What Tweek said.
I mean we're flopping in F2p because people don't want to believe we can be a devastating force in that style.
All we need are better binds and we're set, we already have the tanking and the piling down to a T.
Binds are something we need to focus on as well.
 
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Taken❒ Single❒ Mad✔
<+Mark``> i think the brothers GF is going into labour
<+Mark``> I WANNA WATCH YU-GI-OH

fix'd it for you.

How about we try to do more P2P wars? Instead of short prep F2P wars, make them P2P?
 
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fix'd it for you.

How about we try to do more P2P wars? Instead of short prep F2P wars, make them P2P?

I say scrap F2P altogether. Anyone remember the last time we won a F2P?
 
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[05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic
[05:42] <%kat> same

fix'd it for you.

How about we try to do more P2P wars? Instead of short prep F2P wars, make them P2P?

I say scrap F2P altogether. Anyone remember the last time we won a F2P?

Yes, the CWRI Eternity war hosted by Justin and LND war by Justin as well. That was matched.


Justin is returning to full activity soon. I still think we need a few more p2p war victories though.
 
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if so, why doesnt gene hype up ALL wars
 
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@Vephyrus, this would be a good start. WG used to be quite good at matched f2p wars short prep, fail historian should know that fact.
 
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July 5, 2007 - June 27, 2011

fix'd it for you.

How about we try to do more P2P wars? Instead of short prep F2P wars, make them P2P?

I say scrap F2P altogether. Anyone remember the last time we won a F2P?

Yes, the CWRI Eternity war hosted by Justin and LND war by Justin as well. That was matched.

Eternity had 2/3rds our numbers and we BARELY scraped that victory with the turnaround at the very end.

We've warred LND four times: lost twice, won twice. It's hard to judge from that.

When I say sectors I don't literally mean bring them back. Metaphorically speaking.

WG also used to be top 10 P2P. Should we go declare on RoT right now because we USED to?

Point being, we're #1 a P2P clan and #2 our strength is in outpulling. That's how we win wars. The only time I've seen a victory in failure is the Great War because of morality, and since then we've had Turning Tides and Gladz to make up for it. The VH war was a failure, where was the victory in that? All it showed was the obvious Saturday catch and that we can't win when our opts are doubled. I'd much rather have a victory in victory than a victory in failure, because the latter seems so rare it's bordering impossible.

And if the best WG come from constant failure and loss, shouldn't I be Stokenut by now?

I don't understand. We've tried and failed to improve on individual skill since I joined - we've hosted and lost numerous matched wars - both F2P and P2P-, numerous war practices, tank practices, and all in all has it really gotten us anywhere?

We've been saying that ever since I can remember. We still haven't succeeded in individual training. I personally don't think taking away one of our primary methods of victory will help us. I can see it proving that we can't win without outpulling, we'll end up on another losing streak, and people will lose the motivation to even attend wars - nevermind try and improve. But if you're 100% certain that doing short-prep matched opts fights in F2P will somehow help us, I'll give it a go. I agree with the concept of individual improvement but I STRONGLY doubt that going about it this way will aid us.
 
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[05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic
[05:42] <%kat> same

i use earth staffs


But I don't think we should neglect f2p. As BTO said just because we aren't winning a lot of f2p wars right now doesn't mean we should just give up.
Keep a good mix of both f2p and p2p. Theres areas we need to improve in both, f2p especially, so hopefully we can have some smaller matched opts/war practices to help people with that.

People need to want to learn though. If people aren't interested and are just ignoring all these practices and not taking everything in, then they aren't going to better themselves.
 
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24th to 2496 Overall   ~  29th to 120 Dungeoneering

~ Guardian since November 2007 ~

- I now play WoW lols -

Server: US Jubei'Thos       Faction: Horde
   85 Blood-Elf Paladin
  85 Troll Hunter

Two.

The LND war I wasn't there so can't comment. But we outpulled Eternity almost as bad as we outpulled Gladz, and 1) They took the lead for half the fight and 2) we had to work our asses off to catch the win. That's not "tough", that's more like "disgsting" seeing how badly we started off. If that was P2P we would have cleared them in seconds.

The variable there is "IF".

Blatiantly obvious:
- We're good in P2P, we suck in F2P.
- We win by outpulling, and we suck at -most- matched fights.

This is ironic coming from me, but put aside who we were in 2008. Back then we had a level of individual skill that made us a force to be reckoned with in a F2P or matched fight. We do not have that individual skill now.

