The Wilderness Guardians

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You are currently viewing an archive of the Wilderness Guardians clan's IPB1 forums. These forums were used by WG from 2008 to 2011, and now exist for historical and achival purposes only. For the clan's current forums, CLICK HERE.	"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship
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IRC Nickname: Snowzak
Group: Emeritus
Posts: 1193
Member No.: 5
Joined: December 26, 2007
Total Events Attended: 67

We've also never tried raising them and keeping them there... mass recruiting the is the solution that's been used every time, it's not the other way around.

Mass recruiting is the reason people have used this clan for so many years as a stepping stone to get into other higher leveled clan. Easy to get in, acceptable training for top clans, but unable to maintain a high standard so off they go.

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London RL Meeting attendee - Paris RL meeting attendee
Joined WG in October 2005 - Original DG - Ex-Raid Leader
Proud Council Member from October 21st 2007 to May 19th 2008

IRC Nickname: DG_Keanu
Group: Council
Posts: 4782
Member No.: 2033
Joined: August 25, 2009
Total Events Attended: 173

http://92.48.69.8/~wgwilde/forum/index.php?showtopic=11819

Last time we raised for 2 months recruitment halved. I don't see the logic in keeping the reqs raised, because how could things possibly improve? We'd have less choice of members, we'd have harder opponents to fight... \_O.o_/

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[05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic
[05:42] <%kat> same

IRC Nickname: Chimpy
Group: Banned
Posts: 2521
Member No.: 1474
Joined: November 16, 2008
Total Events Attended: 133

QUOTE: WG_Keanu @ February 25, 2010 06:21 am)

http://92.48.69.8/~wgwilde/forum/index.php?showtopic=11819

Last time we raised for 2 months recruitment halved. I don't see the logic in keeping the reqs raised, because how could things possibly improve? We'd have less choice of members, we'd have harder opponents to fight... \_O.o_/

QUOTE: Myself on Page 2)

Last time we tried this, we had our by far biggest influx of intros in my time in WG, at one point 2-3 A DAY. But nobody worked hard to get these people in, so many didn't really join because they felt detached. On the side, our avg went up and we were winning more. However we weren't getting new members at a satisfactory pace, so you came in and made one of your "I told you I was right you were wrong" speeches and now here we are, no better off. Matter of fact, worse off. I really hope you don't think 100+ has been working out better for us, we've only gained a few members more because of it, half being inactive.

I'm sorry to say lordy, but this isn't 2006 or 2007 anymore. The times are changing, higher levels ARE needed to be better now, that's just the way it is. I would know, frankly you wouldn't. I'm not trying to be rude at all, I have a TON of respect for you, but you don't have a grasp at all of the current clan world. It's the strongest survive now, adapt or die.

As much as I'd like to have lower reqs, we just can't afford it at the moment, not with the current clan situation.

Yeah, 2 months. We didn't even try. We had our biggest influx of intros that I've ever seen then too. It definatly was not a failure. Lordy just refused to ride it out.

And how does raising reqs to 110+ put us on DF/Vr's level? Lol? I can rattle off 15 clans easily that we can still fight with those reqs that aren't top clans.

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IRC Nickname: DG_Keanu
Group: Council
Posts: 4782
Member No.: 2033
Joined: August 25, 2009
Total Events Attended: 173

QUOTE: Chimpy @ February 25, 2010 12:06 pm)

And how does raising reqs to 110+ put us on DF/Vr's level? Lol? I can rattle off 15 clans easily that we can still fight with those reqs that aren't top clans.

If we can easily fight 15 clans at the 110+ level why have we lost the past 15 fights with clans at the 100+ level?

QUOTE

Lordy just refused to ride it out.

Not really. We all refused to ride it out, hence 36 out of 52 votes to put the reqs back down. Can't blame that on Gene.

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[05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic
[05:42] <%kat> same

IRC Nickname: His Lordship
Group: Founder
Posts: 6029
Member No.: 1
Joined: December 26, 2007
Total Events Attended: 129

QUOTE: Snowzak @ February 25, 2010 01:54 am)

Struttin' since 05.

Struttin' since 03.

PS Chimpy - I'm still not going to change reqs, so write another essay and I'll reply with another 2 lines. It's still a resounding no. I might consider your other ideas.

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IRC Nickname: Chimpy
Group: Banned
Posts: 2521
Member No.: 1474
Joined: November 16, 2008
Total Events Attended: 133

QUOTE: His_Lordship @ February 25, 2010 10:12 am)

QUOTE: Snowzak February 25, 2010 01:54 am

Struttin' since 05.

Struttin' since 03.

PS Chimpy - I'm still not going to change reqs, so write another essay and I'll reply with another 2 lines. It's still a resounding no. I might consider your other ideas.

Sad that you could give a shit what your clan wants you just want what you want.

