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 Wars, Raids and Sex, There really is no Sex in this topic
Posted: December 2, 2008 08:07 pmTop
   


IRC Nickname: {Rene}
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This is a slightly lengthy post. Please make sure to read it all.

I had this discussion on IRC with some members and I felt it would have a better position on these forums.

In general this Suggestion is mainly concerning the fighting sector of wg but I'd also like the opinions of more skilling orientated members.

The idea I'm going to put forwards is quite simply less wars.

The main reason Wg pulls so low is due to members just not caring enough about wars. There are simply too many wars hosted and for members who don't like wars in general this simply means they get even more bored of wars.

What I am proposing is going to what Wg used to be. A war used to be rare. Once a month or such and members were glad to dedicate themselves to this war, get the gear for it and stay up way out of their timezone to be able to attend these wars. Wars were rare and an event that didn't happen very often so members made sure to do their best to attend this wars.

My suggestion is to simply make wars a one time a month event only while challenging ourselves for a good war. Raids can substitute the normal weekly wars. Now some of you may wonder about the low attendance of raids or how this would solve the attendance of wars.

Quite simply some of the people who attend the weekly wars would just go "pfft I've attended my weekly event. I'm not going to the raid." However with the loss of the weekly wars this would mean they have no other choice than to either attend the skilling events or our raids to keep their attendance up.

For wars it would simply mean that they would be a rarer event. Along with the 1 war a month I would also like to see the "Month of peace" back in which we didn't war . This would make wars a rare event and one of those events to really attend. This would simply mean there would be more interest and motivation to attend a war and it would be easier to enforce attendance in wars.

Also I'd like to propose that all Wars will be in PvP. People have grown lazy and the dedication to the clan in the fighting sector is gone towards PvP. Also before you wonder about pkri's and put forward the argument that the only thing that allows you to win in PvP is the amount of rune sets. Do you have to win to have fun in PvP? No, you don't. You can have enjoyable Run ins without actually winning them. Just put a cap on how long members should try to return for at the start and when you as a council/raid leader think the clan has returned enough or the fight is no longer fun feel free to call off the run in.

Sure it may seem to RSC as if we always lose our pkri's but do we really care that much about such things?

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Please do discuss and put forward your opinions on this matter.

P.S.: Sex neko2.gif
 
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Posted: December 2, 2008 08:15 pmTop
   
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IRC Nickname: Geofff
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One war a month would probably cause me to quit.
We also seem to actually have more skilling/community events than wars/raids. Maybe not this week because of the Trial Raid leaders but on normal weeks we do.
 
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Posted: December 2, 2008 08:26 pmTop
   
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I assume you mean 1 major war a month, not just one war a month period. I mean, I assume we would still have the almost weekly matched opts and short prep wars.

If you mean simply one war a month period, then I am completely against this idea. Not only does it make WG horrible at warring since we are constantly out of practice, it also makes the game less fun for people like me who enjoy warring.

I could actually write alot more on this, but I have homework to do. In short I come to the conclusion that it is best to just let people do what they want. Stop trying to force skillers go to wars, emeritus attend events, and people who like warring to attend skill events and raids. These events work best when you have people who actually want to be there, and forcing people to come to events they do not like only creates conflict in the clan.
 
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Posted: December 2, 2008 08:37 pmTop
   
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If we are going to cut down the amount of wars, then as you said, we'll need more Raiding.

Now our attendance is crap with 3 raids a week
The four main reasons are:

1) Some people dislike PvP and won't give it a shot
2) We have Inactive members that make our memberlist inaccurate and our memberlist doesn't represent a majority timezone. It's a 33% Share on Australian, American and GMT Timezones (Especially after Moose's mass aussie recruitment neko2.gif)

3) Some people aren't willing to take the PvP Risk
4) Our current event requirements are extremely low and almost none existant.

Now the REAL problems are 1 and 3. Member awareness IS needed. Raids represent WG, it's not about pixels. Give it a shot, you're in a clan that NEEDS support in it's PvP sector real bad.
We're currently in the stone age of the clan world. We have CWA wars when most clans resort to PKing and PvP Wars (I don't blame our raid leaders). We have Safe PKRI's while clans are having PvP PKRI's (I don't blame Jess for the Triforce PKRI, Reasons are below).

Who I REALLY blame is our members, Our raid leaders get CWA Wars because we get over 20 people to wars, and less than 20 to raids that have longer preps. If we had more people come to raids, would you honestly think we'll do more wars? I seriously doubt it.

