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"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship |
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Posted: August 26, 2008 07:44 am  | |||||
      IRC Nickname: Gorgemaster Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 9840 Member No.: 3 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 540    | You wouldn't go on about it in other clan IRC's so why dirty our IRC with it. Listen to Evil he is wise and is saying this for the good of the clan ~George --------------------    | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 09:24 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Abs Group: Emeritus Posts: 2071 Member No.: 4 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 97 | Lol. When Council or Primary Leader sets down a rule, it's a rule. Sure, you have freedom of speech and may speak against it. But Lol, that doesn't affect anything, you'll still suffer the punishment if you break the rule, whatever the punishment may be. If you want guys, just talk in personal message, or just make a new channel to talk about the Drugs. My view on Drugs is neutral, I don't like Drugs, however speaking about them shouldn't be that bad, although it depends about what exactly you speak about. If you talk about ways to handle Drugs, then that may influence other/younger members of the clan to try it out, simply talking about Drugs & how you feel about them is alright I suppose. But in no way am I supporting breaking rules =P ~Abs --------------------  "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Wg Council & Secondary Leader - 21/10/07 to 24/12/08 Msn: [email protected] | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 09:57 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Tnuac Group: Emeritus Posts: 1806 Member No.: 51 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 58 | I'm on the fence on this one. Although i've never done the drugs you speak of in my life, I've always found it rather odd that you can get a 10 year jail sentence by taking a drug which originally was actually made as a medicine. If it spawned anti-social behaviour, I'm all for it, but there's many drugs which don't do anything close to it. You'll probably find the vast majority of clans freely talk about it. But there again, we do have younger members of the clan who may well be influenced about people glorifying drugs, and we don't want to be responsible for that. Many of us aren't affected in the least by it, but there will be some suseptible.
I haven't seen marius around for a long time, but it definitely is something to consider, especially if WG still has enemies who are still out to get it down. As drugs are, for most of the world, against the law, and people in the clan do not like discussions about them, it is completely fair to lay down this rule. I would treat it similiar sex talk though - warnings before the banning, not just 1 word and poof. Bear in mind - alcohol is a drug. A drug which is potentially far more dangerous than any other drug. If we have a policy on other drugs, what's going to happen about alcohol? Its worth laying down the position there. -------------------- ~Aetas: carpe diem quam minimum credula postero~ "Seize the day and place no trust in tomorrow"  | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 10:16 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: [JC] Group: Emeritus Posts: 3320 Member No.: 23 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 147 |
Yes I titally agree there, however I am targeting Illegal drugs mainly. I would be surprised if many people found alcohol and its consumption very offensive, as more than likely most of the clan has at least tried alcohol to some extent whether it be a glass of wine with dinner or a beer with dad. Obviosuly there will be some situations where regardless of talking about alcohol being considered fine you cross the line and are kicked for a variety of other reasons of course. --------------------  Old awards wat Most Mature & Most Honourable Most Dedicated|IRC Freak|Best Emeritus Placeholder lolz | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 10:32 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 | Nothing is wrong with discussing your personal issues with drugs in private. I have to agree with it not being wise to discuss in public places. Although you may think you know each other well, who is to say we don't have a our own police in the channel. When you joined the clan you knew there would be rules to keep the community good for the whole of the clan. Although you feel your freedom of speech is dampered, actually it is protecting the weak. Maybe someone is in recovery and doesn't need the tempation of hearing it. Be respectful to our leaders and other members. This is not offensive to me. I have only rarely drank wine myself. The staff has my support on this issue. One warning is fair enough with a boot, then more serious after that. As always, JC is showing true wisdom and maturity in his leadership position. Thanks JC for all you do for us. Even protecting us from ourselves. --------------------  Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~  | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 10:45 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Jaxx Group: Ex-Member Posts: 365 Member No.: 109 Joined: January 5, 2008 Total Events Attended: 2 | My sig, FTW. Last i heard this isn't the army, its an online GAMING clan, no gaming clan has the right to take freedom of speech under threat of punishment, im pretty sure thats more illegal than talking about drugs. Edit: Oh and on that note, you have to defeat lordy who i find to be the founder of this clan because he sets the example by recording videos of himself getting stoned, then goes on TS when hes stoned. So im pretty sure the example has been set and we follow the way of the founder. Tyvm. --------------------    | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 11:06 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Tnuac Group: Emeritus Posts: 1806 Member No.: 51 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 58 |
