I don't think we're expending any of our ocmmunity on winning. And winning makes everyone happy, the whole spirit of the clan is uplifted. If you've ever won a big fight with WG, which I'm sure you have, you know that nothing compares to that feeling, and how much the clan morale benefits.
 
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I don't think we're expending any of our ocmmunity on winning. And winning makes everyone happy, the whole spirit of the clan is uplifted. If you've ever won a big fight with WG, which I'm sure you have, you know that nothing compares to that feeling, and how much the clan morale benefits.

Tbh, I know you've been here for over a year, but imo you haven't been here long enough to see what I'm talking about. It's a pretty dismal disconnect, since you guys have no idea what WG used to be like or what we once achieved. I don't mean to play the old school card too heavily, but seriously, you guys have no idea.

And when the people who have been here for years, like Robbie, speak up from a position where they can bring YEARS of experience to the situation, they get roasted by people who can't comprehend what WG used to be. So while you guys go chasing a momentary high from winning wars, the true spirit of WG is being crushed.

The fact that so many of us who don't even play RS anymore are so keen on these discussions about WG should be proof enough that what we once experienced, and what we would like to share with all the rest of you today, is so absolutely phenomenal compared to what WG is today that we can't even hope to explain it to anyone.

It wouldn't be a problem if we saw the new schoolers doing things which are new or innovative, but all anyone ever does is the same old shit. We KNOW it doesn't work but not enough people ever listen, and there's never enough of us old schoolers around to influence the rest of you so WG goes around in a constant spiral.

We're trying to help you. We're showing you what we know and what we know you need to know. But no one ever listens. No one even tries. Even a little experiment, a 1-month trial of new ideas; but no, it's just WIN WIN WIN RECRUIT RECRUIT RECRUIT. Don't you see you can get it all and more if you'd just let yourself believe?

Well spoken.
 
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I don't think we're expending any of our ocmmunity on winning. And winning makes everyone happy, the whole spirit of the clan is uplifted. If you've ever won a big fight with WG, which I'm sure you have, you know that nothing compares to that feeling, and how much the clan morale benefits.

Tbh, I know you've been here for over a year, but imo you haven't been here long enough to see what I'm talking about. It's a pretty dismal disconnect, since you guys have no idea what WG used to be like or what we once achieved. I don't mean to play the old school card too heavily, but seriously, you guys have no idea.

And when the people who have been here for years, like Robbie, speak up from a position where they can bring YEARS of experience to the situation, they get roasted by people who can't comprehend what WG used to be. So while you guys go chasing a momentary high from winning wars, the true spirit of WG is being crushed.

The fact that so many of us who don't even play RS anymore are so keen on these discussions about WG should be proof enough that what we once experienced, and what we would like to share with all the rest of you today, is so absolutely phenomenal compared to what WG is today that we can't even hope to explain it to anyone.

It wouldn't be a problem if we saw the new schoolers doing things which are new or innovative, but all anyone ever does is the same old shit. We KNOW it doesn't work but not enough people ever listen, and there's never enough of us old schoolers around to influence the rest of you so WG goes around in a constant spiral.

We're trying to help you. We're showing you what we know and what we know you need to know. But no one ever listens. No one even tries. Even a little experiment, a 1-month trial of new ideas; but no, it's just WIN WIN WIN RECRUIT RECRUIT RECRUIT. Don't you see you can get it all and more if you'd just let yourself believe?

Well spoken.

Well I don't know the oldschool stuff, and you don't know anything about the current clan world. We're both handicapped in that sense. And we are trying to push through things that are new and innovative, just things that you disagree with .

Sure Id happily try you/robbies idea for a month or two. I'm willling to try anything. But I highly doubt it would work.

Look the clan world is changing, ALOT. From 2006, the clan world memberwise has easily been cut in half, maybe more. Top clans are closing left right and center, every month it seems. DI, Se, EH, RDC, FoF, and numerous other top 10 clans and mid-sixed clans that I didn't mention. We have to stay competetive in this ever changing clan world, if you want to be competetive, we have to be atleast alright at wars to have a stable member base. People aren't looking for weak clans that have a decent community anymore, many are looking for solid pking clans that they can have fun in. Many top clans have excellent communities, and are also obviously very good at pking. YOU CAN HAVE BOTH. Good clans aren't just these black voides that suck away people's soles and makes people slaves to pking.
 
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That argument isn't anything new. But saying a great war record will make a great clan is like saying great sex will make a great relationship. There's no cause or effect going on there, all the sex does is make you want to put up with the other bullshit enough to ignore it. The relationship (aka; community) should come first and the great sex (aka; wars) will follow.
 
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That argument isn't anything new. But saying a great war record will make a great clan is like saying great sex will make a great relationship. There's no cause or effect going on there, all the sex does is make you want to put up with the other bullshit enough to ignore it. The relationship (aka; community) should come first and the great sex (aka; wars) will follow.

I think everyone pretty much agrees on that now. Prioritizing the community over becoming a powerhouse is the way to go, let's do it, before we change our minds.
 