Safe PKRI's, we get those because we had some SIMPLE ONE HOUR SAFEEEEEEEE PKRI's and people didn't bother to return. Would you really think people will do PvP PKRI's if thats the case? Again I seriously doubt it. Thats why this PKRI is Safe.

The problem here is with the member awareness. I know I'm not a veteran or an old member, but I do know what I'm talking about. Unless people start being aware that problem will never be solved. Come on step it up guys, we need to adapt to the current PvP System, show some loyalty and responsibility and come. It's only 200k per set, I know most in WG have over 10m in items and some still don't come.

If you need help making money, check out my PKRI guide in the war forums, it has money making methods.

So if we want less Wars, replace them with Raids. The only way we can fix the current problem is by getting a strict attendance system for Raids.
 
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Posted: December 2, 2008 08:48 pmTop
   


IRC Nickname: {Rene}
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Joined: February 25, 2008
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QUOTE (Karlfischer @ December 02, 2008 03:26 pm)
I assume you mean 1 major war a month, not just one war a month period. I mean, I assume we would still have the almost weekly matched opts and short prep wars.

If you mean simply one war a month period, then I am completely against this idea. Not only does it make WG horrible at warring since we are constantly out of practice, it also makes the game less fun for people like me who enjoy warring.

I could actually write alot more on this, but I have homework to do. In short I come to the conclusion that it is best to just let people do what they want. Stop trying to force skillers go to wars, emeritus attend events, and people who like warring to attend skill events and raids. These events work best when you have people who actually want to be there, and forcing people to come to events they do not like only creates conflict in the clan.

I simply mean 1 war a month, Period.

Raids are substitute for wars in this. It would simply mean we would not lose out on organisatio nor people with tanking experience. Raids are just as good as wars fro those who want to continue their fighting habits. Also there are 3 different raids with one specializing in each of Wg their top 3 timezones.

A good, fair pkri can equal the same fun as a weekly war and we don't have to drag it out for hours.

The only reason people dislike raids is because members no longer wish to sacrifice rune due to the clan wars period we had.

I'd like to say that I formulated it wrong. I didn't mean it as in to push skillers to attend. But I was saying that there would be more of an urge to attend an important event for Wg. Seeing as these wars would usually be with our rivals or for a Raw rank.

I'm not revoicing my opinion on Emeritus activity. I've done that too many times already. Besides that's a different subject.
 
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Posted: December 2, 2008 09:35 pmTop
   
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IRC Nickname: Karlfischer
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QUOTE (Renegade3540 @ December 02, 2008 08:48 pm)
QUOTE (Karlfischer @ December 02, 2008 03:26 pm)
I assume you mean 1 major war a month, not just one war a month period.  I mean, I assume we would still have the almost weekly matched opts and short prep wars.

If you mean simply one war a month period, then I am completely against this idea.  Not only does it make WG horrible at warring since we are constantly out of practice, it also makes the game less fun for people like me who enjoy warring.

I could actually write alot more on this, but I have homework to do.  In short I come to the conclusion that it is best to just let people do what they want.  Stop trying to force skillers go to wars, emeritus attend events, and people who like warring to attend skill events and raids.  These events work best when you have people who actually want to be there, and forcing people to come to events they do not like only creates conflict in the clan.

I simply mean 1 war a month, Period.

Raids are substitute for wars in this. It would simply mean we would not lose out on organisatio nor people with tanking experience. Raids are just as good as wars fro those who want to continue their fighting habits. Also there are 3 different raids with one specializing in each of Wg their top 3 timezones.

A good, fair pkri can equal the same fun as a weekly war and we don't have to drag it out for hours.

The only reason people dislike raids is because members no longer wish to sacrifice rune due to the clan wars period we had.

I'd like to say that I formulated it wrong. I didn't mean it as in to push skillers to attend. But I was saying that there would be more of an urge to attend an important event for Wg. Seeing as these wars would usually be with our rivals or for a Raw rank.

I'm not revoicing my opinion on Emeritus activity. I've done that too many times already. Besides that's a different subject.

Ok, well, what is your favorite event? If someone told you that you could only have that event once a month, what would be your response?


 
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Posted: December 2, 2008 10:07 pmTop
   


IRC Nickname: {Rene}
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Joined: February 25, 2008
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QUOTE (Karlfischer @ December 02, 2008 04:35 pm)
QUOTE (Renegade3540 @ December 02, 2008 08:48 pm)
QUOTE (Karlfischer @ December 02, 2008 03:26 pm)
I assume you mean 1 major war a month, not just one war a month period.  I mean, I assume we would still have the almost weekly matched opts and short prep wars.

