You can't make skipping events ok while magically hoping that event turn out will be better. The optional raids are a waste; raids were once mandatory, and to make optional raids where we get destroyed because we pull 8 people isn't beneficial at all. It often crushes our morale. Raids and wars without sign ups because the leaders of those events are too lazy to check the topic often leads to worse attendance because people can feel like they have no obligation to come, and could go and play xbox instead.

If you want better attendance, I'll give you a plain and simple option. Have an activity requirement. You MUST attend a certain amount of events in any number of days/weeks or you will be suspended/kicked. Even if a player has done nothing wrong, if they can't play Runescape enough and give enough time to the clan, they aren't qualified to be in WG. I think I remember this being a rule in the earlier WG. It may sound harsh and too strict, but if you want an active clan, it could be a necessary step.

I blame the leadership, and sorry if I was too harsh about this, because members give plenty of topics and ideas that never form into anything. I can't recall any new changes to the clan policy in the recent months, other than the 70 range requirement, which is such a minor and obsolete change, it will not effect the clan at all.

I don't have time to address the other issues the clan has at the moment, as it is not my job but I may come back and edit my post later.
 
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It IS your job to bring up issues , especially when asked for them by a leadership team who WANT TO HELP. But meh.

Yeah because you can see lvls 3 + 4 .
./sarcasm

Optional raids are a waste? What?? You mad bro? The point of WG for most members is to have fun. Optional raids cannot always be mandatory - eg: when like 9-10 people want to raid on the spur of the moment, it is ridiculous for a raid leader to ask for mandatory attendance at the last minute, people may be doing other things, have other commitments.
Does this mean we should cut out all last minute events? No. Because they provide enjoyment for many many members.

This post has aimed to underline the fact that 99% of WG are in it for FUN.
 
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Fun is actually winning wars.

Fun is getting pulls that show an acceptable proportion of our memberlist.

I don't find it fun going out on the KO unit bullshit because we can't pull enough people. If you make that mandatory, then we would have enough people to actually raid.
 
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Best thing you've ever said George /gives cake

I don't really mind wether WG becomes a top 10 clan or not. Of course yeah it would be cool if we did, but as long as our community, atmosphere and events are friendly, fun and successful, I'll be happy.

Going extreme on rules and punishments isn't my idea of progress though.
 
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[05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic
[05:42] <%kat> same

Fun is actually winning wars.

Fun is getting pulls that show an acceptable proportion of our memberlist.

No that's not 'fun', that's 'success'. Fun is fighting the war, and going out into battle or onto a raid with 75%+ of the ML. Fun is excitement, adrenaline, intensity.

Success is also nice and reccomended, but not compulsory. I had fun at the Great War, and even on KO unit raids it's pretty nice.
 
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[05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic
[05:42] <%kat> same

Being extremely lax with rules isn't progress either.

We might as well become a skilling/community clan at that point. If you don't have anything to promote or to enforce, then people will lost interest, as the events will become less interesting. It is a never ending cycle.

Members blame the council for not doing much about anything.
Council blames the members for not being active, and constantly promises that changes are happening.

This same instance happened with me back in June/July and the only big changes that I saw were council elections and Lordy coming back with intentions to be a full-time leader.

I was told that big changes were going to happen before the beginning of February. I have not seen any yet. People are being too lax when it comes to having the initiative to do something, and in the end it screws us over. Take things by the reigns and get WG moving rather than letting it sit stagnant. At the moment, we are just losing members because they see no progress.

No intentions to leak much, but I have not seen anything productive going on in any member's level forums. It is a lot of members talking about members and the same problems that are being discussed in the clan-wide forums.

If the council wants to have a little support from the members who can't do much, then at least give them a sneak peak or a portion of discussion. Move something down to Level 2 to allow Elite Guardians to give their input. You complain that it takes too long to get responses from all tertiaries, well maybe you will get enough responses from Elites (the highest recognized non-staff rank, which should mean something) to get something done quicker.

There is honestly no reward for being a higher rank other than reading all of the extra shit that is supposedly entrusted on the members. I feel like I have no say or anything that goes on in this clan, especially due to there being no "official" discussion in anywhere that I can post. If you want to get all members involved in the clan, then allow us all to give opinions.

It might have its damages on the community, but all the while it will bring us together, because we will all be trying to find a cause to improve the quality of WG.

EDIT: To prevent double-posting:

@Keanu: Success leads to fun. Sorry I don't have fun after not winning a war in 15 wars. We might have had fun at the Great War, but we continue to get slaughtered day in, day out. There is no fun in watching it happen. You might have fun because you watch your clan fight, but a winning WG is a funner WG. I have had my experience with it, and it definitely is a better place.

KO units still are a sack of shit. Just my honest opinion. Fun to do different things, but it is a waste of time. It does not show clan strength at all. And it doesn't improve any skills that we have.
 
