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"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship |
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Posted: February 23, 2009 08:46 pm  | |||||||||||||
      IRC Nickname: Mickey Group: Emeritus Posts: 5305 Member No.: 48 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 282    | We only have 8 people below 105 Combat, and 105 combat is easy to get with Soul Wars/Armoured Zombies etc nowadays, on top of that, even with 105+ Combat reqs, we still will have some of the lowest requirements amongst clans of our size anyway, so I don't see why so much fuss is being made over it  --------------------    | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 23, 2009 08:51 pm | |||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 7306 Member No.: 47 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 343 |
A journey of a thousand miles beings with one step. To me this is the first step, there will always be something to improve, nobody is perfect. This plan along with any other to raise/change the requirements(at least the current ones) are if not the first step then the next step on a journey I do not want to see WG take. In the end it will never be enough, the change will be slow but sure and WG will become something it was never meant to be and that I personally don't think it should be. Don't get me wrong, I love warring but the best thing about WG that no other clan can ever match is our community and APRK code. Those two things are the reasons I joined WG and I feel the farther we go down this new road the farther we move away from our core values. Now you may say being a powerhouse would be a great way to enforce the ARPK code and new requirements would be a step on this path, I disagree, Stoke actually made an interesting point here that I feel deserves mention about how the community was the base for being a powerhouse. The loyalty he felt to the other members and other members felt to each other as a whole was why WG was so dominant, we had the spirit not just the stats. I feel we need to care more about our community than what RSC thinks of WG, if we did that much we should drop the ARPK code and do hours and hours of PKRIs. P.S. That enough? -------------------- July 5, 2007 - June 27, 2011 | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 23, 2009 08:56 pm | |||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: leecable Group: Banned Posts: 1938 Member No.: 410 Joined: April 1, 2008 Total Events Attended: 178 |
Read my post, What about the range tanks, Whos max combat level is 104 or something? --------------------    | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 23, 2009 09:01 pm | |||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: ^Dave^ Group: Ex-Member Posts: 735 Member No.: 1616 Joined: January 4, 2009 Total Events Attended: 23 |
Tanks usually max 104-106 xD Tank unit kthx --------------------  | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 23, 2009 09:02 pm | |||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Joe mamma27 Group: Ex-Member Posts: 106 Member No.: 1589 Joined: December 26, 2008 Total Events Attended: 12 | Personally, I don't see how 3 more combat levels as a requirement to graduate is going to ruin a clan  .And 103 unit ftw Dave  -------------------- | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 23, 2009 09:03 pm | |||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Rage|Mike Group: Clan Friend Posts: 1948 Member No.: 1238 Joined: July 29, 2008 Total Events Attended: 132 |
No one is foolish enough to turn a community clan into a complete Powerhouse, I don't believe it happened before nor will it happen in the future. We can keep our low requirements but in the long run it'll hurt us big time because we're not picking up the pace. A lot in WG work hard to help us in raising our combat average but it's not enough because the new trials put the hard work down as all what we get is low levels for the most part. Those who want us to be a powerhouse said they wanted +110 if not more, those who want us to remain unchanged have said they don't want change. Get a fair compromise to keep both sides happy, it certainly won't turn us into a powerhouse because no powerhouse clan requires 5 rune sets and 105. We don't raid or war enough to be powerhouse, nor am I saying we should. Strength is in the community, but PvP is also part of the community, probably one of the largest factors in it. It's all about team work, how would it hurt the community when no one IN the community is going to be affected? And like I said in my reply to Valdy's post, this is meant to be a final change and not as a 'Trick' to lure the clan into more combat raising. --------------------  MSN: [email protected] IRC: Rage|Mike at SwiftIRC and SeersIRC Drop me a comment, click to view my RSC profile! Proud to be ex-Wilderness Guardian.  | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 23, 2009 09:57 pm | |||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Chimpy Group: Banned Posts: 2521 Member No.: 1474 Joined: November 16, 2008 Total Events Attended: 133 | Agreed. And we could also do an FA system (I know, TG is our FA system) where the reqs are like 100+ or something, and make it like 102-103 to apply, and level 105 within the trial period (of what length idk yet, maybe 45 days or so). Heck we can even make it like 95+ FA why not. Just my two cents, whatever you decide is fine though, as long as some action is taken. (And the req's should be raised seeing as the majority of people voted in favor of a raise.) --------------------    | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 23, 2009 10:06 pm | |||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: [Narita] Group: Guest Posts: 695 Member No.: 1378 Joined: October 15, 2008 Total Events Attended: 34 |