If you mean simply one war a month period, then I am completely against this idea.  Not only does it make WG horrible at warring since we are constantly out of practice, it also makes the game less fun for people like me who enjoy warring.

I could actually write alot more on this, but I have homework to do.  In short I come to the conclusion that it is best to just let people do what they want.   Stop trying to force skillers go to wars, emeritus attend events, and people who like warring to attend skill events and raids.  These events work best when you have people who actually want to be there, and forcing people to come to events they do not like only creates conflict in the clan.

I simply mean 1 war a month, Period.

Raids are substitute for wars in this. It would simply mean we would not lose out on organisatio nor people with tanking experience. Raids are just as good as wars fro those who want to continue their fighting habits. Also there are 3 different raids with one specializing in each of Wg their top 3 timezones.

A good, fair pkri can equal the same fun as a weekly war and we don't have to drag it out for hours.

The only reason people dislike raids is because members no longer wish to sacrifice rune due to the clan wars period we had.

I'd like to say that I formulated it wrong. I didn't mean it as in to push skillers to attend. But I was saying that there would be more of an urge to attend an important event for Wg. Seeing as these wars would usually be with our rivals or for a Raw rank.

I'm not revoicing my opinion on Emeritus activity. I've done that too many times already. Besides that's a different subject.

Ok, well, what is your favorite event? If someone told you that you could only have that event once a month, what would be your response?

I have no favourite event.

I enjoy a good challenging raid or a fun evenly matched war. But I enjoy event like the veteran wars and Clan Quests alot more due to the fact of them not being whored to dead.
 
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Posted: December 2, 2008 10:09 pmTop
   
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1 waar a month = me and prolly a fair few others will quit. period
 
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Posted: December 2, 2008 10:15 pmTop
   


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QUOTE (Narita @ December 02, 2008 05:09 pm)
1 waar a month = me and prolly a fair few others will quit. period

Why would you quit?

Why wouldn't raids be valid for you?

If you're going to post. Atleast make sure you've actually read the topic and can form a valid argument.
 
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Posted: December 2, 2008 10:44 pmTop
   
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QUOTE (Renegade3540 @ December 02, 2008 10:07 pm)
QUOTE (Karlfischer @ December 02, 2008 04:35 pm)
QUOTE (Renegade3540 @ December 02, 2008 08:48 pm)
QUOTE (Karlfischer @ December 02, 2008 03:26 pm)
I assume you mean 1 major war a month, not just one war a month period.  I mean, I assume we would still have the almost weekly matched opts and short prep wars.

If you mean simply one war a month period, then I am completely against this idea.  Not only does it make WG horrible at warring since we are constantly out of practice, it also makes the game less fun for people like me who enjoy warring.

I could actually write alot more on this, but I have homework to do.  In short I come to the conclusion that it is best to just let people do what they want.  Stop trying to force skillers go to wars, emeritus attend events, and people who like warring to attend skill events and raids.  These events work best when you have people who actually want to be there, and forcing people to come to events they do not like only creates conflict in the clan.

I simply mean 1 war a month, Period.

Raids are substitute for wars in this. It would simply mean we would not lose out on organisatio nor people with tanking experience. Raids are just as good as wars fro those who want to continue their fighting habits. Also there are 3 different raids with one specializing in each of Wg their top 3 timezones.

A good, fair pkri can equal the same fun as a weekly war and we don't have to drag it out for hours.

The only reason people dislike raids is because members no longer wish to sacrifice rune due to the clan wars period we had.

I'd like to say that I formulated it wrong. I didn't mean it as in to push skillers to attend. But I was saying that there would be more of an urge to attend an important event for Wg. Seeing as these wars would usually be with our rivals or for a Raw rank.

I'm not revoicing my opinion on Emeritus activity. I've done that too many times already. Besides that's a different subject.

Ok, well, what is your favorite event? If someone told you that you could only have that event once a month, what would be your response?

I have no favourite event.

I enjoy a good challenging raid or a fun evenly matched war. But I enjoy event like the veteran wars and Clan Quests alot more due to the fact of them not being whored to dead.

I assume you are saying you get more enjoyment out of having less wars since you take them more seriously. You cannot apply that to everyone though, I like having alot of wars because I consider the act of warring itself to be fun, not just the winning an losing aspects, nor do I enjoy it when people take warring so seriously and pressure others to put RS before IRL. So then what gives you a right to curtain my enjoyment of the game to enhance your own?

