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These forums were used by WG from 2008 to 2011, and now exist for historical and achival purposes only. For the clan's current forums, CLICK HERE. |
"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship |
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Posted: October 14, 2008 07:02 pm  | |||||
     IRC Nickname: Rick Hamm Group: Ex-Member Posts: 573 Member No.: 1214 Joined: July 14, 2008 Total Events Attended: 6    | Karl, please, if you will, explain to me how you know Bam was kidding when you weren't there and saw the context in which it was stated? This again is another person trying to sweep wrongdoings under the carpet. I stated before that this wasn't about Bam but about the ideals that he and others are taking with them when it pertains to skilling events. Type, that's the thing....you DON"T respect our decision to not war. We get ridiculed and the IRC is nothing more than a spam board if there's a war/pkri...however, you don't see skill leaders spamming the IRC for THEIR event. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 07:04 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 | Like Rick, I'd like to know how "He's just kidding after all," came about. --------------------   | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 07:06 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Rick Hamm Group: Ex-Member Posts: 573 Member No.: 1214 Joined: July 14, 2008 Total Events Attended: 6 | Colonel, there isn't a single person that can answer that question. I'm sure Bam himself will catch wind of this thread and state that he was, in fact, kidding but look at the IRC log and tell me if there's something I'm missing that's making it look like he is. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 07:12 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Rage|Mike Group: Clan Friend Posts: 1948 Member No.: 1238 Joined: July 29, 2008 Total Events Attended: 132 |
Removed most of the quotes because this is becoming quite huge Anyways, strength is NOT a warring only ability, but most people involved in fansite clanning consider warring success as the ultimate clan success. I do disagree with a lot of people on that, but I believe that warring needs the most attention only because it's the top major recruitment and reputation source. Community IS the real strength, and community includes warring and skilling. If there was a top skilling clans list on a famous clanning fansite (Such as RSC, for example) and a lot of people are interested, then sure, we should have more attention on skilling because it gives us good recruitment and reputation. Of course, we could just stick to ourselves and not care about our reputation, but this will cause our memberlist to slowly getting less, less and less over the time, with gaining little to none members, which could be disastrous to the clan in the long run. But that doesn't mean all our focus should be on warring, Skilling IS good for the clan as well (Being a community clan that involves a mixture of both). I DO encourage people to attend these events, but we know it's impossible to get lots of attendance because some people may decide not to come. The difference is, Warring NEEDS the most amount of members, Skilling doesn't need a vast majority. Thats why people get ticked, because they see a community clan who has less members than us outpull us and sometimes outlevel us, getting them a win over us. Skilling is a win-win situation, thats the difference here. --------------------  MSN: [email protected] IRC: Rage|Mike at SwiftIRC and SeersIRC Drop me a comment, click to view my RSC profile! Proud to be ex-Wilderness Guardian.  | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 07:16 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Owennnn Group: Emeritus Posts: 1447 Member No.: 37 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 55 |
On a lighter note, NICE FAIL APOSTROPHE KARL. This is an apostrophe ' This is not `  On topic: I've about given up trying to convey the bias shown towards the fighting "sector" compared to the skillers in this clan. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 07:24 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Rick Hamm Group: Ex-Member Posts: 573 Member No.: 1214 Joined: July 14, 2008 Total Events Attended: 6 | Raging, I agree with some of your points, however, didn't WG almost die once before because all we cared about was how powerful we were? Why do we have to be this powerhouse? That wasn't the intention when this clan was first built. Why all of a sudden has it become so? I guess the only person that can really answer that is Gene himself. My personal opinion on power as it pertains to clans, is that the rankings are ridiculous. PvP, pking, call it what you will, is nothing more than luck. There is NO skill involved. It's a crapshoot. You can try to deny that fact but it'll always be there. It's a roll of the dice whether you hit, how much you hit for, and if you succeed in killing another player. If you want an example, look at Castle Wars or at...um, what's that other thing I'm thinking about...that thing by Al Kharid, Duel Arena, yeah. Why do we always have to follow what other clans do or say? I blame DI for all the problems that clans have because they've set the mark on power. Now all clans want to do is be able to be as powerful as them but I'm telling you now, it'll come at a price. Are we really willing to pay that price? -------------------- | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 07:37 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Rage|Mike Group: Clan Friend Posts: 1948 Member No.: 1238 Joined: July 29, 2008 Total Events Attended: 132 |
