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"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship |
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Posted: September 28, 2008 11:26 pm  | |||||||
      IRC Nickname: leecable Group: Banned Posts: 1938 Member No.: 410 Joined: April 1, 2008 Total Events Attended: 178    | To be honest, Since when was PKRI mandantory? Never. My problem was, im useless. Im on a laptop. So touch pad, tanking isn't very easy with a touchpad. Im ok, at the piling, but tanking is impossible! So when people stopped returning, im just like, well if they cant be bothered, then niether can I. I got up early for the war earlier. Just gear up. I didnt both going to football, which was a top of the league game, for WG. So dont start saying that i disgraced WG. Randy, if im not mistaken, On IRC earlier, you said that since you had your binding robe things, you havent recharged them. And there still at like 20-40%? Since the first day they came out? That shows pure commitment my friend. Most of us have recharged our 2-3 times atleast. Ok, im getting angrier now. Im gonna stop, and chill out /rant. --------------------    | ||||||
Posted: September 28, 2008 11:27 pm | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Owennnn Group: Emeritus Posts: 1447 Member No.: 37 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 55 |
I don't remember ever signing anything involving a prerequisite number of wars to attend. EVENTS? yes, wars? no. And I do meet the activity requirements, just apprently not in the right places to some. -------------------- | ||||||
Posted: September 28, 2008 11:30 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: [Randy] Group: Raid Leader Posts: 5065 Member No.: 16 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 499 |
That was idiotic. I snipe at 75% of the wars I go to. The ones I do bind at, I only use to bind, and switch out immediately. Don't even tell me i'm not committed. --------------------   | ||||||
Posted: September 28, 2008 11:35 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: leecable Group: Banned Posts: 1938 Member No.: 410 Joined: April 1, 2008 Total Events Attended: 178 | Edit: Editing this out, as im getting really hacked off. And re-read it and thought that it was harsh. -------------------- | ||||||
Posted: September 28, 2008 11:37 pm | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: [Randy] Group: Raid Leader Posts: 5065 Member No.: 16 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 499 |
Oh, so not coming purposely and leaving purposely is committed? EDIT: No, this rant wasn't directed at EVERYONE. Read it again, it's directed at the specific few. -------------------- | ||||||
Posted: September 28, 2008 11:43 pm | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 |
I'll reiterate; when fights are fun, I'll fight. 1-hour PKRI = not fun.  The RuneScape combat system isn't balanced for PvP, and clans haven't done a thing to spice things up regardless, which leaves me thinking all wars and PKRIs are generally a waste of my time. I do try and show up to a few occasionally to support the clan - something I kind of consider a cost of membership - but I'm not overly enthused with attending every fight we have, especially optional ones. --------------------  | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 12:00 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Tnuac Group: Emeritus Posts: 1806 Member No.: 51 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 58 | Lol, here we go again. This is a deja-vu that has occured so many times. It simply wasn't a problem when we had different sectors, but while we are without sectors, its always been a sore spot in the proceedings. Not sure if my input is worth it, unless people can see both sides of the debate. Nevertheless, I'll give it my best shot. What is WG? A warring clan? A skilling clan? No, its both. And that is where the problem is. But is it a problem? The thing is - its a problem for some, and not a problem for others. Let me explain. In a clan like this you have 2 types of people (on some sort of spectrum): 1) Person A loves warring, wants to be at the the top, thinks everyone should be a team player 2) Person B is in the clan for the enjoyment. Not to win, but to have a good time, to skill as well as fight. WG will always have the 2 sorts, and its something we've gotta live with. We can't be a perfect warring tank, yet we still have to try to do our best at warring for those who enjoy it. Person A invisions WG as a combined warring unit aiming for the top. How fantastic it is to be known as the best, to pick up fighters along the way, to be shrouden in success. They think everyone should make the effort to come, and are understandably annoyed when people turn their backs - its for the name of the clan! You've got a whole day, why not spend this little time fighting for the clan and do a proper job? Person B doesn't have the same visions of WG. They see it as more of a community. A family more than an army. Sure, let's give warring our best shot, but lets not it take us over. Spread it out a little, let people be free to chose where they want to go. As long as they fit the activity req, what does it matter? So you see, this is why person A is fustrated. They want us to succeed, and when people dont even show, or walk from the battlefield, it sends morale down the hole. If you're just about doing OK with 30 people, and 3 people walk out, you start to lose possession of the war. Slowly, the other side pushes forwards, and the 27 lose morale. Now the 27 are wasting their time, and everyone who has attended the war has fought in vain. Only the ones who do it for