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IRC Nickname: Chimpy
Group: Banned
Posts: 2521
Member No.: 1474
Joined: November 16, 2008
Total Events Attended: 133

QUOTE: WG_Keanu @ February 25, 2010 07:15 am)

QUOTE: Chimpy February 25, 2010 12:06 pm

And how does raising reqs to 110+ put us on DF/Vr's level? Lol? I can rattle off 15 clans easily that we can still fight with those reqs that aren't top clans.

If we can easily fight 15 clans at the 110+ level why have we lost the past 15 fights with clans at the 100+ level?

wat. We fought like 1, MAYBE 2 clnas with 100+ reqs lately. Rest have been 105-110+, and it makes a big difference.

QUOTE

Lordy just refused to ride it out.

Not really. We all refused to ride it out, hence 36 out of 52 votes to put the reqs back down. Can't blame that on Gene.

Yeah, it was a group failure.

Lordy it's sad you could give a shit what everyone else in your clan wants you only care about what you want. Stuff like that nearly killed the clan before and will most likely do it again.

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IRC Nickname: Sgtswordfish
Group: Guest
Posts: 1737
Member No.: 1758
Joined: March 9, 2009
Total Events Attended: 64

his lordship is wg leader

if he chooses it thus he can kill the clan on the spot. don't test the powers that be.

your resolve is weakened by your inability to accept and trust. you say you're committed to wg yet you won't stand by your leader? you provide ideas to "fix" when your current task is of much greater importance.

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Goals 2011
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IRC Nickname: Chimpy
Group: Banned
Posts: 2521
Member No.: 1474
Joined: November 16, 2008
Total Events Attended: 133

QUOTE: sgtswordfish @ February 25, 2010 11:06 am)

his lordship is wg leader

if he chooses it thus he can kill the clan on the spot. don't test the powers that be.

your resolve is weakened by your inability to accept and trust. you say you're committed to wg yet you won't stand by your leader? you provide ideas to "fix" when your current task is of much greater importance.

I really wish I could ever make out what you're saying.

It's not that I don't trust lordy or aren't willing to be under him. I have, do, and always will respect him. Just because we have a disagreement doesn't mean whatever you wrote. I'm sorry I'm not a spineless underlying that follows whatever the leadership tells me to do. I'm allowed to disagree, and I am.

QUOTE

you provide ideas to "fix" when your current task is of much greater importance.

What is my current task supposed to be? >_>

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IRC Nickname: DG_Keanu
Group: Council
Posts: 4782
Member No.: 2033
Joined: August 25, 2009
Total Events Attended: 173

QUOTE: Chimpy @ February 25, 2010 05:04 pm)

QUOTE

you provide ideas to "fix" when your current task is of much greater importance.

What is my current task supposed to be? >_>

MASS RECRUIT

QUOTE: WG_Keanu February 25, 2010 07:15 am

QUOTE: Chimpy February 25, 2010 12:06 pm

And how does raising reqs to 110+ put us on DF/Vr's level? Lol? I can rattle off 15 clans easily that we can still fight with those reqs that aren't top clans.

If we can easily fight 15 clans at the 110+ level why have we lost the past 15 fights with clans at the 100+ level?

wat. We fought like 1, MAYBE 2 clnas with 100+ reqs lately. Rest have been 105-110+, and it makes a big difference.

Well you just proved my point :S

QUOTE

Lordy just refused to ride it out.

Not really. We all refused to ride it out, hence 36 out of 52 votes to put the reqs back down. Can't blame that on Gene.

Yeah, it was a group failure.

And who's to say it won't be another group failure if we raise again?

1. Don't raise. Mass recruit 100+. Keep fighting 100+ clans, start winning. Better turnouts and progression faster. Ability moderate, improves over time.

2. Raise. Try and recruit 110+ or whatever (harder). Start fighting 110+ clans, keep losing. Turnouts and ability improves but slowly. Progression a lot slower.

Between those 2 options, #1 is the one that doesn't put both clan and leadership under a lot of pressure and is least likely to fail.

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[05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic
[05:42] <%kat> same

IRC Nickname:
Group: Elite Guardian
Posts: 7306
Member No.: 47
Joined: December 30, 2007
Total Events Attended: 343

You say we make the same mistake of raising requirements yet not raising them has never worked either.
We still end up in the same cycle, yet raising reqs is the same mistake every time?

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July 5, 2007 - June 27, 2011

IRC Nickname: Chimpy
Group: Banned
Posts: 2521
Member No.: 1474
Joined: November 16, 2008
Total Events Attended: 133

QUOTE: Quikdrawjoe @ February 25, 2010 01:24 pm)

You say we make the same mistake of raising requirements yet not raising them has never worked either.
We still end up in the same cycle, yet raising reqs is the same mistake every time?

This.

"Mass Recruiting" has never worked, and won't ever work.