Involving ourselves in PvP is not really a bad thing, rankings shouldn't be the highest priority but they do help in the long run. Wars do require skills to do it right though. We aren't involved in warring to follow what other clans do, we are involved in warring because a lot of people in WG love to war other clans (That doesn't mean that a lot of people don't love skilling though, because a lot do). As for the old WG part, I can't comment on that because I wasn't here at the time.  Edit: I'll be back in 30mins-1hour. -------------------- MSN: [email protected] IRC: Rage|Mike at SwiftIRC and SeersIRC Drop me a comment, click to view my RSC profile! Proud to be ex-Wilderness Guardian. | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 08:15 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Karlfischer Group: Ex-Member Posts: 664 Member No.: 124 Joined: January 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 55 |
Point taken, I am not sure if he was kidding or not, it is hard to tell on IRC, especially when I did not see the context. Nevertheless, I think that distracts from point I was trying to make: the problem is not what Bam said, but the fact that if a skiller says he or she does not want to war, that decision is not respected. Lol, good eye Owen, I created my own keyboard layout to deal with both English and Spanish, and in the process I forgot to change the apostrophe  ¿¿¿¿--------------------   | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 08:42 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Banned Posts: 2447 Member No.: 114 Joined: January 8, 2008 Total Events Attended: 149 |
One thing I'd like to point out here. Type, during a fighting event, you have NOTICED the channel. Which for those on mIRC, beeps and flashes at them. I don't notice the channel, I spam 2-3 lines. You are also not the one leading the event, so it is not necessary for you to be spamming and especially not necessary for you to be NOTICING the channel rather than spamming 2-3 lines. That is my big rant at you. You don't need to notice the channel. It is highly obnoxious. Zlat has done it too, so this is also for him to pay attention. NOTICING THE WHOLE CHANNEL IS NOT NEEDED. Though quite frequently when it's time to mass for a war or PKRI or something like that, people spam 3-6 lines, completely blotting out all other text. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 08:59 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Rick Hamm Group: Ex-Member Posts: 573 Member No.: 1214 Joined: July 14, 2008 Total Events Attended: 6 | Thank you Karl and that's also the point that I'm trying to make. It's not Bam I'm upset with, it's the whole underlying issue. What Bam said really is irrelevant now that we have the points of discussion, I just needed something concrete to start such a topic. I love Bam. <3 -------------------- | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 08:59 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Mickey Group: Emeritus Posts: 5305 Member No.: 48 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 282 | I can really see both sides of this here. But still, isn't it a bit hypocritical to demand people attend non-mandatory wars, when you have the attitude of "I'm not missing anything, it's only skilling...", I'm sure you'd have a different attitude if was was "I'm not missing anything, it's just a war...". --------------------    | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 09:35 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Type Group: Guest Posts: 223 Member No.: 686 Joined: May 24, 2008 Total Events Attended: 16 | Rick: I do respect the fact you don't like wars, I dissrespect people who lie about not coming for other reasons. Just say "I don't enjoy warring and Im not in this clan to war" and nothing more is to be said. Wind: I notice the channel twice every 10mins normally and thats to remind people that the event it soon. I am very pationate about my wars so I will probs go the extra mile to get people to come. Also I feel these stupid posts about clan division and skilling vs warring have really got to stop. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 09:40 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 7306 Member No.: 47 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 343 |
Bullshit, we're engaging in what if, what if skilling is eliminated from runescape? there I can do it too so let's stop with what if something happens, let's see what happens when it happens. Also, I don't see topics where warrers are complaining about skillers, yet there are already two topics with skillers bitching about how neglected and abused they are. At Wind, mass PMing is just as annoying as notice since my mIRC doesn't flash or beep on notice since I have sound off but it starts flashing when I get a PM. So you event leaders spamming every 5 seconds about an event is just as irritating. P.S. I've responded to multiple posts here. Also I would appreciate if you spelled my name properly if you're going to use me as your scapegoat. I had respect for a great many of you until it was felt necessary to drag my name through the proverbial mud. -------------------- July 5, 2007 - June 27, 2011 | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 09:49 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Kiwi011 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3052 Member No.: 40 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 21 | I think most of you are failing to realize even if Bam was joking. Half of WG's attitude is exactly that. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 10:05 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Sithofwookie Group: Ex-Member Posts: 2842 Member No.: 815 Joined: June 11, 2008 Total Events Attended: 48 | As for the wars are the main way of recruiting I beg to differ. Two clans before this one I was fishing at the fishing guild and I saw a few members of The Revolution just sitting there having fun and talking and it really made me want to join so bad that I trained for 10 cmb lvls just to join. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 10:56 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Rick Hamm Group: Ex-Member Posts: 573 Member No.: 1214 Joined: July 14, 2008 Total Events Attended: 6 |