pure enjoyment get the benefit out of it. When person A gets mad at person B, person B says why doesn't the same apply to other events? What makes wars so special? There again, person B isn't looking for ranks. What can we do about it? That's the burning question isn't it? How can we find the perfect compromise? I say there's 2 parts - one easy and one hard - both needed for perfect, or needed in some degree for success. Easy Organisation/skill/tactics, whatever you want to call it. However many people you have, if they don't work as a unit, they're no use on the battlefield. Just as rick says, this is one thing person A can ensure so that every person is valuable in the war and a little number can go a long way. I'm past this scene, its up to the raid leaders to train people, and how good our organisation is is a separate matter. All we can really do is practice, and make sure people know what they're doing. The piling is pretty good, and the raid leaders are fast and decisive, I think the next stage is training people how to stay alive. Difficult This bit concerns the numbers, what can you do about those who don't turn up? Well, as the title suggests, there's no easy solution. We've got an attendance req. It can't really be moved upwards, because it'll create controversy. It was a lot easier with the sectors, people knew where their place was. Now with a jumbled mess, you're bound to have arguments like these. To be honest, i'm amazed we didn't get it sooner. Its probably appropriate to thank both randy and owen (and others on either side) who raised this issue to people's attention, and make them take a moment to think that really it isn't as simple as it all seems. Its easy to make a team, but team members don't always have the same goal. Maybe we should take a leaf about of TBE's book and make a PKing team to deal with PK run-ins and wars? That way, we can save full-out wars for the full clan, and have regular PK run-ins for those who enjoy it? It makes sense to me, but I'm open to criticism. Its either something like this, or person A has to back down. This issue needs thought and now's the time to think about it. -------------------- ~Aetas: carpe diem quam minimum credula postero~ "Seize the day and place no trust in tomorrow"  | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 12:05 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Rage|Mike Group: Clan Friend Posts: 1948 Member No.: 1238 Joined: July 29, 2008 Total Events Attended: 132 | Here's what I think about this subject: I personally believe that, clan members have rights, and the clan has rights Rights of the clan members: Participate in the community, make decisions regarding the clan, discuss important stuff etc.. Rights of the clan: Attending every war/pkri to represent your clan, and participating in every skill war/event I do agree with Randy on this, I mean come on guys, even if you don't like run ins/wars just attend them as you represent your clan and your clan's strength, attend them to BOOST our community, attend them to BOOST our reputation, and most of all, attend them to HELP your clan mates. Same goes for skill wars and normal events btw^ Warring is an important factor in any clan's community, just like skilling and community events are, why neglect this? We've won every skill war we participated in with the help of the clan's skillers AND PKers, why not the same for an ordinary war/pkri Remember, this fight was safe, so the only thing you would have lost is supplies. I believe people should dedicate more time to the clan (For everything clan related, not just warring) When you join a clan, you represent that clan, if you refuse to attend any type of event, then you are representing your clan negatively. Please guys, please, instead of doing whatever you do in RS, just dedicate more time to events and wars when they happen, they really don't take a lot of time, just about 1 hour each. Of course, you can miss an event if you attended one already on that day, but please, don't miss on an any important event (Public events, wars, etc) Remember guys, our name is Wilderness Guardians, we ARE supposed to dedicate time to warring, since our name IS warring related. Oh and guys, just know that WG doesn't have a lot of wars, just look at TBE/TDM/Gladz/<insert decent community clan here>, they have a lot more wars than us, and none of them is warring based. Edit: At the pkri, I was really bored but I stayed there, I wanted to play WoW with a mate of mine but I still stayed, everyone should try doing that in our events, make your clan your  1 priority. --------------------  MSN: [email protected] IRC: Rage|Mike at SwiftIRC and SeersIRC Drop me a comment, click to view my RSC profile! Proud to be ex-Wilderness Guardian.  | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 12:58 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Sithofwookie Group: Ex-Member Posts: 2842 Member No.: 815 Joined: June 11, 2008 Total Events Attended: 48 | I play rs for fun, I don't find pvp fun, thus I do not go to them. -------------------- | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 01:08 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: [Randy] Group: Raid Leader Posts: 5065 Member No.: 16 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 499 |
What's more fun than pvp? Cutting trees..? If there's a way to make pvp more fun for you, than say so  -------------------- | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 01:22 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Sithofwookie Group: Ex-Member Posts: 2842 Member No.: 815 Joined: June 11, 2008 Total Events Attended: 48 |