You have no favorite event, while my favorite event is warring. As such, decreasing the amount of wars hurts my enjoyment of the game much more than it improves your enjoyment of the game. Assuming that we both have a right to enjoy the game, and I stand more to lose or gain from your proposal, should not my ability to enjoy the events I want take precedence over your ability to restrict the events I enjoy?
 
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Posted: December 2, 2008 11:05 pmTop
   
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1 word sums this up: NO .....but yea unfortunately 1 war a month would mean 1 lose a month and a boring clan
 
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Posted: December 3, 2008 12:30 amTop
   
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Sorry, but warring never really was once a month. I don't know what clan that is. I really have to disagree with your post unfortunately. Two wars a week is nothing. That's like an hour and a half of your time... if that. And also, if we warred once a month, not only would our clan NOT pull more options, but the clan would go inactive more because there is no requirement.
If two wars a week stresses you out, maybe this isn't the right environment for you.
You're argument is that, if no one attends classes or does homework for a month, they'll do better on the test because they had plenty of time to study. That is wrong imo.
 
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Posted: December 3, 2008 12:42 amTop
   


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I agree with Karl. Even if we don't lose every war it's about you and your clan mates testing your mettle in the most ancient and time honored contest, bloodshed. hash.png

Raids, raids are boring as hell. One of three things happens:
- we find nobody or very few
- we get crashed
- we find people but it ends up being a PKRI which most people won't do and most clans can beat us even if we wanted to
 
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Posted: December 3, 2008 01:04 amTop
   
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We dont pull well enough to be solid on our own in raids
 
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Posted: December 3, 2008 05:00 amTop
   
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Ill be short and sweet if we were to cut down to 1 war a month id quit wg. Im a war monger i love wars tbh we dont lose anything except food and runes during war. Theyre an hour tops and honestly not that bad timing for the majority.
 
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Posted: December 3, 2008 01:31 pmTop
   
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I remember reading something like this before...
 
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Posted: December 3, 2008 01:46 pmTop
   
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i agree to you rene but there's one thing wtf do we got to do at the raids? it wil become the same as the wars?
maybe there should be a war on saturday every week or atleast try to get one for all of the timezones
 
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Posted: December 3, 2008 03:34 pmTop
   
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QUOTE (Narita @ December 02, 2008 10:09 pm)
1 waar a month = me and prolly a fair few others will quit. period

Exactly why this suggestion would never happen. We are both a warring and skilling clan, and we are not changing that.

As it stands, we have one major major war every three to four weeks, two or so less important wars per week, and several matched opts low prep wars per week. This is, overall, completely normal for a warring clan to have, and yes, we are a warring clan, thus we have warlords.

Admittedly, our number of wars have spiked in the recent week due to the new Raid Leader Trials going a little ott with trying to prove themselves, but obviously this is only temporary, thus the 'trial'.

~Mugger84
 
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Posted: December 3, 2008 06:40 pmTop
   


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QUOTE (Mugger84 @ December 03, 2008 10:34 am)
QUOTE (Narita @ December 02, 2008 10:09 pm)
1 waar a month = me and prolly a fair few others will quit. period

Exactly why this suggestion would never happen. We are both a warring and skilling clan, and we are not changing that.

As it stands, we have one major major war every three to four weeks, two or so less important wars per week, and several matched opts low prep wars per week. This is, overall, completely normal for a warring clan to have, and yes, we are a warring clan, thus we have warlords.

Admittedly, our number of wars have spiked in the recent week due to the new Raid Leader Trials going a little ott with trying to prove themselves, but obviously this is only temporary, thus the 'trial'.

~Mugger84

We are not a warring clan. We in general focus on both PvP, PvE and community events. PvP includes events such as fight pits, castle wars, Bounty Hunter, Raids and wars. There are many different Fighting 'Sector' events.

Actually the real Wg lies in raids since it is why Wg was first made. To protect the skillers in the wild. Raids would be done to clear the wild in our name. Wars were reserved for those we held grudges against or to simply advance in the ranks/challenge ourselves. (Wg vs Rune outlaws and Wg vs Valor to give an example of both.)

Even if we do major wars why do all the smaller wars? It simply drives away raids and people ignore them to an extent. Also people will get bored more easily and wars will just simply another war.

Some of the replies I'm going to simply ignore since it was obvious you simply didn't read my post past the first paragraph.

If you are simply too lazy to read the whole post I don't even care about your opinion and don't bother to reply.

@Karl: I'll post/edit in a response later. Too tired from revising atm.
 