Though don't underestimate the issues alcohol can cause. Some time ago the IRC saw a vicious argument when 2 people, I won't mention names, were claiming there was nothing wrong with alcohol, meanwhile one member who had had a bad history of alcohol abuse in his/her family was extremely pissed off at how they glorified it. It caused a lot of ill-feeling, being a touchy issue. Anyway, if talk about alcohol was banned it would be extremely over-the-top and create even worse controversy. Every case should be judged by its merits. Alcohol is one drug i do take, from time to time  -------------------- ~Aetas: carpe diem quam minimum credula postero~ "Seize the day and place no trust in tomorrow" | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 12:03 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Mike|Sonix Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1483 Member No.: 13 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 103 | One restriction after another. Whatever, it wasn't exactly the "hot topic" in IRC all the time. It was just a little discussion every few days, I guess its no big deal. --------------------   | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 12:13 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Cody|Mustang Group: Ex-Member Posts: 321 Member No.: 73 Joined: January 1, 2008 Total Events Attended: 44 | Wow get over it welcome to the real world... Lifes tough get a helmet... -------------------- | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 12:40 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Kiwi011 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3052 Member No.: 40 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 21 | wg isnt a democracy, its a dictatorship....so sdfu grow up and leave it. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 01:05 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: [JC] Group: Emeritus Posts: 3320 Member No.: 23 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 147 |
EXACTLY.... a Gaming clan which involves a variety of age groups and demographic, which as part of my role as a council member I am tasked with protecting. Many of WG are not at the age where they can legally consent to anything. This is a clan of over a hundred people, just because 2 or 3 (or even 10) people wish to talk about drugs does not mean they have the right to ruin other peoples enjoyment of A) being in our IRC channel or  being in WG.I am by no means taking away your right to talk about it.... if you are so desperate to talk about drugs you are more than welcome to talk about it in PM or your private IRC (channels which I am sure some of you have) but you may not talk about it in #WG or #WG_Lobby. -------------------- Old awards wat Most Mature & Most Honourable Most Dedicated|IRC Freak|Best Emeritus Placeholder lolz | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 01:05 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Owennnn Group: Emeritus Posts: 1447 Member No.: 37 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 55 | While yes, technically it is hampering "freedom of speech", people need to understand that alot of people maybe don't want to hear about you doing a lung, snorting a line or whatever. All the people who are complaining about their rights being abused, think about the people who don't want to hear about drugs, at all, and try to be a bit more sensitive. It's all about trying to be mature, if the few of you that do want to discuss drugs want to talk about them that much, go to #wg_drugs or something. The point is, the LEADERSHIP, does not want to hear about drugs, as well as alot of the clan don't want to hear about them either. The leadership has the power to do what it likes, as long as it is for the good of the clan, and I think this is a good move. However, Evil, I think a 24 hour suspension is a bit harsh as a first punishment, perhaps a warning and an IRC kick, or something before a full out 24hr suspension. Out of respect I will try to limit my discussions of alcohol while in the IRC. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 01:11 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: [JC] Group: Emeritus Posts: 3320 Member No.: 23 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 147 |
I have 24 hour suspension more as 'the worst that can happen' kind of thing, obviously it is going to be on a case by case basis as always  -------------------- Old awards wat Most Mature & Most Honourable Most Dedicated|IRC Freak|Best Emeritus Placeholder lolz | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 01:13 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 | I don't think it's right for you to take away any possibility for talking about drugs. I'm not a fan of them, and have never taking illegal substances, but I think they should be able to be debated if ever the chances occurs. I personally don't think you have the right to take away our option to even discuss drugs. There is a difference between a healthy discussion about people's views on drugs and whether or not certain ones should be legal due to medicinal properties or kept illegal and saying, "Dude I got so fucking stoned last night I couldn't even walk straight, you should start smoking this shit man, it's so fucking cool!" Obviously the first example (debate, conversation) could ultimately be healthy, while the second is what should be used as reason for banning. Also, take into account that there is also a difference between sharing a personal experience concerning drug usage and suggesting or glorifying drug use. "Hey, man, I tried pot once and it really messed me up and I felt terrible, just don't do it." Is different from, "Dude, you should totally try it, it feels soooo good." Which could both be in response to someone's dilemma where he/she is under peer pressure or is feeling "adventurous" but isn't sure. The topic itself shouldn't be banned outright, but comments or statements that make drug use seem "cool" or "alright" are what should be bannable offenses because encouraging illegal behavior is wrong and really shouldn't be tolerated. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 01:15 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Owennnn Group: Emeritus Posts: 1447 Member No.: 37 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 55 |
