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"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship |
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Posted: March 26, 2009 04:41 pm  | |||||
      IRC Nickname: Kiwi011 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3052 Member No.: 40 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 21    | Well, he was council and we gave him a shit load of shit when he was council.....I say its fine for him to be given exmember. If i was treated like he was I also would have treated everyone just as bad when i left. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 04:42 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129 | This was a politically difficult decision for me to make and I knew people would not be happy about it. I feel very dirty in having made it but it is the lesser of two evils. Rexibit0 (For want of your first name), your points are very strong. I am weakening the power of my bans, and I am potentially bringing harm in WG's way. I weighed up both the pros and cons and I am honestly still undecided on his future. Consider his ex-member to still be up in the air. NEVER will I barter a ban. I gave him ex-member because this is some sort of sign that proves him innocent. If he was anti-WG he wouldn't deliver us this information... However, I am still looking for evidence that proves him guilty. EDIT2: Apparently it wasn't Mugger who did Autokicks from #wg_wilderness... according to his own words. (01:55:53) <Lordy|Zzz> that stunt with you autokicking people from wgwilderness (01:56:00) <Lordy|Zzz> i had forgotten about that until someone raised it (01:56:04) <Mugger84> that wasnt me and it was prooven (01:56:05) <Lordy|Zzz> that's another mark against you (01:56:10) <Mugger84> Aardvark went to irc ops to check it (01:56:15) <Mugger84> it was dale who had access (Y) (01:56:19) <Mugger84> Go ask him if need be (01:56:31) <Lordy|Zzz> I'll ask the IRC admins myself (01:56:39) <Mugger84> Everyone pointed finger at me (Y) Then I got an apology from George when he found out (01:56:53) <Lordy|Zzz> I'm gonna check up on that --------------------  | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 06:19 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Gorgemaster Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 9840 Member No.: 3 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 540 | No proof that it was Dale.... well I don't have proof? Did I provide Mugger with an apology? Doesn't sound right to me.... I don't remember. --------------------    | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 07:12 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 |
Unproven and kind of baseless unless new information comes to light.  --------------------  | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 07:32 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: bto Group: Emeritus Posts: 3815 Member No.: 196 Joined: February 3, 2008 Total Events Attended: 332 | Doesnt sound right to me... Flippie has been a very loyal member, and has stuck through hard times. When we have 8 person raids, hes one of the people there. Keep in mind his post he made in level 2. WHY would he do that? Honestly, he practically gave every elite+ access to his account. I tried it out of curiousity when he made the post, and the details worked. I find it very hard to believe  -------------------- bto  Ex-WG Warlord  "It is our direction, not our intentions, that lead us to our destinations." | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 08:27 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Cam Group: Ex-Member Posts: 749 Member No.: 24 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 69 | Is there any way the council can sow us the evidence as to why he was banned, without giving away there spy-catching secrets? --------------------  Halo 3 - General Grade 3 ~ CoD4 - 10th Prestige 55 ~ MW2 - 9th Prestige 50 Joined WG 8th August 2006 - Im old School son | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 08:48 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Lefty Group: Emeritus Posts: 3340 Member No.: 1055 Joined: June 30, 2008 Total Events Attended: 211 | Honestly, I think his unbanning is bullshit. Complete and total bull. You tell us bans are permanent from that point forward and now there are 2 people unbanned. I can understand if there was a huge mistake on Pete, but Mugger did not follow his word. His reputation should be shot. He took an oath when he became council and then he disobeyed it. Do remember, the last time you banned someone for not following their 2 weeks notice, it was Robw56. Look where he is again... banned. Why? He left out of WG in a hurry and then burnt his WG shirt and posted it on the internet. Disgrace to the clan; who knows Mugger won't do it? You are being too loose on your word. The way I feel about this is, if I ever become council and I want to suddenly leave because I am mad, then I can just do "something good" for WG and then I am unbanned again. Yeah.. that is real fair. Either revoke your decision to say all bans in WG are permanent or keep it. Don't deviate from your word though, regardless if they do something good. EDIT: I severely doubt Dale still had access to #wgwilderness unless someone added him onto there. To add someone onto there, I believe (from seeing the access levels in there a few times) you have to be council. Who was council before that? Mugger, Glenn, Randy, George, and of course Gene. I know Gene didn't do it, George doesn't like Dale, and then I doubt Randy or Glenn would want to risk anything, so who does that leave? Mugger! Even if Mugger just gave Dale access, that is quite screwy. --------------------      | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 10:23 