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Posted: December 4, 2008 12:59 amTop
   
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i read the whole post and was in the irc at the time, and yes we are a warring clan. we are a warring skilling events why do you think some of the main events are war training. etc yes we do others but wg is and as far as iv known it as a wg member and non member it always has been a warring clan to change that would be like making NI a Honour clan
 
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Posted: December 4, 2008 01:15 amTop
   
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Renegade. We aren't solely one thing. We skill, we war, we do community things. This doesn't mean we aren't a warring clan. We do weekly wars. Wg has always done lots of wars, though nothing to the quantity of 90% of other warring clans.
As a warlord, its my obligation to improve our warring. Warring once a month does nothing. You say it will make us pull larger. It won't make us pull more than a 10% difference. There is near no difference between a one week prep and a 3 week prep. People are busy when they are busy. We can't change that.

I'm generally happy with us pulling near 50 at one week preps. Why the push to make it once a month? A HUGE percent of the clan loves warring. Maybe 15% or so hate it and maybe like 5-10% will do ANYTHING to get out of wars. That leaves about 75-85% that love warring. Warring once a week is nothing.

Raids are good, but are almost pointless. There are no skillers to save in the wilderness anymore. If they skill, they of course go to the wilderness on a non PVP world. In pvp, only about 50% the clan is even willing to give it a chance because of their financial situations. I would hardly say our clan is "based around raids."

I'll check back on this later.
 
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Posted: December 4, 2008 03:14 amTop
   
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way i see it is more wars = more event count + clan honor

its all good
 
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Posted: December 4, 2008 08:39 amTop
   


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QUOTE (Arsenalfan32 @ December 04, 2008 01:15 am)

Raids are good, but are almost pointless. There are no skillers to save in the wilderness anymore. If they skill, they of course go to the wilderness on a non PVP world. In pvp, only about 50% the clan is even willing to give it a chance because of their financial situations. I would hardly say our clan is "based around raids."

So you are saying that we wont raid as much, because our main purpose (protecting the innocent) is gone?
Why can't we have raids for fun? and show our strength to other clans.

But like BTO said, our attendance to raids sucks.
So our raids arn't that good most of the times, lack of people, we run into bigger clans...

So once again, our problem is the failing activity...
 
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Posted: December 4, 2008 10:09 amTop
   


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QUOTE (Arsenalfan32 @ December 03, 2008 08:15 pm)
Renegade. We aren't solely one thing. We skill, we war, we do community things. This doesn't mean we aren't a warring clan. We do weekly wars. Wg has always done lots of wars, though nothing to the quantity of 90% of other warring clans.
As a warlord, its my obligation to improve our warring. Warring once a month does nothing. You say it will make us pull larger. It won't make us pull more than a 10% difference. There is near no difference between a one week prep and a 3 week prep. People are busy when they are busy. We can't change that.

I'm generally happy with us pulling near 50 at one week preps. Why the push to make it once a month? A HUGE percent of the clan loves warring. Maybe 15% or so hate it and maybe like 5-10% will do ANYTHING to get out of wars. That leaves about 75-85% that love warring. Warring once a week is nothing.

Wg never did this many wars (Please note: I am talking 2-3+ Years back, Before clan wars arena) If you do not believe me feel free to check the photo archives of 2005,2006, Begin 2007 on the main website.

The idea of it improving attendance isn't simply a theory but is something I've observed from happing and when I was there myself.

Also if you need numbers. Now back then we Pulled 125 out of 1 members (with emeritus) That is 68% (Rounded upwards). In the last big war wg had they pulled 45 out of 120 members (With emeritus, an estimate of 80 members + 40 emeritus) That's 38% (Rounded upwards).

Also if it's one war a month people will be more likely to turn up at raids if they're really such fighting orientated. Raids are a tradition and it's what Wg was first made out of. Telling us to neglect them because members are too scared to lose rune is simply not right. Members have gone soft from the clan wars era and simply lost their determination of fighting in a raid since they'll just be able to up their attendance count through the wars and not bother to attend raids.


 
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Posted: December 4, 2008 11:34 amTop
   
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IRC Nickname: [Narita]
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Joined: October 15, 2008
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yes clans didnt war as much 2 3 years ago but there was still pking then. when we could go to the wildy and in 3 or 4 worlds find a fight this was he same when i was bd vr ni rr etc. all those clans had big wars usualy once every 2-4 weeks. bd vs wg for example. but when pking died you have to change and it changed to bh. then when that got owned it changed to clan wars. clans have to be dynamic and not get stuck in the old ways or theyll die out.
 
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