What colonel said. Discussion of drugs is not necessarily offensive to anyone, however any form of peer pressure, or bragging about drug use can be found offensive and should be monitored. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 01:18 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | I've never been a fan of the peer pressure argument, but I'm with Evil on this one. It'd be easy to start up another IRC if you feel like messing around; I'd probably join it.  He's taking a reasonable stand as an elected member of WG's council, respect it. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 01:18 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: [JC] Group: Emeritus Posts: 3320 Member No.: 23 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 147 | Since people aren't realising exactly what is happening.... just one of the logs today (obviosuly it is only a short section):
Times/names edited out so you can't try and find it yourself. I guess that comes under the second one then? -------------------- Old awards wat Most Mature & Most Honourable Most Dedicated|IRC Freak|Best Emeritus Placeholder lolz | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 01:23 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 |
That example is what I would deem banable, but I think making the choice to just outright ban the subject of drugs is a little much based on that. Obviously you won't ban someone for saying: "Hey I saw someone smoking pot yesterday," because all they did was state an observation. However if someone replied with, "Dude, you should have asked them if you could have had some!" Then they should be warned/punished accordingly. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 01:23 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Owennnn Group: Emeritus Posts: 1447 Member No.: 37 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 55 | Yeah that's probably not appropriate conversation for #wg. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 02:10 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Zlat Group: Clan Friend Posts: 2781 Member No.: 9 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 60 | Yea , you can talk about sex in there but not drugs. How funny does that make this rule then? --------------------   | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 02:22 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Colin Group: Ex-Member Posts: 2039 Member No.: 68 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 69 | Well, you know my stance, and I still think that banning all drug-related discussion is ridiculous. I will leave the thread now. That's a dictatorship for you, eh? --------------------   Proud WG member from January 2006 - Fall 2009 | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 02:36 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Geofff Group: Clan Friend Posts: 1238 Member No.: 608 Joined: May 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 96 | You could quite easily just make your own channel and talk about drugs in there. You will definatley have freedom of speech in there. I really do hate all this bullshit about freedom of speech. You KNOW you are not allowed to talk about certain things and it's also common sense to not talk about doing drugs and such. If someone higher up than you tells you to stop talking about it, you better just shut up instead of looking like a muppet and complaining about freedom of speech. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 02:44 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Woolachee Group: Clan Friend Posts: 165 Member No.: 688 Joined: May 24, 2008 Total Events Attended: 22 | Personally i dont see much drug talks on IRC, so it doesnt rly bother me... but if thats what you guys want, its what you guys get. so, life goes on. --------------------   | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 02:50 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Rai|James Group: Ex-Member Posts: 412 Member No.: 118 Joined: January 11, 2008 Total Events Attended: 0 |
Couldn't have said it better myself, Vince. You still suck though.  Colonel and Owen are on the right track as well.  I detest drinking, and any drug. But that doesn't necessarily mean it should never be talked about. As they said, if it's not bragging or peer pressing it shouldn't be that big of a deal when it comes down to it. -------------------- The Truth Is – Everyone is going to hurt you. You just have to decide who’s worth the pain.  Ex-Moderator Ex-DG Leader Ex-Council | ||||
Posted: August 26, 2008 03:03 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Jenny Group: Emeritus Posts: 1967 Member No.: 19 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 56 | The people who are doing this may think its all in fun and a game, but I guarantee you there is someone younger who looks up to you and may be influenced. Plus Evil has a point who wants Marius back on our asses? --------------------   | ||||
Talking about drugs in #WG