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"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship |
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Posted: March 26, 2009 04:05 am  | |||||
      IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129    | He and I made a deal. He has just done a service to WG and I have granted him ex-member. This is bias, but it is needed. It's a big win for WG.... this service that Mugger has done us. I guess I can tell you, since you'll figure it out eventually. He delivered us Mager as a spy. I can't go into how, but he's obviously ex-council and knows our spy-catching methods. In exchange for clearing out one of our spies, I have granted him ex-member. Its a corrupt deal, but beneficial to both parties. EDIT: If any members absolutely objects, to the point of disgust, PM me and we'll sort it out. Your happiness is more valuable to me than Mugger's. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 04:06 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Billis Group: Clan Friend Posts: 113 Member No.: 1668 Joined: January 28, 2009 Total Events Attended: 8 | Gf? -------------------- "No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main.... Any man's death diminishes me because I am involved in Mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 04:08 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Colin Group: Ex-Member Posts: 2039 Member No.: 68 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 69 | BS. Mugger is a dick. Always has been. He and I never got along and everyone looked down on me for it. Well I had the last laugh until now.. --------------------   Proud WG member from January 2006 - Fall 2009 | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 04:09 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129 | (13:07:52) <+School_Boy19> but mager was already leavig (13:08:01) <@Lordy|Emo> yes its true (13:08:04) <@Lordy|Emo> mager was on his way out (13:08:05) <@Lordy|Emo> BUT (13:08:09) <@Lordy|Emo> to ex-member rank (13:08:17) <@Lordy|Emo> i simply swapped his rank with muggers (13:08:26) <@Lordy|Emo> since mugger showed he is on our side and mager showed he is not -------------------- | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 04:12 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Anatcrafter Group: Emeritus Posts: 1419 Member No.: 69 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 292 | Didn't he mess with #wgwilderness permissions just last week so noone could enter? Why the sudden change of attitude from him? --------------------  | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 04:14 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129 | Exactly. I have my suspicions about him. I can't PROVE he leaked to Dale but there are ways of finding out. Innocent until proven guilty. I'm going to be doing very extensive background checks. If I find the tiniest blemish of proof, he's going down. I JUST sent him a PM saying that this rank may not be permanent, if he was found guilty. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 04:54 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Karlfischer Group: Ex-Member Posts: 664 Member No.: 124 Joined: January 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 55 | I would disagree, (but not to the point of disgust) as I think it is a bad call on three grounds: First off, Mugger did us no service. Mager was going to leave on his own already, there was really no point in banning him. If the choice is between Mager or Mugger getting ex-member, Mugger is the much more dangerous one to have in that position. He has much more potential to cause drama or discontent in the clan--just the fact that he was unbanned may cause some discontent. You are giving up much more than you are gaining. Second, it sends a bad message to the members that you would trust a banned member over an elite guardian. Granted, Mugger was ex-council and Mager was leaving, but it really looks bad that you are getting evidence from someone whose credibility and intentions are dubious. Third, it undermines your own authority. Unbanning a member because they were wrongly banned in the first place is quite a legitimate and understandable exception. This however cannot be justified except if we are to accept that we put a price on being banned, and if members can pay this price in one way or another, they can get out of the ban. Members are not going to take you seriously anymore when you say a ban is permanent. --------------------   | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 05:15 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Group: Ex-Member Posts: 201 Member No.: 1646 Joined: January 18, 2009 Total Events Attended: 6 | As an ex-council member, Mugger knows information that I'm sure Gene would rather not make its way into the wrong hands. It is hardly a crime to offer a good faith thing such as this to keep him on neutral terms so he doesn't fuck us over. I know I'd rather have Mugger as an Ex Member than have him on RSC spewing lies about WG out of spite. -------------------- RSC Moderator  Originally Joined WG August 19, 2005 | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 05:29 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Karlfischer Group: Ex-Member Posts: 664 Member No.: 124 Joined: January 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 55 |