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It IS your job to bring up issues , especially when asked for them by a leadership team who WANT TO HELP. But meh.

Yeah because you can see lvls 3 + 4 .
./sarcasm

Optional raids are a waste? What?? You mad bro? The point of WG for most members is to have fun. Optional raids cannot always be mandatory - eg: when like 9-10 people want to raid on the spur of the moment, it is ridiculous for a raid leader to ask for mandatory attendance at the last minute, people may be doing other things, have other commitments.
Does this mean we should cut out all last minute events? No. Because they provide enjoyment for many many members.

This post has aimed to underline the fact that 99% of WG are in it for FUN.

I'm sure you talk in 3+4 all the time, but talking does nothing when you'll deny every idea that anyone has. As a regular guardian I feel like I have almost no power with the clan, so I also feel it is not my job to decide what is right and wrong for WG. It's been stated plenty before that WG is not a democracy, therefore it is not my job.


Optional raids that are official, planned out events ARE a waste. We never have someone post in IRC, "Hey guys wanna raid?" with 9 or 10 yes's spur of the moment, it just doesn't happen right now in WG. Why? Because when we have these low pulls and head to world 26 because there are no easy clans out, we get raped, and then end. At the end of the raid people count their losses and see they're 3 or 4 sets down and the thought of raids are no longer fun and profitable, but frustrating and create deficit. This is all because of the optional raids that pull such low numbers. I know people often complain about the lack of raids, etc, but the tone will be the same when people complain about always losing and dieing in raids and wars.

And quoting internet memes never makes a good debate.
 
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Good point.

Fuck it, I'ma stay out of this one.
 
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[05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic
[05:42] <%kat> same

Sadly, that's the only way out.

The good old motivational talks aren't.
Promoting people and having more events isn't either.

You have to take WG as it is, not as you'd like it to be, and only once you're there, can you work with it.

What's WG, today?

It's 30 to 40 active or semi-active people - and a good hundred of more or less RS inactive people, this last group including the primary leader.

It all starts by acknowledging that fact.

Then, what can you do with these people. Who wants what. Who needs what. Who can do what for you and how well they can do it.

Trying to hold together a frame from which members crumble away is hopeless. Change the frame. Requirements are a small part of that frame.

Then there are endless possibilities on which way the clan could go, but it can go nowhere but downhill if we keep thinking along the lines WG has strolled along for the past 6 years... and this is especially true for the oldest of us here.

With WG as it is right now, I don't see why VERY daring changes shouldn't be made to the way it runs.
I'm conscious I have no right to say anything like this - but since we were invited to do so I just will:

most wars are won in the IRC channels, not in the tree to tree area in the wilderness. It's when you fight, how you coordinate people to be there to fight, how you choose your opponent by speculating on how many he's going to pull etc.

The root of the problem is that we want to be WG: this memberlist, these forums, this site, all unity. When in reality, we're not united.

But that frame we try to present, and that we dream to make better, isn't what we should work with.
We should present something competitive, something upcoming, something efficient, something active. It's a matter of matching to standards. We have to stop being a rotten egg, it's just so obvious.

Revamp the policy.
 
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London RL Meeting attendee - Paris RL meeting attendee
Joined WG in October 2005 - Original DG - Ex-Raid Leader
Proud Council Member from October 21st 2007 to May 19th 2008

EDIT:Original post sounded different than what was meant.
 
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Wanting to make WG better is not slapping your efforts in the face. Distance yourself from that ego of yours or this'll get dangerous.
 
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London RL Meeting attendee - Paris RL meeting attendee
Joined WG in October 2005 - Original DG - Ex-Raid Leader
Proud Council Member from October 21st 2007 to May 19th 2008

Wanting to make WG better is not slapping your efforts in the face. Distance yourself from that ego of yours or this'll get dangerous.

This. I don't see how this is a slap in the face at all.
 
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Nobody is flaming here.

And I've been waiting for a year or so, don't feel like waiting another two weeks. Just because there's the claniversary and the Winter awards doesn't mean we can't suggest new things.
 
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Nobody is flaming here.

With all the I BLAME THE LEADERSHIP it's not really giving the council flowers and chocolates either.

I've been waiting just as long as you dude. Gene's the guy to look to when the clan goes into a state like this, and when he came back from the RL meeting, WG had that epic spike with the Great War that showed whatever he's got planned, it's working. I'm willing to wait another 2 weeks or more to see how it plays out.

Oh shit. I thought this topic was about raging at the leadership for not getting things done. My bad. What are we suggesting anyway?
 
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[05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic
[05:42] <%kat> same

Wanting to make WG better is not slapping your efforts in the face. Distance yourself from that ego of yours or this'll get dangerous.

The ego stays. It keeps me sane.
Take me completely as I am or not at all.
I'm going to do my best for WG and the ego is going to be with me on that trip.
 
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