they have to be 102 f2p on graduation atm anyway. -------------------- | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 23, 2009 11:35 pm | |||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 7306 Member No.: 47 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 343 | Why do we need a higher combat average? Why not just have better tanks? -------------------- July 5, 2007 - June 27, 2011 | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 23, 2009 11:40 pm | |||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Chimpy Group: Banned Posts: 2521 Member No.: 1474 Joined: November 16, 2008 Total Events Attended: 133 |
A majority said Yes to raising the Req's., not if you only look at 105 I agree, but most said Yes to atleast raising the reqs. No [ 34 ] [36.56%] Yes, to 102 or 103 [ 12 ] [12.90%] Yes, to 105 [ 25 ] [26.88%] Yes, to 107 [ 7 ] [7.53%] Yes, to 110 [ 9 ] [9.68%] Yes, to above 110 [ 6 ] [6.45%] Total Votes: 93 34 voted no, but 59 said yes to raising the reqs. -------------------- | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 23, 2009 11:41 pm | |||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: [Randy] Group: Raid Leader Posts: 5065 Member No.: 16 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 499 | 105+ or 102+ with 85 (maybe 90) defense sounds legit to me.. --------------------   | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 24, 2009 01:18 am | |||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Maths Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1855 Member No.: 54 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 286 | If we were edging for 120+ requirements, that'd be powerhouse. 105+ is hardly powerhouse. Honestly wg requirements haven't changed in so long. 107-110 is the new 100 if you all haven't realised. Look. This situation is exactly the same as what happens with maxed players (2376 total). About 1 year back, there was 4-5 of them? Now there's 100+ of them. It's exactly the same with combat. There are such a large group of 100+ people these days, its really nothing to brag about. As times change, we as a clan have to adapt as well. Yes, there should be 105+ requirements. Even 100+ (application), then 105+ (after trial) process is a baby step. But I s'pose I'd settle with that to keep the "skillers" happy. --------------------  "Journeys are what brings us happiness, Not the destination." ~ Two time ex-raid leader of wg ~  | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 24, 2009 01:59 am | |||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Colin Group: Ex-Member Posts: 2039 Member No.: 68 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 69 |
Thank you Joe. Doesn't anyone remember Adelais when they first formed? They had the shittiest levels in the world but still kicked ass because they knew how to tank, and were extremely organized. It's not all about levels. --------------------  Proud WG member from January 2006 - Fall 2009 | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 24, 2009 02:17 am | |||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Joe mamma27 Group: Ex-Member Posts: 106 Member No.: 1589 Joined: December 26, 2008 Total Events Attended: 12 |
-Not flaming, real questions- Do you have any suggestions to get better tanks? It's hard to tell if a person is a good tank through an application and currently as a Trial Guardian I've only had to tank once. I was told that I did very well but I didn't really receive any tips to improve (maybe I'm just that good?  ). One idea from me, to get better tanks that is, is to take people to common warring places to teach them how to tank. I personally have not done PvP in the wilderness since the "old wilderness" was taken out over a year ago. Meaning I had no clue what "tree to tree" was until a few days when we had a war there. I had no clue what to hug or how to tank there. -------------------- | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 24, 2009 02:19 am | |||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 |
What do you mean requirements haven't changed for so long. When I joined a year ago you only had to be 85 combat and I was 88. I'm sick of hearing about raising levels. It is not about the skillers. It is about the community. I consider myself more about the community than being a skiller. I haven't skilled for over a month. I am only doing combat. To be honest, a lot of people will be unhappy which ever way the requirements go. If you raise them then the "no" are upset. If you don't then the others will be. It is now a no win situation. What has to be decided is which way will hurt the community more. I do not agree with Mike about his attitude of it won't hurt anyone. We have heard it before that this is the change we need and it won't effect you. We were told to not worry over going to wars. Then it all changes when the greed and pride of people get in the way of wanting to be "in the ranks". The rules change slowly.  