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[05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic
[05:42] <%kat> same

But you see, it doesn't happen. If that happened, then great. But, what really happens is that the warring/raiding brings them in... and then they end up with less time and become emeritus. They only end up sticking around to become moral support, because of all these activity requirements.

Now, I'm not saying that we should lose all wars and do horribly at raids. Thats not fun, for anyone.

What I am saying is that we shouldn't try to follow the path of "recruit high levels, super activity, raiding constantly". We should not fight people on their turf, by there rules.
If we have a large number of 105s, and other clans have the same number of 118s, we all agree that it won't be a fair fight, correct? What we should do is only fight people who give us a fair handicap of one sort or another.
Also, don't fight matched opts. Only fight full-out. If we fight full out against a smaller clan who expects to win because they know we won't pull more than say 30% of our memberlist, and we end up pulling 50%... well, we have a good chance of winning.
As such, lets make it so that weekly expected attendance is less... but occasional attendance is expected, especially for extremely important events. If we have a ranked war that we have been preparing for for 6 months, and its -the- event, everyone might get up at 4AM on a school day to come. But if it happens -every- two weeks or so, why bother?
Also, instead of levels, we should focus on organization. We should have our higher levels(who have been around for a while) do specific things in wars, increase tactics and communication - we can do a lot with that.

I want you guys to go look up the DOA war - Lordy created a frigging flash video showing the tactics we were going to be using. Yet, since then, I have only seen that same prep tactic used a handful of times. Its sad. Now, instead of counting on a highly-organized force of lower levels, we have a bunch of half-trained high levels, and it obviously hasn't helped.

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One more point:
You all seem to act as if recruiting high levels will solve all our problems. All I have to say is go look at our history. All these ideas and more have been tried, with varying levels of success. If one idea had worked extremely well, don't you think it would be in use today?

-Robbie


 
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Thank you! Even Gene himself said our strength is in numbers and outpulling the other clan but all I've seen nowadays is matched matched matched
 
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[05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic
[05:42] <%kat> same

Thank you! Even Gene himself said our strength is in numbers and outpulling the other clan but all I've seen nowadays is matched matched matched

At our present state, if we fight a clan relatively our size and we fight full out, they will outpull us and outlevel us. And most clans aren't always loooking for full outs, even top clans do matched opts just to keep their skills up. It's great for practicing .

How would we know if it doesn't happen? We've never been consitantly good since way back when we were a powerhouse, and it seemingly worked then eh? When the summer started up this year, we started doing very well in p2p, and people on RSC and other fansites saw that, and we had a good many intros/apps come in.

And No, they don't end up with less time. People that actually like pking and warring, want more and more of it, like in the summer, we couldn't get enough of p2p raiding. None of them feel like they have less time to do anything irl, because they love being active in the PvP aspect of their clan. Our activity requirements are jack shit compared to other clans that pk 5-7 times a week, and have around 2 wars, and often a PKRI. That's a little much, however we raid max like 3 times a week, and have maybe one more. THAT'S NOTHING. That takes up max 7 hours out of your whole week, if you make it to all of them which is unlikely.

wat. It's about being good, so we might actually be able to fight said clans.

Those are hard to get.

Well for one thing, we don't have a weekly expected attendance...and why should we make it less when hardly anyone is even active as it is? This just brews overall clan inactivity and event skipping. And by not having many wars or pking, you're just asking everyone that's serious about warring and pking to leave. And I agree, we should stick to small matched opts fights for the most part, only having big wars about every 3-4 weeks.

It's hard to be organized when all of the low levels are getting koed left right and center, and before you can do anything half your clan is dead while you only dropped 1-2 from the other clan. And often sneaky tactics only go so far, it's usually just the basics, binding, transitioning, tanking, that wins the day.

Again, the clan world is very different now. Back then alot of clans had quite low reqs, lower than today anyways. Nowadays, most real clans have higher reqs. This was also from what I believe, a war in which nobody returned, nowadays, pretty much all clans would have returned in a war like that, which would've made tactics like that very effectivei n the beginning, but nowadays it would be easy for the other clan to recover from that, and call a regroup and be an effective fighting force again. It also doesn't matter as much what levels they are when there is like 100v100 people, however we can never hope to pull that much nowadays.

I don't think it will solve ALL of our problems. And most don't work because Lordy doesn't agree with them, so it's doomed to failure from the outset.
 
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Thank you! Even Gene himself said our strength is in numbers and outpulling the other clan but all I've seen nowadays is matched matched matched

There are not many clans that we can overpull
most clans that we can overpull wont war us because our ml is to big. We need to get rid of the inactives.
 
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Thank you! Even Gene himself said our strength is in numbers and outpulling the other clan but all I've seen nowadays is matched matched matched

Well, we tried numbers at the DW war, and you low levels failed to tank. So yea, numbers doesnt work anymore.
You lower levels generally cant tank, which loses us wars. And some of you are basically refusing to train. So like, Yea, cool.
 
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