There's nothing to complain about QUIK. We go to your wars and your war trainings even though we don't like it...yet when we DO go, we're told that we suck or to leave because we're not good enough. You can't have it both fucking ways and that's the bottom line. Something has to give here and it sure as hell isn't going to be me. You have one mindset...WARS, KILLING, DEATH. Well we're different so deal with THAT and give us the same courtesy you expect us to give, even though that's all we do is give in to you guys. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 11:17 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: [JC] Group: Emeritus Posts: 3320 Member No.: 23 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 147 | I think this all stems from the differing reasons why people attend an event, and there is always going to be a difference between why you will attend a Skill or a War or a Community event. Essentially, the way I see it: War Events People attend these to try and WIN. Yes it is fun to come to them and fight alongside a group of friends (if you doubt it, go join a random team at w141 and see how much it sucks) but effectively the most important part of the event is whether the final result is a win or a loss. War Events are mainly based upon what the final result is. Skill Events Skill events focus much more upon helping others to train up with a bit of company, and farming runs are a good example of this. Often people find skills booring, for myself I can't stand RC, yet when I join up with a group of friends I enjoy myself allot, and often will be at a ZMI RC event untill the very last person leaves because company makes it fun. The issue of course is that a skilling event doesnt obviously rely so much upon whether you get 1 or 20 people attending, yet in reality the most important factor for a skill event is whether your friends are there. Community events Essentially community events are the same as Skill events, they are where you go along and do the same event with a group of your clan mates, though they normally have a basis upon a fun mini game or event such as flower power. Once again Community events are based mainly upon whether your friends are there. The difficulty here is where the difference is here. I guess the main difference is that those who prefer skill events often go along to War events purely to benefit WG by providing another member, possibly the one member that will win that war for you, however people who prefer wars generally do not see the benefits of going to a skill event. People must not forget that EVERY event you go to, whether it be a skill, community or war event, will benefit the clan in some way that may not be that obvious at first. As above Wars and so on are hugely important, and I will not deny that, but equally so are the skill and communty events which serve to improve the community within WG. People need to think not "Why should I go to this War/Skill event?" but more "Will my attendance at this event benefit WG?" and I gaurantee 100% of the time you being at an event will have a positive impact. --------------------  Old awards wat Most Mature & Most Honourable Most Dedicated|IRC Freak|Best Emeritus Placeholder lolz | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 11:23 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 |
I took out my section of your post for the same reason - length. First, this is our clan. Why must we conform to the wishes of the fansite community? Why do we have follow their ways of determining clan strength? Is that what we are as a clan? You should know that WG has NEVER been known for it's warring. It's two main claims to fame are it's basic principle of Anti-RPKing and it's superior community. I know I never joined WG for it's warring capability. I'm sure a good number of us did say "Hey, WG is a beast warring clan, let's join them!" What probably occurred is a friend of yours joined and told you about how fun it is and you joined. Another scenario is that you heard about it's basis of Anti-RPKing or that is was just an awesome place to be. Warring isn't our strength, so exactly why should we be using that to recruit people? From what I understand about recruitment, you try to make what strengths you DO have look totally awesome, not attempt to take your weaknesses and make them look like strengths. So not going out of our way to war constantly will deplete our member list? There have been so many top clans that have gone through member loss while they were at the top and extremely active on the warring scene. WG used to have 100's of members but had wars that could be months apart. Now I know circumstances are difference because of CWA, making wars readily available, but the principle is the same. Why doesn't skilling need a vast majority? Sure, you can cut trees by yourself, but where's the fun? When there are more people skilling together, there is more fun. So a vast majority would make the event more entertaining. The difference is it's a different kind of entertainment. EDIT: Well said Evil. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 11:32 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Rick Hamm Group: Ex-Member Posts: 573 Member No.: 1214 Joined: July 14, 2008 Total Events Attended: 6 | Well said JC and Colonel and I thank you for acknowledging that there in fact IS a problem here...a division of sorts. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: October 14, 2008 11:59 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Sativas Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 2255 Member No.: 1305 Joined: August 29, 2008 Total Events Attended: 155 |