I agree, it would be nice to get that skill back, but for one - I agree with Lee when I say F2P is a waste. We have no interest in F2P, otherwise we would be good at it for a start and maybe incorporate it into our events. I can't remember the las-- no, actually the last F2P PvP event we had that wasn't war was my Megaraid months ago.

As for P2P matched... I hate matched fights. But I'd rather up the individual skill and fight the bigger clans in P2P and win, without having to heavily outnumber. And if we have any suggestions on how to do that please share them.
 
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[05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic
[05:42] <%kat> same

Two.

The LND war I wasn't there so can't comment. But we outpulled Eternity almost as bad as we outpulled Gladz, and 1) They took the lead for half the fight and 2) we had to work our asses off to catch the win. That's not "tough", that's more like "disgsting" seeing how badly we started off. If that was P2P we would have cleared them in seconds.

The variable there is "IF".

Blatiantly obvious:
- We're good in P2P, we suck in F2P.
- We win by outpulling, and we suck at -most- matched fights.

This is ironic coming from me, but put aside who we were in 2008. Back then we had a level of individual skill that made us a force to be reckoned with in a F2P or matched fight. We do not have that individual skill now.

I agree, it would be nice to get that skill back, but for one - I agree with Lee when I say F2P is a waste. We have no interest in F2P, otherwise we would be good at it for a start and maybe incorporate it into our events. I can't remember the las-- no, actually the last F2P PvP event we had that wasn't war was my Megaraid months ago.

As for P2P matched... I hate matched fights. But I'd rather up the individual skill and fight the bigger clans in P2P and win, without having to heavily outnumber. And if we have any suggestions on how to do that please share them.

we have had a raid since your megaraid,it wasn't much fun but we have had one.

It's funny how you used to be all about f2p and now can't even stand it.

We do need a mix of f2p and p2p the problem is knowing what clans we can beat to build momentum. Which is very difficult with the diverse time zones and the fluctuations in members turning up to a war. small clans who we may get a similar pull to won't accept fights due to our larger members list, then with matched opts generally we may out pull the clan but they have better average levels, which is extremely disappointing as we need to cut people and still end up losing half the time.


 
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Having a fight on the internet is alot like the participating in the special olympics
you may win, but you're still retarded

Best pker + most mature summer awards 2011

Two.

The LND war I wasn't there so can't comment. But we outpulled Eternity almost as bad as we outpulled Gladz, and 1) They took the lead for half the fight and 2) we had to work our asses off to catch the win. That's not "tough", that's more like "disgsting" seeing how badly we started off. If that was P2P we would have cleared them in seconds.

The variable there is "IF".

Blatiantly obvious:
- We're good in P2P, we suck in F2P.
- We win by outpulling, and we suck at -most- matched fights.

This is ironic coming from me, but put aside who we were in 2008. Back then we had a level of individual skill that made us a force to be reckoned with in a F2P or matched fight. We do not have that individual skill now.

I agree, it would be nice to get that skill back, but for one - I agree with Lee when I say F2P is a waste. We have no interest in F2P, otherwise we would be good at it for a start and maybe incorporate it into our events. I can't remember the las-- no, actually the last F2P PvP event we had that wasn't war was my Megaraid months ago.

As for P2P matched... I hate matched fights. But I'd rather up the individual skill and fight the bigger clans in P2P and win, without having to heavily outnumber. And if we have any suggestions on how to do that please share them.

No one in WG wants us to become a F2P powerhouse. I agree with lee, top tier F2P is not a fun place that we want WG to be in. We dont want 6 hour long f2p PKRIS and F2P Raids. They're not fun. Its long, boring, and requires numbers we dont have. But it is undeniable that F2P builds important skills that EVERYONE needs to have in order to improve . If you cant handle F2P, how the hell do you expect to compete in P2P?

If you want to suceed in today's clan world, you will not do it with numbers. Go ahead and try, and watch WG turn into the failure that RDK was. You can have all the numbers in the world, but if your organization and skill suck, you will still lose. You think that numbers will save you in the end? Wait until WG fights someone that can actually compete with us and tell me how fun it is when you lose with +15 people over them (Eternity). Then compare it to how much fun it is when you beat a clan that can barely match you in the first place when you have a +15 man advantage over them (Gladz)

The fact that P2P does not rely on numbers is why our switch from F2P to P2P when I was Warlord suceeded. We had tons of matched fights in both F2P and P2P, coupled along with raids. We had weekly tank practices, both in F2P and P2P that practiced core warring skills. We had guides and videos up informing and educating newer warrers. Any raid leader or any person who has talked to me know that my focus my entire time as Warlord was to improve the quality of the members. Once we had that accomplished, THEN we started venturing to much more difficult fights. Not vise versa.