This is like baking brownies with just a tiny spoonful of dog poop in them. They are put in the oven at 400 degrees so it should kill all the bacteria and be safe for you to eat them. How many of you want to eat those brownies? I think no one. Just adding this one lil thing is not going to hurt us. Bull crap. It will change the community yet again. --------------------  Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~  | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 24, 2009 02:27 am | |||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Useph Group: Guest Posts: 267 Member No.: 125 Joined: January 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 29 | Raising requirements to 105 would be taking one step forward in the War Part of WG and two steps back (one in skilling and one in community). Truth is, it's more like taking 5 steps back in community because there are literally tens of thousands of potential members out there between 100 and 105 combat, and by raising the reqs there's a good chance they'll find another clan and settle on it. If I was looking for a clan and I was level 101, I came here and saw 105+, chances are I'd just keep looking for another clan. And there's virtually nothing that would get me to leave that clan for WG. There's a member lost forever. What are the really good things about higher combat reqs anyway? -------------------- Goals 78/99  | 99/99  | 92/99  | 94/99  | 82/99  | 99/99  | 77/99  mIRC Guru  WG's #1 Pyromaniac | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 24, 2009 03:07 am | |||||||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Lefty Group: Emeritus Posts: 3340 Member No.: 1055 Joined: June 30, 2008 Total Events Attended: 211 | How exactly will raising the requirements help? It does raise our combat by making people train to be in the clan but who wants to join a clan at a lower level when they have to work their asses off to be in it if they are only level 100. Some people have lives and are still pretty damn active within WG. Examples include not only myself but also Mark and I am sure there are some more. There are some people that just plain out don't like training combat; myself being pretty much one of them. Giving someone the task of training 5 combat levels in 1 month along with attending events, gaining friends, and the other shit that is required to graduate is just too much on someone. I did do 2 combat levels plus all of that in the summer, but that is the summer and half of that. It did still take me two weeks. Telling someone to train up to 5 combat levels in a month along with attending 5 events will be very discouraging to some people. Because they don't want to do that you will call them "not dedicated" or "not active" but that is complete and total bullshit. Screw our combat average. Let's just keep our warring up. Combat levels are not always the factor when it comes to someone's skill and techniques in a war, since that is all that some people care about. I am just going to quote a rough idea of what Maths has said before: "Alright then, don't train. That means that I get more profit and I die less when it comes to the wilderness. If you train, we do better. Win-win." If someone is tired of losing rune, they will train. If someone is tired of getting cut, they will train. If someone feels pressure to train, they could leave. People are in a clan to have fun and to enjoy what they are doing in groups; not to feel pressured from the clan to do something that they might not enjoy. Just give it up. Please. --------------------      | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 24, 2009 04:47 am | |||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Maths Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1855 Member No.: 54 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 286 | The point really is 100+ is so low level in today's clan society. Wg used to be a "mid-entry" clan. Not 90+, not 115+, but 100+ That was 2-3 years ago. If you remember in the past, wg did do requirements raise simply because the other levels were too "nooby". This is exactly whats happening again. I don't even know why half of you are complaning. Most of you are 105+ -------------------- "Journeys are what brings us happiness, Not the destination." ~ Two time ex-raid leader of wg ~ | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 24, 2009 05:33 am | |||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Lefty Group: Emeritus Posts: 3340 Member No.: 1055 Joined: June 30, 2008 Total Events Attended: 211 |
If you follow on that point, then no one should complain or care because none of us would be affected. This whole plan does not affect trials or anyone else. The argument is whether it is for the better of the clan or not, not if it would any of us would be affected. -------------------- | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 24, 2009 06:03 am | |||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 | I didn't join the war clan at lvl 100. I joined the non-warring clan that only required lvl 85. I have just as much right to voice my dislike of any plan that is suggested as you all have to support it. I wasn't the one to allow lvl 85's to join WG. That decision was made by a council, who all those before me elected and felt could make the best decisions. So I don't want to hear complaining or people saying it has always been 100+ cause that is just not true. Or how would of I got in this clan? -------------------- Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~ | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 24, 2009 12:27 pm | |||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Maths Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1855 Member No.: 54 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 286 |
We don't have a non-warring clan anymore. Remember rachel, wars are mandatory  -------------------- "Journeys are what brings us happiness, Not the destination." ~ Two time ex-raid leader of wg ~ | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 24, 2009 01:03 pm | |||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 |
