Thats the thing, Joe, most of those interested in clanning nowadays have left the clan world. Only few remain so it's very hard for a non-top PKRI clan to gain over 100 members, so we lose our member advantage right there (as we don't get very impressive pulls in to PvP things(, so the only way we can make up to it is become like any other clan, decent requirements and to rely on levels and organization.
 
--------------------


MSN: [email protected]
IRC: Rage|Mike at SwiftIRC and SeersIRC
Drop me a comment, click to view my RSC profile!

Proud to be ex-Wilderness Guardian.

Thats the thing, Joe, most of those interested in clanning nowadays have left the clan world. Only few remain so it's very hard for a non-top PKRI clan to gain over 100 members, so we lose our member advantage right there (as we don't get very impressive pulls in to PvP things(, so the only way we can make up to it is become like any other clan, decent requirements and to rely on levels and organization.

Mike, reread what you wrote. Your saying you want WG to be like every other clan. Then what sets us apart as the better place to be? All the other clans have a community, not saying how good. Are we going to rely on our pretty awesome website? Your admitting here that you want us to be like everyone else. That is not what the clan has been founded on.

Who says we are a PKRI clan? I could claim we are a wood cutting clan then cause we have wood cutting events? Just because we have those type events does not define who WG is as a clan. We are a community clan that does have a strong war base with skilling also.
 
--------------------

Thank you Garrett and Dallar.
“The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems
is the day you have stopped leading them.
They have either lost confidence that you can help them
or concluded that you do not care.
Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~

Thats the thing, Joe, most of those interested in clanning nowadays have left the clan world. Only few remain so it's very hard for a non-top PKRI clan to gain over 100 members, so we lose our member advantage right there (as we don't get very impressive pulls in to PvP things(, so the only way we can make up to it is become like any other clan, decent requirements and to rely on levels and organization.

Mike, reread what you wrote. Your saying you want WG to be like every other clan. Then what sets us apart as the better place to be? All the other clans have a community, not saying how good. Are we going to rely on our pretty awesome website?

I didn't mean we're a PKRI clan, I meant our current ranking in PKRI's isn't in the top when I said that (Nor am I aiming for that, 10 hour PKRI's aren't my thing)

Re-read what I said, I said in terms of PvP strength (Proper, not high, levels and good organization). Never said we just follow the system of other clans.

Thanks for repeating what I said in 3 pages right now lol.
 
--------------------


MSN: [email protected]
IRC: Rage|Mike at SwiftIRC and SeersIRC
Drop me a comment, click to view my RSC profile!

Proud to be ex-Wilderness Guardian.

I am not going to AFK train. It is almost equivalent to using an autoer or bot, except you exploit the NPC's aggressiveness and then walk away rather than having something click for you. I see them on almost the same level; with one being just a little less.

What is properly? AFKing? Not doing Slayer?
Also with that statement you are still not explaining how this will really help us. We still would get 115s, 110s, 120s, 105s, and people between 105-110. You are basically encouraging them to work their asses off to train, and from reading a very touching blog and thinking about it, when you work your ass off to train, you don't learn anything. You are kinda becoming what is called a "ch00b" (combat noob). You are working and not noticing your surroundings or how to improve.

I don't agree with what you are proposing on making trials go through. Raising the requirements is going to lower the amount of recruits and not increase the combat area. If I personally was to see that I was basically *forced* to train 5 combat levels (and I joined at 100 F2P combat) then I would find me another clan.

You need to remember what it would be like to be a trial guardian or an intro instead of trying to be an *elitist* who wants WG to be like every other clan and follow the increasing combat requirements. Screw every other clan. We can still be 100+ requirements and be as good or better than clans that are 110+ combat. We beat RE in a full out, 110+ combat requirement I believe.

Let me ask you this question, and don't half ass the answer. Why do you want the increase and what is your predicted effects?
 
--------------------

yeah they keep on distracting us. They should know better than to argue this non-ending fight.

Still love you Randy.
 
--------------------

Thank you Garrett and Dallar.
“The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems
is the day you have stopped leading them.
They have either lost confidence that you can help them
or concluded that you do not care.
Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~

yeah they keep on distracting us. They should know better than to argue this non-ending fight.

Still love you Randy.

We'll just keep distracting you, so just stay off the topic so we don't distract you and you can train!

Oh I'll give you one.
It's no secret that a lot of WG members are like this right now:
Join up as low levels -> Average goes down -> Train up -> Average goes high -> Another low level joins -> Average goes down once again -> A high level or low level leaves -> Average same as the start.

Other clans, and yes, COMMUNITY clans, I'll pull up statistics:

[G] The Gladiatorz ( http://www.the-gladiatorz.com ) | Members: 71 | Avg: Cmb: (F2P: 120.76)
[The] THE Clan ( http://www.theclan.ws ) | Members: 103 | Avg: Cmb: (F2P: 120.68)
[TBE] The British Elites ( http://forums.britishelites.com/ ) | Members: 113 | Avg: Cmb: (F2P: 117.43)

Look at their averages, TBE used to be higher but they lost members (Used to be 120-118), but Gladz and THE remained the same. ALL OF THESE ARE COMMUNITY CLANS FOCUSED ON COMMUNITY FIRST, PVP AND SKILLING SECOND

Now that I pulled up statistics:

The clan world changes.