That is why we suceeded. You guys have the capacity to pull much more than we did. A major difference between now and then though, is that we made our numbers count. Now, you guys rely on quantity, but back then, we relied on our quality. Each WG member could tank, pile, transition, and keep up with all the commands leader gave them without fail. Members were constantly drilled in F2P and P2P. its the reason why when we fought 40 Distortion + Friends with only 25 WG, we won.

Gene keeps making this big wars that hypes everyone up and gives us a great boost, but we are missing the critical things that let it continue. People are obssessed with getting our name out there, and continuing the flow. As a result, we get PKRIs and more Fullouts. If the quality of our fighters is lacking, what do you think will happen? Failure. All that momentum is drained into nothing, because numbers will not give us a victory. You NEED quality to succeed. Look at the last major wars; turning tides, the great war, and ask yourself why it was only temporary.

Over the past 3 years, I have watched and analyzed WG's slumps and growths. I've watched the individual styles and focuses of many Warlords and Raid leaders, and I've seen their weaknesses and strengths. You guys have all the ingredients and setup for success. I'm telling you guys the recipe.

Summary:
Do plenty of matched opts both in F2P and P2P. Single Target for now.
Continue P2P raids, but matched fights have priority.
Stay away from F2P raids and PKRIs.
Stay away from F2P fullouts for now.
Stay away from P2P fullouts for now.

Educate members; every member can be taught. Everyone must know how to tank, and be able to tank. Guides/Videos/Matched fights need to be provided.

Raid leaders need to be wiser in picking fights. Many fights recently have been highly questionable.

You cannot run. If you want to get better, there is no other way; eventually, it will be inevitable.
If you continue to rely on numbers and nothing else, you will not succeed.
 
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bto

Ex-WG Warlord

"It is our direction, not our intentions, that lead us to our destinations."

I know. When I joined I was always complaining about lack of F2P. 6 months later I couldn't stand it. That's WG for you.

And don't ask me why we're better at P2P when F2P is so stupidly simple. I don't know.

Take Raid Leader/Warlord again then, because we've already tried that and I don't think it helped much.

Apart from the summary, which is basically saying stop what we don't do and stop what we're good at for something we're incredibly poor at, your only other suggestion was:

I'll work on the guides and videos, the latter I can do. But Matched fights... I really don't think it will work. I can see us losing the matched fights, people being forced by the leadership to improve which will make wars work rather than fun, most won't, they'll stop wanting to come to wars, leave, losing streak, slump, dead. I've seen it before.

As for wiser fights... I'll agree on that.
 
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[05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic
[05:42] <%kat> same

"Better" is relative to the kinds of opponents you face.
If you face easy opponents and win often, you will assume that you are better.
Similarly, if you face hard opponents and lose, you will assume that "we suck," which is not neccessarily true.

Our numerical advantage in a fight hides our glaring weaknesses.

Take Raid Leader/Warlord again then, because we've already tried that and I don't think it helped much.

Wrong. Count the number of matched fights in the last 3 months and tell me again that "we've tried that." I count 2 (T0+LND). The rest are raids, pkris, and fullouts

I assume you're referring to F2P Pkris and Fullouts? Did you forget so fast about Eternity? BK?

I never said stop P2P, I said continue raids and matched. I did say we need to take a temporary break from P2P fullouts, because other than the morale boost and minor boost in recruitment (Which would be avoiding our quality problem), are not as beneficial as matched fights. Fullouts depend more on numbers and leadership. Matched depend on individual skill and organization.

I can agree that we're not top shape in terms of F2P matched opts, but like any push for improvement, you take baby steps. You dont start fighting clans like BK to get better. You take on easier clans that you can manage, such as LND.

Baby steps. Since I can tell you enjoy what we've been doing so far, and your argument relies on the fact that "if people dont have fun, they'll stop wanting to come to wars, leave, losing streak, slump, dead", then you can agree with me that winning is more "fun". Improvement doesn't necessarily mean we have to lose fights, nor does it mean that improvement results in the death of fun. I can guarantee that most people that have fought in a P2P matched fight, and lost, still had plenty of fun and would definitely attend again.

Make sure you back your arguments with evidence
 
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bto

Ex-WG Warlord

"It is our direction, not our intentions, that lead us to our destinations."