Look at my war badge. Actually look at my war attendance and compare to some of the others. I don't think any one can complain to much about my war attendance or my training or the amount of rune sets I own. My attendance has gone done only because I no longer skill while I am doing a very committed 100 days of training combat. I should of thought that would make people happy. Your only real complaint is that I don't happen to agree with your way of thinking. I have the same right as anyone else to voice my opinions on this forum in a non flaming way. I have not flame baited or broken any rules here. My stating that I joined a non-war clan is true. I am not lying or saying anything that everyone can't research and find the evidence that it is as I have said. -------------------- Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~ | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 24, 2009 01:52 pm | |||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Maths Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1855 Member No.: 54 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 286 |
Yeah but we "changed" into a warring clan. Which has skilling on the side. You have to change too. -------------------- "Journeys are what brings us happiness, Not the destination." ~ Two time ex-raid leader of wg ~ | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 24, 2009 02:55 pm | |||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Rage|Mike Group: Clan Friend Posts: 1948 Member No.: 1238 Joined: July 29, 2008 Total Events Attended: 132 |
It certainly isn't, which is why I suggested +105 for graduation not +115 requirements (Typical for a Powerhouse, which we aren't and won't be). Organization is great but it certainly sucks, we have people getting KO'ed in 20's matched options (Even high levels at times, but it's not that often). Tanking one thing, major perhaps, but it certainly won't win you a fight. You also need combat levels if you want to KO and pile properly. I didn't ask current members to train because I'm sure most will, not all but most eventually. But that's not the problem, the problem is that the majority of people come and go, so we have members who train very hard and may leave eventually, and then what? The majority come in low levels and just sit without training for a long period of time which severely hurts people's efforts in boosting our average. ------------ Useph: It certainly isn't a step back in community, because warring and PvP is a part of the community, so if it improves the community actually improves as well. As for skilling it won't be hurt because the skillers are mainly people like Anatcrafter and Moose, in fact having a higher level helps us out in a lot of events. If it would make you feel better, we could also propose a skill level requirement (One seperate for P2P and another seperate for F2P of course). If a member refuses to join us because we have 3 more levels for GRADUATION (Similar requirements as the current ones for application in this suggestion), then chances are they aren't dedicated enough. --------------------- Lefty:
100 to 105 is easily done if one spends 2 hours per day on it (They'll be done within 1 week - 2 weeks if they do it properly), besides, why would you think only level 100's would join us? We'd get 115s, 110s, 120s, 105s and people between 105-100
I don't like training combat myself, and almost everyone doesn't. As I said above remember we aren't only getting 100's, and we have a lot of events they can still attend (Event attendance is acquired usually 30 minutes after the event starts but can go up or down depending on the type of the event). If 100-105 truly takes that much work then that can be fixed easily, give them more graduation time. I personally still don't see why you're against a requirement raise that won't affect any current member. Remember that trial guardians are on a clan based Trial in which they have to prove their worth and hold their keep. If they say 'I don't want to train' when the requirements clearly said that they have to train then that IS NOT dedication, because they knew the requirements when they joined. --------------------- Rachel:
No one said you can't voice your concerns.
Never said it was 100+ because Lordy made the clan when he was like what, level 50? What I am saying is that we keep up while still not losing our identity as a community clan that does all sort of ingame activities. -------------------- MSN: [email protected] IRC: Rage|Mike at SwiftIRC and SeersIRC Drop me a comment, click to view my RSC profile! Proud to be ex-Wilderness Guardian. | ||||||||||||
Posted: February 24, 2009 02:55 pm | |||||||||||||
| IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 |
Ohh dear, so your saying I must of always gone to wars, trained and did combat things? Do you really believe I haven't changed? Come on that is lame. I have the levels to prove that I have changed. I can say that my combat percentage has come up since the "change" in the clan. Don't even attempt to claim that I haven't changed with the clan. This is not about me changing, it is about whether I agree with "changing" again and again to suit those that want to war and not be as concerned with community. Excuse me, I still think we are a community clan that wars and does skills too. We may have gotten more war based, but that doesn't mean we have to keep moving in that direction at the cost of losing our community. Everything comes at a cost. Reread what some of the others think as well. I'm not alone in thinking that the community needs to come first. It's not that I would ever deny you your warring. I know that even lil boys beat up each other with sticks. I don't think that changing the requirements is going to help the community. Decisions need to be evaluated as to why to do them and what the cost. The cost is to high. This clan has some basic principals that it is based on that makes it an awesome clan. Do you really want to mess with something that has stood the tests over time and survived? The family is what is most important not some post on rsc or level in some other persons view. -------------------- Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~ | ||||||||||||
Fair Compromise for New Requirements