Here's how our "recruiting" works.

We go onto a "looking for clan" topic, and post. The person looking for a pking clan see's wg, where warring is a "rare treat", and then they see DF, TRWF, VR, etc; where pking/warring happens 3-5 days a week and they are successful. Who do you think they're going to chose.

If you haven't noticed, the stricter clans are the more successful clans. We say we want to be a fun clan, but are we REALLY having fun? Attendance + levels + experience = success and that my friends, is fun.

Win topics brings in recruits, sorry to say but the recruitment team is practically useless.

We can still have a 100+ req for FA or trial and still have a higher req for full member.

Joe is right here. I think we are stuck in the cycle of lowering reqs, not of raising them.

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IRC Nickname: {Rene}
Group: Guest
Posts: 838
Member No.: 267
Joined: February 25, 2008
Total Events Attended: 55

Raising the requirements at the current time will only result in more failure.

Raising the requirements during a time in which we prosper will help improve the clan performance.

I'll put it shortly: Raising the requirements now is a mistake and will only result in nothing being achieved. Raising the requirements when we've already gotten a couple of wins behind our belts will improve the prosperity. The last time the Requirements were raised under circumstances where WG was prospering was after OPH and we never had the chance to see how that evolved because of you Eugene.

Requirements in the current picture are petty and insignificant. You can throw 30 inexperienced and demoralised level 100s-126s at another clan or you can throws 30 inexperienced and demoralised 110-126s at the same clan and you will achieve the same results.

What is making WG lose is not the low levels, what is making us lose is negativity, morale and the unwillingness to win that comes with it. Claiming that you could solve everything by something so passive and long term as a requirements raise is ignorance at it's best.

Just because you will raise the requirements it won't make a clan that hasn't won a war in the past 3 months anymore attractive.

YOU start training up for wars. YOU start pumping members up. YOU start looking at your performance and how you can improve. YOU start acting as a guardian. Instead of complaining and pointing out what everybody else is doing wrong you should be looking for ways on how to help those members and you should be looking for ways to also improve on what you're doing wrong.

Winning a war is done through the effort of a clan, not through the effort of a few individuals.

As for you Eugene, I've known you for ages but maybe you haven't known me for so long. I was there during D-Day and I was in your IRC channel talking with you. I know that you are far from an unreasonable person and I know that ego of yours is part of the clan. But you too should realise, even more so after the events back then. That the clan isn't just you. It is everybody who's willing to adapt, change and add another stone to the house, no the monument, that is WG.

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IRC Nickname: Chimpy
Group: Banned
Posts: 2521
Member No.: 1474
Joined: November 16, 2008
Total Events Attended: 133

QUOTE: Renegade3540 @ February 25, 2010 02:40 pm)

Raising the requirements at the current time will only result in more failure.

Raising the requirements during a time in which we prosper will help improve the clan performance.

I'll put it shortly: Raising the requirements now is a mistake and will only result in nothing being achieved. Raising the requirements when we've already gotten a couple of wins behind our belts will improve the prosperity. The last time the Requirements were raised under circumstances where WG was prospering was after OPH and we never had the chance to see how that evolved because of you Eugene.

Requirements in the current picture are petty and insignificant. You can throw 30 inexperienced and demoralised level 100s-126s at another clan or you can throws 30 inexperienced and demoralised 110-126s at the same clan and you will achieve the same results.

What is making WG lose is not the low levels, what is making us lose is negativity, morale and the unwillingness to win that comes with it. Claiming that you could solve everything by something so passive and long term as a requirements raise is ignorance at it's best.

Just because you will raise the requirements it won't make a clan that hasn't won a war in the past 3 months anymore attractive.

YOU start training up for wars. YOU start pumping members up. YOU start looking at your performance and how you can improve. YOU start acting as a guardian. Instead of complaining and pointing out what everybody else is doing wrong you should be looking for ways on how to help those members and you should be looking for ways to also improve on what you're doing wrong.

Winning a war is done through the effort of a clan, not through the effort of a few individuals.

As for you Eugene, I've known you for ages but maybe you haven't known me for so long. I was there during D-Day and I was in your IRC channel talking with you. I know that you are far from an unreasonable person and I know that ego of yours is part of the clan. But you too should realise, even more so after the events back then. That the clan isn't just you. It is everybody who's willing to adapt, change and add another stone to the house, no the monument, that is WG.

I don't think that raising reqs will instantly make us win wars. I think it is just simply a piece to the puzzle.

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IRC Nickname: ``Pete
Group: Banned
Posts: 913
Member No.: 775
Joined: June 6, 2008
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Chimp, it doesn't look like we're going to get anywhere with this, the only person who can change this is Eugene, he's clearly and bluntly stated he ain't ever going to do it. So god knows where that leaves members who are success hungry.