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Vephy Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 6186 Member No.: 813 Joined: June 10, 2008 Total Events Attended: 478 | You are potentially underestimating Mugger's manipulation maybe. I always thought he was a good guy while he was here. The way he acted thought at end... Leaving Council then messing with IRC(I wasn't there for that). It is just very odd and my guy feeling tells me this is a bad move. I can't back up it but just to say it just feels fishy. There is however reasonable doubt. Mugger wasn't explicitly proven guilty for the IRC incident as I understand it? Most evidence for this seems to point more toward him than anyone else. He never gave you an alternative theory other than Dale did it. Lefty was right in saying who would give Dale access. At least your doing the right thing in suspending making him ex-member. This could all be a way to confuse and kinda cause unrest though :\ You say your evidence is conclusive however. I'd like to see it but you probably wouldn't show it. --------------------   | ||||
Posted: March 27, 2009 02:05 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | Rob burnt his shirt? Seriously? For some reason that strikes me as insanely funny.  -------------------- | ||||
Posted: March 27, 2009 02:16 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 7306 Member No.: 47 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 343 | Bull fucking shit. Bans are not permanent, I am disgusted with this decision, show some fucking backbone in your decisions. Flip shouldn't be banned and yet you already have shown complete disregard for your own statement about bans being permanent, just retract it now since you've already proven you can't keep your word. -------------------- July 5, 2007 - June 27, 2011 | ||||
Posted: March 27, 2009 02:53 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Matt|Multi Group: Emeritus Posts: 668 Member No.: 49 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 12 | Honestly, how do we know for sure, it's not just another sad attempt by Mugger at doing damage to the clan? Who REALLY benefits from the removal of his ban? He does. Flippie was on his way out anyways, so even if he was a spy, we don't benefit hardly at all from his banning. Even if irrefutable evidence comes to light that Mugger didn't do anything wrong, he STILL violated his two-weeks notice and banned himself, and for that reason if none other, the ban should stick. If his access is restored, all it shows people, is that they can "buy" their way back in, which among other things, may lead to the fabrication of false evidence, simply so they can get ex-member or clan friend. I know that the bargain was made with good intentions, and finding and booting spies is a good thing, but at what cost? I'd rather have 100 spies in WG than have to "sell out" so to speak, to someone who is no longer supposed to be welcome in our community. -------------------- Born at sea, baptized in blood your fame will never die. Your Division is one of the best if not the best division in the history of American arms -Gen George S Patton on the 45th Infantry Division  | ||||
Posted: March 27, 2009 03:07 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Slayer123121 Group: Ex-Member Posts: 319 Member No.: 1753 Joined: March 6, 2009 Total Events Attended: 12 |
I know what you mean but come off it RSC USED TO BE ALOT BETTER than it is now, now it just involves fights (for the top clans anywayz) Vr claim they won, Df claim they won cos Vr cheated and Di reckon they won cos they owned both. The smallers clans i understand as it's a way to advertise there clan and get there name out, but RSC used to be alot better with ALOT more respect involved it's gone down hill over time. Back on Topic still don't see Mager as a spy and don't belive he was. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: March 27, 2009 03:12 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Tttkaab|Brandon Group: Ex-Member Posts: 622 Member No.: 123 Joined: January 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 53 | Flippie a spy? Rofl that's bullshit, he came to MY events when I was a raid leader. That's how long he's been here, that's how long he's been dedicated for. I don't see him being a spy but I don't care if Mugger gets unbanned or not to be honest, a ban always has been a joke, it's stupid anyways seeing as people change at different points in their lives. I'm happy to have Mugger back but it disgusts me that people would even consider one of the most loyal and most active members of our time a spy. Give him some credibility god damn. I'm sure there must be an over-exaggeration, or there misconception of what "spying" really is. Either that or you're just being too sensitive Elias. Give Flippie a break. Brandon -------------------- Ex-Wilderness Leader of WG. I'll always be here for the people that need me. RS Accounts: Sadcon1, Tttkaab & T Dwag | ||||