We have to adapt our community so that it stands a chance, we currently don't. How many times have we stood our ground in a PvP trip? VERY rare, it's because when you have lots of low levels it's easy to get KO'ed (Sure high levels get KO'ed too but its a 300% more chance for low levels), which results in us getting CLEARED in 10 minutes if not less if we fight a clan SLIGHTLY stronger than us.

What would the requirement do:

It'll give us a MUCH higher combat average (Yes 2-1 levels is considered huge, it won't have instant effects but it will have effects in the future).

105 from 102 is possibly 3 combat averages. People who train to give us a better average would be relieved because they see that the combat average still improves.

Why didn't I ask CURRENT low levels to train? It's up to them and I know how much it pisses them off, as it's not our right to enforce it upon them when it wasn't in the rules when they joined.
But if a 100-104 joins us THEY'LL WELL DAMN KNOW that our requirements REQUIRES MANDATORY TRAINING TO 105, not following it is totally AGAINST dedication.


Now I have a question for you.
Why are you so against the idea, and give me a proper reason not one like 'Pmg it's gona kill the community and skilling@@@' (3 combat levels more than now, it surely isn't going to be killing the community?)
 
--------------------


MSN: [email protected]
IRC: Rage|Mike at SwiftIRC and SeersIRC
Drop me a comment, click to view my RSC profile!

Proud to be ex-Wilderness Guardian.

I found Armored Zombies.

Seriously though, we've been fence-sitting this issue for years. We keep our requirements low to help recruitment, but at the same time we're subsequently unhappy with the people we do recruit because they have lower levels. To correct this we talk about raising the requirements, but never to a degree high enough to actually make a significant difference.

I also noticed that a few people have argued in favor of a defense level requirement, which would make sense since the whole argument behind this is that people aren't able to tank efficiently. Yet this is ignored? I guess a higher combat average looks better.

That's also worth quoting. Even if we were all 10 levels higher than we are now, it's not the levels that matter so much as the INTEREST (this is why an entry requirement of 105 isn't going to make us 120 any faster than 102).

Frankly, there are people here (such as myself) who don't really care about RS PvP because it's boring as hell. I'm constantly astonished at the otherwise perfectly balanced individuals who enjoy wars and multi-hour PKRIs.

You can't have it both ways; either the community faction has to scram, or there has to be a system that accommodates everyone (or have some SW events, that'd be a fun way to do tanking practice). I've tried to figure out ways to keep the best of both worlds before, but my grand schemes are always shunned because they'd mean more work for the higher ups (seriously, I'll do the work for you! Just a cursory evanescent entity).

We won't accomplish anything just going around in circles like this because the council and up aren't interested in picking one side of the fence or the other, or putting in the work to knock the fence down. So anything we come up with is superfluous until they decide it's time to do something. But when they do, they arbitrarily do whatever they want, so in the end it's pointless for us to talk about it at all. But hell, all in favor of free speech! I'll keep posting at least.
 
--------------------

I found Armored Zombies.

Seriously though, we've been fence-sitting this issue for years. We keep our requirements low to help recruitment, but at the same time we're subsequently unhappy with the people we do recruit because they have lower levels. To correct this we talk about raising the requirements, but never to a degree high enough to actually make a significant difference.

I also noticed that a few people have argued in favor of a defense level requirement, which would make sense since the whole argument behind this is that people aren't able to tank efficiently. Yet this is ignored? I guess a higher combat average looks better.

That's also worth quoting. Even if we were all 10 levels higher than we are now, it's not the levels that matter so much as the INTEREST. Frankly, there are people here (such as myself) who don't really care about RS PvP because it's boring as hell. I'm constantly astonished at the otherwise perfectly balanced individuals who enjoy multi-hour PKRIs.

You can't have it both ways; either get rid of us, or come up with a system that accommodates us (or have some SW events, that'd be a fun way to do tanking practice). I've tried to figure out ways to keep the best of both worlds before, but my grand schemes are shunned because they'd mean more work for the higher ups (seriously, I'll do the work for you! Just a cursory evanescent entity).

We won't accomplish anything just going around in circles like this; figure it out.

No one said a thing about skillers.

You don't have to attend because when you joined no rule said it's mandatory Raiding.

But this is for our combat average which helps in PvP PKRI'S (Which I've been told is mandatory because they're more important than RAW Wars).
Also helps in Raiding and Small mini wars.

It's not going to affect a single skiller and their stance about PvP.
 
--------------------


MSN: [email protected]
IRC: Rage|Mike at SwiftIRC and SeersIRC
Drop me a comment, click to view my RSC profile!

Proud to be ex-Wilderness Guardian.

Well PvP'ers and Skillers coming to each others event is always good (Most of both sides do that).