I find fishing and skills like that ALOT more fun then pvp. There is really not anything you can do to make it fun for me. Idk why it just doesn't appeal to me  -------------------- | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 02:43 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Plano|Adam Group: Emeritus Posts: 1449 Member No.: 228 Joined: February 13, 2008 Total Events Attended: 107 | This is pretty simple, from what I'm hearing you want EVERYONE in the clan to be at all wars at all times... ONE WORD! IMPOSSIBLE!!! What i say is make a WAR UNIT!!! this way, you know everyone that is willing to war whenerv they log on, no brow-beating or abusing the clan members to come to wars. AND TBH, i believe the only reason we were so good at warring in 2005-2006 was because PKing was profitable, people wanted to be in a badass clan that never left empty-handed from a war. After the update the attitude changed from"HELL YEAH!" to "HELL NO!". You CANNOT expect everyone to be there at all times, its completely rash, and retarded at that. NEW PVP IS COMING SOON!! i say make a war unit now, and when people wanna war again when its actually worth there time, i say drop the unit and then make the clan come, you will have around 100% more people show up, and willing to do there best. --------------------  "If at first you don’t succeed, call it version 1.0" | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 03:07 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: pminogue Group: Ex-Member Posts: 277 Member No.: 108 Joined: January 5, 2008 Total Events Attended: 50 | I whole-heartedly agree with randy here on this one. I was not able to attend for I was at work. sincerely, half of this clans problems is INACTIVITY. if you feel like being lazy and not participating, then leave. As a previous clan leader, I can tell you there is nothing more that pisses leaders off than people being online and refusing to come to an event. even if you just went to the pkri and came back once, it would have made a big difference. --------------------  | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 03:20 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Pazenon Group: Emeritus Posts: 1477 Member No.: 33 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 79 | I have to say that I do agree with Randy on this. I wasn't there, but by the looks of it, we could've done a much decent job if we had a better turnout, which was possible. But as Mike said, you can't force people who dislike warring to leave whatever they're doing and attend the war/pkri. But boy, at least show a bit of commitment to your clan and go fight for it. Who knows, the outcome might have been different if it was for the 5 people who decided to leave what they're doing and attend this pkri.
Well said. -------------------- | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 04:27 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 |
But Randy I didn't join a war clan. I joined a skilling clan. I had 99 cooking and high enough fishing and total lvl with only 90 combat. I wasn't expecting to be warring. I went to wars as a skiller just to try it and now your saying to force me is a good thing. I'm not a war person. I go along when I can and I figure someday I may improve, but I am not into endless training my character into something I don't enjoy. I want to fish and farm and wc way more. I am of course willing to war with my friends but I really don't feel I make a big impact at wars. It is silly to want to warn me or force me to war. I've trained more combat because of the clan then I ever did before. Wee Gee is family to me. I would hope you can see accepting my personality as it is will be better than trying to force me to be someone I'm not. Let's put a rule that all of the clan has to have 99 farming?? See how silly that sounds to you. Your efforts do make WG a better clan. I see how much alot of WG loves warring and it needs strong leaders. Just be careful about wanting people like myself to fit the warring clan. I don't think I can change that much or so quickly to be what you would want. --------------------  Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~  | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 06:00 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Robertw56 Group: Guest Posts: 1908 Member No.: 15 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 118 | Ok some of you guys seem to forget we are a warring clan before we are a community clan, or even a skilling clan for that matter, we don't have the sectors anymore. If you join this clan, you're expected to come to every single war, if you prefer cutting a tree rather than coming to a war/pkri, then get the fuck out right now. --------------------    | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 06:10 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Geofff Group: Clan Friend Posts: 1238 Member No.: 608 Joined: May 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 96 |
+1 --------------------  | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 07:02 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Matt|Multi Group: Emeritus Posts: 668 Member No.: 49 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 12 |
I'm here for community and skilling. I do not enjoy the new style of PVP. Chasing people around a wall for hours is not fun. Running away from a mass of people while clicking like crazy is not fun. Returning is not fun. Not even getting a kill is fun. You will not force me to attend wars. Since apparently this is a warring clan I have come back to, I'll be handing in my resignation shortly. -------------------- Born at sea, baptized in blood your fame will never die. Your Division is one of the best if not the best division in the history of American arms -Gen George S Patton on the 45th Infantry Division  | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 07:04 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Geofff Group: Clan Friend Posts: 1238 Member No.: 608 Joined: May 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 96 |