Posted: March 27, 2009 10:01 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 | If you said Muggers was a spy I would have no problem accepting it but Flippie. Somehow that makes no sense at all. If you go look at Pete's thread when he got banned you'll see I was one of the few that knew he wouldn't do what Muggers was claiming he did. Muggers lied about him. What is to say he isn't lying about Flippie. I was told about evidence on Pete and none was ever shown and it was all just Muggers trying to get his way I'm sure. I love that Petester is back in WG. He makes it easy for me to have someone to help me with combat things and he is fun to play with. Don't overlook what Colin is saying either. Muggers was very bias in how he treated certain members of the clan. I had many arguments with him over it in private. When I finally had enough of his crap towards me and those I love, I ended up with the clan mad at me over the signature I made about his bias. Don't think that his bullying members didn't make us lose them. He would look for ways of getting rid or forcing people to leave he disliked. He is manipulative and not trustworthy. His loyalty was to the power he got from being council and over people. His heart was not that of a good leader that really cared for all the people he lead. Gene your the heart of the clan, your forgiving us all the time and overlook our little downfalls. You have to know what I'm talking about. I'll try to be friendly and hope for the best. I don't like the unbanning rule. I think I've said that a few times on the forums already. It doesn't make any sense to not allow for unbanning. Some people go through phases of their life that they get over and then can come back and be great members. This last time Rick was with us, he was fighting something very serious in life . . . I strongly disagreed with his banning too. EDIT: Muggers should not be trusted. Although I would not have had him banned at time of leaving, he prooved he deserved the rank once he was gone. --------------------  Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~  | ||||
Posted: March 27, 2009 03:57 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Bam Group: Emeritus Posts: 2762 Member No.: 131 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 111 | the day mugger joins WG i will be getting out of here. --------------------   | ||||
Posted: March 27, 2009 08:05 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Ansatsublade Group: Emeritus Posts: 765 Member No.: 101 Joined: January 3, 2008 Total Events Attended: 120 | Hearing that Flip was a spy was a hard blow in my face, one I know I'll never recover from. The unbanning, it is making me lose faith to be completely honest. I'm losing hope on where we are going and the more I witness it, the less I like it. Flip was one of the pillars in our clan, and it saddens that you are selling his hides so easily. While granting forgiveness (even if it's only temporarily) to someone who had done a lot more harm to begin with. I hope you know what you're doing... --------------------  | ||||
Posted: March 27, 2009 08:54 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Lefty Group: Emeritus Posts: 3340 Member No.: 1055 Joined: June 30, 2008 Total Events Attended: 211 | As I just said in IRC:
So yes, why are we? We are letting Mugger back in and we are letting VR sit in our lobby, when they have been known for their non-honor ways. If you make a decision stick to it. Don't go against our clans rules to change something and let something little slide, because once you break the rules a little for one person, you are going to be a little more lenient to someone else who did something a little worse. For gods sake.. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: March 27, 2009 08:58 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 7306 Member No.: 47 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 343 | +1 to the two above posts. I think your own members should be more important than people who aren't in WG. -------------------- July 5, 2007 - June 27, 2011 | ||||
Posted: March 27, 2009 09:16 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: txtawkin/kathy Group: Ex-Member Posts: 847 Member No.: 1604 Joined: December 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 45 | If bans are permanent, the ONLY reason that they should be repealed is if the ban had been unjustly enforced in the first place. Banned members should not be able to "bargain" their way out of a ban for any reason. Unenforced rules are worthless, no matter what spin you put on it. Lordy, you say that the "happiness of members is more valuable" to you than mugger, well it appears that the overwhelming opinion of the members responding to this post is against the "unbanning". I believe that by allowing this "unban" to stand, you have lost the respect of many of the guardians, myself included. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: March 27, 2009 10:19 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 | Remember, that Gene has a heart for the clan. He won't hurt us ever on purpose. When he had Muggers in his council, he was happy and not as stressed. I think that might be the memory that got Muggers back in. -------------------- Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~ | ||||
Posted: March 28, 2009 12:49 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Tttkaab|Brandon Group: Ex-Member Posts: 622 Member No.: 123 Joined: January 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 53 | I wouldn't be surprised if Mugger was being bias. This is absurd, spies don't come as dedicated as Flippie, their objectives would be different from Flippie's. He's the real victim here. Brandon -------------------- Ex-Wilderness Leader of WG. I'll always be here for the people that need me. RS Accounts: Sadcon1, Tttkaab & T Dwag | ||||
Posted: March 28, 2009 12:53 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Havochaha Group: Ex-Member Posts: 2257 Member No.: 106 Joined: January 5, 2008 Total Events Attended: 113 | Flippie wasn't a spy he was a leaker to zlatan theirs a difference. -------------------- Havochaha Perm Banned Oct 1st 2009 Havochaha Unbanned February 13th 2011  http://www.erepublik.com/en/referrer/Omar+Dandan How to Make 10m an Hour | ||||
Posted: March 28, 2009 02:05 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 |
Your right. They were close friends. If he told him anything I'm sure it was two friends having a normal chat. -------------------- Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~ | ||||
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