal Events and Personal skilling are important, but truth be said, Wars and Public Events are much more important (For the good of the clan).

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2 Skiller in Council: You guys have Evil, he's interested in skilling a lot and he's a Pmod ingame. There is no need for another skiller in council since you guys already have TONS of skilling events AND skill of the week, while if we get a -1 day prep FOR ONE SINGLE TIME IN AGES, people rant about the low prep.
I agree with Joe.
We have like 2 wars or so per week honestly, personally I think they're not enough, while others may disagree, the truth still remains that skilling is getting most of the attention in WG.
I feel that warring and PKri's are getting neglected, you guys really don't get the big picture in it sometimes (No offense, just stating some facts), I PERSONALLY don't like RS much, I like warring sometimes but I'm more interested in WoW, yet I never skipped a war if I'm online, the reason is that it's FOR THE GOOD OF THE CLAN. Warring carries your clan's name, skilling carries your characters name, thats the difference here.

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3 I agree with you on this one

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4 The problem with recruiting is, the lack of proper bumping and Fansite posting (Not posting this to offend our ex-App managers btw).
Thing is, we need to constantly get more RSC post events/wars, a better recruitment post, constant bumping on several famous fansites, more people posting in fansites, removing inactives, and restoring of the old App Managers rank

I DO respect every single work our app managers did in the past, but to be honest without App managers we won't be able to have good recruitment, right now we're losing more members than we're gaining, which is really a bad thing as the numbers decrease could hurt us in the long run.

^^^^ What I think on the subject, all what I posted is based on what I think btw, don't be offended because I stated some things that I feel are facts. Feel free to reply to my post.

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IRC: Rage|Mike at SwiftIRC and SeersIRC
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IRC Nickname: Yingy
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Big mistake calling Skillers selfish Joel. Think before you post.

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IRC Nickname: Cory|Melchior
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QUOTE (evil)

QUOTE (ika)

Second, we need to get a active skiller in council. I don't care from what timezone, but someone who likes to skill more so than war. If they war too, that's fine, but someone who is dominant skiller. We all must have equal say, and anyone who skills will probably agree that we need someone who will actually take our side for a change, instead of take the side of the war.

Uh, Hi

Chyeah, I realize we have you, but...before Rob's leave, it was 3 to 1, as far as warring vs skilling goes. Now it can be balanced.

QUOTE (ragingwealth)

hash.png2 Skiller in Council: You guys have Evil, he's interested in skilling a lot and he's a Pmod ingame. There is no need for another skiller in council since you guys already have TONS of skilling events AND skill of the week, while if we get a -1 day prep FOR ONE SINGLE TIME IN AGES, people rant about the low prep.
I agree with Joe.
We have like 2 wars or so per week honestly, personally I think they're not enough, while others may disagree, the truth still remains that skilling is getting most of the attention in WG.
I feel that warring and PKri's are getting neglected, you guys really don't get the big picture in it sometimes (No offense, just stating some facts), I PERSONALLY don't like RS much, I like warring sometimes but I'm more interested in WoW, yet I never skipped a war if I'm online, the reason is that it's FOR THE GOOD OF THE CLAN. Warring carries your clan's name, skilling carries your characters name, thats the difference here.

The time span isn't what gets me. The reason I can't attend the wars is because I simply am not available during the times of wars. Despite the fact that I am not a fan of wars, I would still attempt to attend given they were available to me. But, that is just me, I can't speak for everyone on behalf of my schedule. The main point I'm trying to make; the length of time doesn't matter to me, it's whether or not I'm enjoying what I'm doing. No, I don't think mindless woodcutting for hours is for fun, but, I can do it because I can also browse the web, or do whatever while I do it. When I war, I'm focused on the same boring thing for an X-length of time.

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Kingdom of Edgeville

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