Good point. However, WG stands to be damaged much more by internal dynamics than external ones. In other words, there is more risk of discontent from members thinking that there is a culture of favoritism and corrupt/clandestine activities than of Mugger stirring up something outside the clan. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 05:31 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Ex-Member Posts: 201 Member No.: 1646 Joined: January 18, 2009 Total Events Attended: 6 |
I do agree. I think the proper avenue should have been guest or clan friend so that he is left with no exceptional permissions, but still can take solace in the fact that he isn't banished. -------------------- RSC Moderator Originally Joined WG August 19, 2005 | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 06:53 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 | Is it just me or did that little debate/discussion (between Karl and Tmal) become a battle of vocabulary? In any case, I personally disagree with the unbanning of Mugger simply because you go against your own rules. It's simple "practice what you preach." If you want the members to respect your rules, you have to show you're not above them. --------------------   | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 07:11 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: megajayson Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 9246 Member No.: 423 Joined: April 4, 2008 Total Events Attended: 216 | ah, and i see my rank got changed too lol. good thing with this --------------------  This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill Fifteen percent concentrated power of will Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain And a hundred percent reason to remember the name! 7th Highest Overall for Wars Attended. | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 07:56 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Mickey Group: Emeritus Posts: 5305 Member No.: 48 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 282 | Let him have Ex-Member until he does something wrong. After the other things he's done including adding everyone to auto kick ban in #wgwilderness and not doing his two weeks, this should be his last chance. --------------------    | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 11:13 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Slayer123121 Group: Ex-Member Posts: 319 Member No.: 1753 Joined: March 6, 2009 Total Events Attended: 12 | Thomas why do u care about Rsc so much, who gives a shit? Honestly it's all about poltics on there anyway if u win the other team say they win it's all Bs. I still don't understand why you'd unban Mugger, at least Mager binded and attended EVERY PK for us, i'd love to see some proof that he's a spy cos i just don't see it. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 12:45 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Pazenon Group: Emeritus Posts: 1477 Member No.: 33 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 79 | Sadly, I have got to disagree with this. Does he really deserve this ex-member privilege? Showing his evidence against Mager doesn't necessarily mean that he's doing us a favor. It could probably show that he just wanted WG to be one PvPer less. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 02:19 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Rexibit0 Group: Guest Posts: 91 Member No.: 1765 Joined: March 15, 2009 Total Events Attended: 2 | I am not going to claim to know the full scope of the story. However, after having read other member's replies on this thread and throughout the forum, I will say that this decision from the standpoint of management in general is going to hurt the clan far more than His Lordship even considers. Mugger84 may have at one time been a good member, but what did he begin to show towards the end of his time here? He caused massive dramas, sought and implemented sabotage, etc. This show of character alone should be enough to say that the "credible evidence" was given with malicious and deeper intentions than what appears. What is to say that the evidence he gave was not staged, altered in photoshop, taken out of context, etc.? Here is what I do know: Taken earlier this hour before I even found this thread. It is in pieces because it took a bit to show that he honestly had no clue that he was a spy.