Have patience and wait for the new PvP; it might change your mind. -------------------- | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 07:05 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Matt|Multi Group: Emeritus Posts: 668 Member No.: 49 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 12 |
and if I still don't enjoy it? -------------------- Born at sea, baptized in blood your fame will never die. Your Division is one of the best if not the best division in the history of American arms -Gen George S Patton on the 45th Infantry Division | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 08:39 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 |
I have no idea what to even say about this... This is one of the most idiotic pieces of writing I've ever seen. "You do what we want you to do, or you have to leave." I thought there was some democracy in this clan...apparently I was wrong. From what I remember, this clan was almost always a community clan. When I used to be really active, we had fixed raids and stuff (which was pretty much our PvP) and then rarely did we have a war. In my original stint with WG, we had like 3-4 full-out wars? One with TU, I think one with RR and maybe one or two more. More often than not we had Trawler events, Gnomeball and even Boss Slaying. Hell, I don't even remember having to many CWars events. We had more B-day parties back then than we had wars. I remember this. This clan has never really been about warring except for the time frame people talk about where we were the best in P2P, a time where I wasn't active. I agree that if people do actually attend, they should stay till the end. It'd be better if people did drop what they were doing to go, but I figure if it's not a PKRI that is planned in advance, they've got reason to not go. And Rob, what you're basically doing is blackmail. "War, or get the fuck out." Not really the best trait in a leader. --------------------   | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 10:20 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Owennnn Group: Emeritus Posts: 1447 Member No.: 37 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 55 |
Wow, well if that's the case, I'm out. -------------------- | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 10:30 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Yingy Group: Clan Friend Posts: 2205 Member No.: 27 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 21 |
Agreed. Runescape is ment to be fun, i will not make it a chore by attending EVERY war like you say Rob. If you dont like it then kick me, im a skiller. Deal with it -------------------- Friend's Forver The Long Road Ahead - 91/99 Prayer   | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 11:16 am | |||||||
| IRC Nickname: Tnuac Group: Emeritus Posts: 1806 Member No.: 51 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 58 |
I can't believe I just heard that. Especially from a council, who's supposed to reflect the views of the people. Someone in leadership ought to actually pay attention to the BIG PICTURE and actually listen to what's going on here, instead of playing god. This issue needs a soluton, or we're going to see some leaving shortly. -------------------- ~Aetas: carpe diem quam minimum credula postero~ "Seize the day and place no trust in tomorrow" | ||||||
Posted: September 29, 2008 11:18 am | |||||||
 IRC Nickname: Maths Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1855 Member No.: 54 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 286 | I think its time for me to post here. Now you have to look at our situation first. We have about 25-35 select member who want to war frequently. However, only about 15 are available in 1 particular timezone. This supplies us with bad turnouts. Like I know, I feel sorry for rachel + wind, who joined the clan under the term 'skiller', but are now forced to war. A lot of the leadership is very war orientated atm. Rob, dale, mugger, glenn, bto, brandon and myself are all very into wars. We also seem to be a majority amongst leadership. I really don't know how this whole skiller/fighter problem can be solved. I'm thinking of a warring list, but this may potentially act like sectors. In all honesty I don't know why we had a pkri just 9~ish hrs after a full out war. The problem is, since we have a lot of raid leaders/warlords, we all have power to accept these wars. A lot of the time we just accept it without considering how much our clan has already fought in the past couple of days. We accept these wars for those 25-35 members, but the skillers aren't prepared to help out all the time. Yes, I thank them for helping out in select wars, and it 'beefs' up our clan a bit in terms of warring activity. However, I know these skilling orientated people do not want to war all the time. So it comes down to this.
In all honesty I personally do like the amount of warring atm. However, this is because wars entertain me. I do realise though, that we can't keep doing 3-4 wars/pkri's on the weekend, because our turnout is just terrible to the less important ones. I don't know whether a lot of fighters will leave if we can't provide though... On a less important note, i love firefox  --------------------  "Journeys are what brings us happiness, Not the destination." ~ Two time ex-raid leader of wg ~  | ||||||
Kidding me?, **** THAT