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Posted: October 15, 2008 01:46 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 |
A. Well I can say that world 141 random teams is actually fun to go alone to. I went there trying to get a lil better at warring and just to have fun. I had more fun in some ways cause I didn't have anyone posting how crappy the war was or saying I need to train more. It was just fun with no pressure. Warring with my clan mates is a real drag anymore. I love the people and the massing part is fun. The walk to the portal is fun. The hearing the voices as we start is fun. Then the war starts and the complaining begins and the fun ends. I could never go to another war and be very happy about it after my last few experiences with this family of mine. B. I always love skilling because it is an opportunity to meet new people and develope friendships. If I were to go to a skilling event were none of my usual friends were at I'd still love the time to get to know them. Unlike the wars, when your skilling you actually can chat with people and get to know them. I've met with different WG in the game to skill with no worries of getting attendance. Often inviting people I don't know in the lobby to join me at whatever I'm doing. I know that is how I really got to know Rick. Skilling = Making Friends C. How many clan mates have just run around with me to do silly things like go to each others houses or show them the wiggly bed. Community events are fun, but the real part of communtiy is in just random fun stuff you do cause you want to get to know each other or enjoy spending time together. I consider all the people that have come to my side as I train combat to be great at community. Like Flippy alching by me at the fire giants or those that knew I stayed at daggnoths for a week and would stop by and say hi. Gus for coming and training with me at the Ghouls. Explain to me why I should ever have to go to a war, when I am not really wanted there and I dislike the rejection of it now. I really don't want to war. Is that such an aweful thing for me to say. If I want to war I'll ask Andrew or Type or some of the other friends I have in WG to go do a fun war kind of thing. The pressure of having to be in the top 20 clans is a bit to much for me. I am willing to help WG in many ways, but warring is just one way I'd like to pass on. My speaking out that I don't want to war is just the same as Bam not wanting to skilll, but how many will say I am all wrong for the way I think about this. Maybe in time I will want to try warring again, but I will be 0% for now. --------------------  Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~  | ||||
Posted: October 15, 2008 02:04 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Hyperion Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1636 Member No.: 978 Joined: June 23, 2008 Total Events Attended: 141 |
Agreed, dividing posts about dividing issues, that just divide us even more have got to stop. Don't use one person as an example. I say we have a time where we all debate together at one time what we are going to do about it. This began as an attack on one person, not really a debate about issues. --------------------    Dragon boots:29 Whips:2 | ||||
Posted: October 15, 2008 02:12 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129 | Fucking hell. If people have that attitude, deal with it. Enough drama already. If people don't want to skill, use positive encouragement. Help them see what's good about it. If people don't want to raid, tough titties. They may change their mind later on. Well done WG for once more creating a big shitload of drama. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: October 15, 2008 06:00 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: megajayson Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 9246 Member No.: 423 Joined: April 4, 2008 Total Events Attended: 216 |
rightly put and ill copy what i just said in irc <jadi_simondz> i love skilling, hate warring <jadi_simondz> but fact is, wars is what keeps this clan as good as it is, and is what recruits people <jadi_simondz> i dont think anyone would join a clan because they think "hey look at that, they can get 20 people to go to zmi altar and they are all so good at rcing" i dont think there needs to be any more topics on this, if someone doesnt want to go to a skill events, SO FUCKING WHAT? until it is mandatory, there is nothing you can do about it. my god, amount of drama about this topic is a fucking waste of cookies --------------------  This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill Fifteen percent concentrated power of will Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain And a hundred percent reason to remember the name! 7th Highest Overall for Wars Attended. | ||||
Posted: October 15, 2008 04:22 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 7306 Member No.: 47 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 343 |
And Rick, I don't much care how well you do if you show up rather than insulting me but avoiding it. If you don't want to come at least say so (which would probably be anybody but you) instead of doing this I'll turn my chat off etc. Along with that, you keep assuming there is a problem and you expect one when in reality there is a lot less pressure for skillers to attend wars now and now because of that doesn't give skillers the right to demand what they claim we do. It's like a child asked to cut a loaf of bread in half, and since the child in the past was never given his/her half, he/she now feels obligated to try to make up for the past by cutting the bread in say 75% vs 25%. The past is past, look forward to the future rather than dwelling on what once was and accept that nobody has to attend an even they don't want to. P.S. Quoted Gene's post since I think it brings up an excellent point. -------------------- July 5, 2007 - June 27, 2011 | ||||
Who's really dividing the clan?