The Mandatory PKRI's/Official RAW Wars are good, shouldn't go further than that because I know that a lot of skillers don't like PvP.

Combat raise is going to help out the PvP'ers and won't be harming nor helping the skillers for the most part. If there is something that is going to harm them then please do tell

I'm all up for adding a total level requirements so that the skillers don't feel left out if people want it so we don't get PvP'ers only
 
--------------------


MSN: [email protected]
IRC: Rage|Mike at SwiftIRC and SeersIRC
Drop me a comment, click to view my RSC profile!

Proud to be ex-Wilderness Guardian.

Who cares about combat average though? It is all for show? It is a statistic and statistics can easily be wrong. You worry about what we look like to the clan community and how we look to them by what they see at first. If they don't see us as a "strong" clan because we have low requirements, then screw them. Let them war us and see how we do.

If you want to improve our tanking so we don't get KOed go get better recruits that know how to tank rather than ones that just have levels. Levels are nothing to experience.

Screw worrying about combat average. It doesn't show experience.

If I "well damn know" that I have to have mandatory training to join a clan, then I "well damn know" that I am not going to join the clan. Remember: You join a clan for pleasure and to have more fun, not to work your ass off to "look" better to the rest of the clan world because of a small little statistic.

First of all don't try to say that I have not been giving you proper reasons. I have been giving thorough posts, so take it to make it look like I have been trying to say "'Pmg it's gona kill the community and skilling@@@'".

Anyways, your proposed increase puts too much stress on a regular intro that would be at 100 combat when his application is accepted. There may be a small effect with the increase of 3 combat levels, but it discourages the amount of applicants that we would get, so overall it decreases the amount of members that we would get. Just because they are a higher level does not mean that they are any more mature or any more experienced than a lower level. So yes, no improvement.

You suggest for people to AFK train or to train on common monsters, but there are people that do not like to do that. I train through Slayer. I know other WG members that train through Slayer and wouldn't want to have to work their asses off and have no life with slayer to just be in a clan. I joined WG because it was a clan with everything; even though I like warring more than the rest, I still enjoy the benefits of being in a clan with everything. I joined at 100 combat, and if I saw that I had to gain 5 combat levels in a month along with the other requirements for graduation then I would have left and gone to another clan.

If you want to increase the requirements, make a required defense level. Don't increase the overall level expecting for our war performance to just dramatically increase because it won't. Not at all. Put more people in a war situation and encourage them to become better instead of forcing them to become better through training and working their asses off. As I said before, levels are nothing to experience.

So to put it in points for lazy readers:

I don't want to increase requirements by combat levels
If you want to increase requirements do it by defense levels
Making a trial have to gain 5 combat levels in a month is completely retarded and asinine to add to their struggle to attend events already
Combat average is complete bullshit
Make us look good on the battle field by our performance rather than our levels
Improve our warring skills and not our RuneScape skills

You still didn't completely answer my question. Why do you want the increase? So we can look better to the clan community?
 
--------------------

You'd be better at them if you gained some lvls
 
--------------------


"Journeys are what brings us happiness,
Not the destination."

~ Two time ex-raid leader of wg ~

^^^

Lefty and I can outtank most of the 120s in this clan.

And Maths, seriously, just give it a rest. You being a dick isn't going to make anyone train. It just makes you a dick. We will train at our own pace, and you'll live with it or GTFO. So just shut the fuck up already.
 
--------------------


Proud WG member from January 2006 - Fall 2009

Gary your showing your true side here. Thanks for having so much concern for the clan that you bash us for the lack of our war skills that "you" think we should have.

You have been so helpful to make people want to train with this attitude of the only good member is a level 120 that is a good war person. So your ultimate plan is to so judging towards others that they will be ashamed for not being to "your standards" and have to leave the clan.

Think whatever you want but the lower levels have a place here and your not intimidating us to train or to leave the clan.

You are flamebaiting.
 
--------------------

Thank you Garrett and Dallar.
“The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems
is the day you have stopped leading them.
They have either lost confidence that you can help them
or concluded that you do not care.
Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~

The thing is, you don't train fullstop.
 
--------------------


"Journeys are what brings us happiness,
Not the destination."

~ Two time ex-raid leader of wg ~

The thing is, you don't train fullstop.

Full stop?

<3

Read Chimp Plan!
 
--------------------

The "problem" is that there are people in the clan who would prefer to spend their time leveling something else even when they're perfectly active. Think of combat and skilling like PE and Mathematics. Some people like both, but most will opt for one of the two at the expense of the other one. So for this analogy, skillers would rather do math (skilling) than PE (combat). THAT'S THE UNDERLYING DISAGREEMENT THAT WE HAVE TO ALLOW FOR NUBS! Making the entry-level requirements higher isn't going to transform skillers into sudden PE fanatics.

I don't care what anyone else says, this is exactly why I want sectors back (albeit fixed).
 
--------------------

Could it be a level OR a minimum amount of experience in that skill? That'd make it more even for the guys with +90 in all combat skills (assuming it's strictly att/def/str/hit).
 
--------------------