Honestly, I could care less about the outcome, if the motives were pure. Flippie I have chatted with a good bit since I started looking into this clan. I am a very strong analyzer of conversations and know when I am being played, I not once picked up anything not honest about what he led me to believe about him. In fact, he never downed the clan. I asked him yesterday about him leaving, he said he had considered it for awhile. He said that before WG, he PK'd a lot with friends in the wilderness. When he joined WG, his PK'ing needs were not met nearly as much. Now, he wanted to focus on other parts of his life. He led me to believe that he didn't want to lose friendships here. So, why would he be a spy for someone and risk those friendships? Rationality doesn't coincide with past actions here. However, Mugger84's past actions fit in nicely with this situation. I will support whatever decision is made. However, I ask, is this going to be the norm from now on? Will actions that affect the entire clan be taken on a whim that discredits over a year of past history of caring about and supporting the clan? Really, someone that has shown they can't be trusted again and again being given a position of honor says a lot about this clan if this becomes the norm. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 02:30 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: ``Pete Group: Banned Posts: 913 Member No.: 775 Joined: June 6, 2008 Total Events Attended: 49 |
I wish he'd let that i was unbanned drop, keep seeing that in posts. However I guess I can't argue with this. -------------------- Mikel Arteta  Tim CahillNothing But The Best | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 02:50 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | I never had much of a problem with Mugger, it's a little annoying to see people beating on him when he's not here. Anyways, I'm not really interested in how this plays out, more curious how long we'll keep up the "bans are permanent" idiom. It'll be really interesting if it doesn't go away.  --------------------  | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 02:55 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129 | Rexibit, the evidence is irrefutable. There is no way he could NOT have been spying on WG. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 03:09 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Rexibit0 Group: Guest Posts: 91 Member No.: 1765 Joined: March 15, 2009 Total Events Attended: 2 | Be that as it may Gene, the source of the evidence is the problem. While not everyone may have had an issue with Mugger, the precedence you are setting forth by giving him Ex-Member status for providing a "service" as compensation for past actions is not a wise idea. 1) If you are going to make bans permanent, then let them be. Not doing so undermines the finite nature of the action. 2) The past character that Mugger84 has shown of late with IRC and intentionally causing drama that separates the clan should be enough to know that the motives for wanting access to these forums, regardless of the lengths to get them, could have a malicious intent. 3) If you are worried about him telling WG secrets, then why give him access that allows him to gain knowledge of "current" ones? Keeping your friends close and enemies closer is not a wise move in this situation. I could go on and discuss more on this issue, but you get the general idea. He didn't want to help out the clan in the past, what makes you think he has its interests in mind now? -------------------- | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 03:17 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | Mugger was a council member who got frustrated and banned himself on the way out. If there's more to the story then I should probably hear it, but if not Mugger and malicious don't exactly look right in the same sentence. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 03:30 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Gusmighster Group: Emeritus Posts: 1360 Member No.: 46 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67 | I dunno man, I just can't believe that Flippie would be a spy. I mean, why would he be so adamant about the raid turnouts? Why would have have let me on his account many-a-time to war? Why would he leave? It just doesn't add up for me.. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 03:32 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Rexibit0 Group: Guest Posts: 91 Member No.: 1765 Joined: March 15, 2009 Total Events Attended: 2 | Someone using their access to IRC to kick WG members on entrance is malicious, especially if they are not even in the clan. Someone deliberately causing drama to create clan unrest is malicious. Neither are beneficial to the clan's well being. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 04:03 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Cam Group: Ex-Member Posts: 749 Member No.: 24 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 69 | I don't want him here. You put in this sytem of that "banning is forever" and you should keep to it, granted he caught us Mager, but he broke the rules, he was banned on just level. This is Bias, un-needed and your starting to contradict your own actions. Edit: After re-reading some of the arguments i saw that Bobster125's name has come up alot, Bobster125 was found to be unjustly banned by proof given to the council. The difference is, that Mugger84 deserved the ban he got. --------------------  Halo 3 - General Grade 3 ~ CoD4 - 10th Prestige 55 ~ MW2 - 9th Prestige 50 Joined WG 8th August 2006 - Im old School son | ||||
Posted: March 26, 2009 04:04 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Ex-Member Posts: 201 Member No.: 1646 Joined: January 18, 2009 Total Events Attended: 6 |
RSC is as much of a clan as WG is, and I am a member of it. I'm on the staff there and care about the success of the forum and recognize how important it is for clan politics. Granted some clans can live without it, for example Mori, but in general, most clans need publicity to sustain their quantity and quality of members. -------------------- RSC Moderator Originally Joined WG August 19, 2005 | ||||
Mugger84
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