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Mikel Arteta

Tim Cahill
Nothing But The Best

IRC Nickname: His Lordship
Group: Founder
Posts: 6029
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Joined: December 26, 2007
Total Events Attended: 129

I'm prepared to make compromises around req changes, such and forcing training amoung lower levels. But when I founded WG I had some principles to live by and the req raise is in conflict with some of my principles.

I'm sorry for coming across as so defensive, but it's not within my moral code for WG to raise requirements. I want success and I'll listen to your ideas. You had some very good ones which I know I will consider STRONGLY. Requirements are just a flat out no. Now let's find a solution around them.

Mass recruiting has not worked because we've not done it properly yet. As of this weekend (my first free weekend in a month for WG), I will set it in motion and I have a few things to do:

1. Set up the anniversary
2. Fix the clan forums
3. Prep for the war, and attend it
4. Work hard with Darth on recruitment
5. Put our new Flash on Newgrounds
6. Reset the bans
7. Speak to David about personal trainers
8. Personal stuff with George
9. Lead the Aussie raid

__________

That's all I'll be able to handle in one weekend, but I hope that's enough to show you I'm following up on my promise to revive this clan.

We're all really frustrated becasue since the great war, nothing has happened.
Please remember I was overseas for three weeks and this is my first week back, and it was 90% occupied with Machinima.
Now that Macvhinima is out of focus, I have that time and energy to give to you guys.

So it's about to get a whole lot better. Think of that week leading up to the great war and how worked up WG got.

It's going to be like that again.

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IRC Nickname: Sgtswordfish
Group: Guest
Posts: 1737
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Total Events Attended: 64

it shall be done!

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Goals 2011
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IRC Nickname: Stokenut
Group: Guest
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Sweet, saved myself like an hours reading by missing this topic.
But seriously, yes I agree with more or less everything you said in your post Chimpy.

I'll read it and the replies in detail tomorrow when I wake up.

Fitting 8 hours of RS and 10 hours of WoW into each day is tough, but I'm managing!

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Over 6 years of history and friendship, deleted over a difference in an opinion.

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Challenge any creationist to a debate.
They'll run away and aggressively accuse you of "attacking" them and their "beliefs".
I'm sorry, please, keep teaching our kids that they'll burn in hell if they don't believe. Mutilate their genitals against their will while you're at it. Keep influencing politics and holding back vital scientific research.
I'll just keep my mouth shut to "respect" your "beliefs".

IRC Nickname: Chimpy
Group: Banned
Posts: 2521
Member No.: 1474
Joined: November 16, 2008
Total Events Attended: 133

QUOTE: Stokenut February 25, 2010 08:38 pm

Sweet, saved myself like an hours reading by missing this topic.
But seriously, yes I agree with more or less everything you said in your post Chimpy.

I'll read it and the replies in detail tomorrow when I wake up.

Fitting 8 hours of RS and 10 hours of WoW into each day is tough, but I'm managing!

No time for fap?

Well thank you loads for doin something Gene. I would REALLY like to see reqs raised, because like you said about mass recruiting, I don't think that higher reqs have ever been given a fair chance. Hopefully we can continue to debate this.

Also:

QUOTE

8. Personal stuff with George

Do I want to know? o.o

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IRC Nickname: Sgtswordfish
Group: Guest
Posts: 1737
Member No.: 1758
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^above post is a major FML

mistaken stokenut for gene?

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Goals 2011
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IRC Nickname:
Group: Elite Guardian
Posts: 7306
Member No.: 47
Joined: December 30, 2007
Total Events Attended: 343

QUOTE: Chimpy @ February 26, 2010 01:44 am)

QUOTE: Stokenut February 25, 2010 08:38 pm

Sweet, saved myself like an hours reading by missing this topic.
But seriously, yes I agree with more or less everything you said in your post Chimpy.

I'll read it and the replies in detail tomorrow when I wake up.

Fitting 8 hours of RS and 10 hours of WoW into each day is tough, but I'm managing!

No time for fap?

Well thank you loads for doin something Gene. I would REALLY like to see reqs raised, because like you said about mass recruiting, I don't think that higher reqs have ever been given a fair chance. Hopefully we can continue to debate this.

Also:

QUOTE

8. Personal stuff with George

Do I want to know? o.o

He does that during the 18 hours.

We ideally have numbers, organization, and levels. Currently, we lack all three, without those three our only hope every winning is that the opponent is so below us in those things that they're even worse than us.

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July 5, 2007 - June 27, 2011

IRC Nickname: DG_Keanu
Group: Council
Posts: 4782
Member No.: 2033
Joined: August 25, 2009
Total Events Attended: 173

QUOTE

8. Personal stuff with George

O_o

I agree with Rene I think. Thanks for clearing that up Gene.

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[05:42] <+WG_Keanu> I think I got a semi just looking at the pic
[05:42] <%kat> same