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"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship |
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Posted: June 30, 2009 08:28 pm  | |||||
      IRC Nickname: Lefty Group: Emeritus Posts: 3340 Member No.: 1055 Joined: June 30, 2008 Total Events Attended: 211    | Alright. I am seriously fed up with a few things going on. Honestly, most of it is the council and tertiaries. A few things that I believe need to be highlighted. The staff is being too lenient. Just today, I have seen 2 banned members in our lobby. I have seen 2 ex-members in #WG, and I have seen 1 of those ex-members as a half op. Seriously? Is this acceptable? Tighten up and don't be afraid to piss off someone. We set rules, we ban people, and we do many other things to try to help control things, and when those with the power don't use it correctly, very little success happens (for more on the emphasized part, read below..). The staff is constantly power abusing. Kicking other council, kicking other tertiaries, kicking other members. It is all ridiculous. It is immature. Ok, so I may have kicked Groe and Saad today when IRC screwed up, but after that, I de-oped and went back to my own business. It is only funny the first time. All of the council have had their position for at least 50 days now. It is extremely old and I know I am not the only person tired of it. The staff isn't respecting others. Today at an event, I saw a ranked member go out and attack another member randomly. When asked to stop, he/she didn't stop. This was not part of the way the event was supposed to run. Why must you ruin someone else's plans for an event? That sure isn't respecting your fellow members. Just calm down, grow up, and respect others. It will get you a long way in life. The staff is pretty lazy. I constantly see staff defer their work onto others. No one seems to take the work when we all know things need to be done. Where are the MoTM and promotions for May? I believe I ranted about this when it didn't happen in February, and yet again, it isn't happening. A new event leader is elected, and all of the sudden we have events. What are the other event leaders doing to put in their fair share of events? Hell.. are the event leaders even updating their attendance for the events? It is just getting out of control. If we plan on going up, we need to get shit done. I don't even know if the tertiaries+council care for WG anymore. If they do, they sure don't show it by putting in the effort. I know that everyone wants to have fun, but you had your own ways of having fun before you received your rank, so resume those methods instead of using your new "abilities" to have fun. You were given/elected your rank because you are meant to represent the clan. As a new member, I would look at the ranked members to see how they acted, so I knew what was expected of me. If I was to come into WG and see this behaviour, I would possibly not join or I would model it when I became council. Think of all of this multiplying over the years... WG would be horrible. All of these things need to be corrected in order for us to reach the quality of clan that Eugene wants us to reach. Tighten up. Warn me or do whatever you want if I offended you. Too bad it is all the truth. /rant --------------------      | ||||
Posted: June 30, 2009 08:33 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: ThisIsUnique Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1664 Member No.: 1417 Joined: October 30, 2008 Total Events Attended: 141 | +1 --------------------   | ||||
Posted: June 30, 2009 09:03 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: bto Group: Emeritus Posts: 3815 Member No.: 196 Joined: February 3, 2008 Total Events Attended: 332 | I agree alot with what was said, especially with respect wise. You guys know who you are. I remember when I was a raid leader and I hosted practices; Many of the times the people who weren't listening were staff . You guys are leaders, start acting like it. Don't start screwing with someones events unless you want your event to be screwed with. Its quite annoying to have someone sniping you the entire time while trying to lead a practice. I also agree alot with power abuse. Even as council, sometimes Ill wake up in the morning to find out I'd been kicked hours before. Its funny maybe the first time or so, but it gets old really fast and actually starts getting annoying. I've been saying for a while now in level 3 that some of the teritaries need to start stepping up or step down, but for the most part it has improved. As for promotions, people should not expect them. Promotions are earned, not freely given out monthly like candy. I will agree that as a whole, the council could be more productive. MOTM and many other basic things have not been taken care of. Alot of it reflects on staff themselves too. How can you lead properly when your members don't respect you because you act like an idiot? We have to be role models. Stop screwing around and do your job. -------------------- bto  Ex-WG Warlord  "It is our direction, not our intentions, that lead us to our destinations." | ||||
Posted: June 30, 2009 09:22 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: [1 bad john] Group: Guest Posts: 75 Member No.: 1922 Joined: June 25, 2009 Total Events Attended: 14 | Well maybe i am a better possition to comment on how a few of you guys make WG look to new members and let me tell you this its not very good. You guys are always kicking each other and takin the piss outta each other it will continue to get worse as the years go on, i know you all want the old WG back well let me put it this way there is only one way to get it and that is to work hard, stick together, do the work that needs to be done as soon as it comes up so then the work wont get left for around 5 days before you forget about it and it ends up another lose end, His Lordship has held this clan up by the scruff off the neck for along time we need to start putting the work in to make his and the other leaders lifes easier. And this go's to the members also, you may think "im only a member, what i do wont matter" well this is where you are wrong if people see WG members making fools of themselfs in public it will reflect badly on WG, c'mon guys get your heads down and get the work done. ~~John~~ -------------------- | ||||
Posted: June 30, 2009 10:12 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Angus0000 Group: Emeritus Posts: 705 Member No.: 572 Joined: May 3, 2008 Total Events Attended: 128 | I completely agree. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: June 30, 2009 10:29 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 | I agree with the laziness of the staff completely. I know I have not been hosting as much as I should, but once I get back home I promise I will. A lot of it dealt with the low pulls but now that it is summer and we are getting more and more people coming to events, I can host events that require bigger pulls for more enjoyment. I realize I have not been pulling all my weight and I will step up. Like BTO said about promotions, they should not be expected each month but MoTM is something that we really need to start back up. The power abusing, I have no real comment on. I do not do it and am never really around when it happens. Though my opinion has always been that Staff should not do it at all because it only decreases the respect the clan has for that particular person. --------------------   | ||||
Posted: June 30, 2009 10:40 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: [1 bad john] Group: Guest Posts: 75 Member No.: 1922 Joined: June 25, 2009 Total Events Attended: 14 |
Proud of this guy for his honesty, and im glad he knows hes in the wrong and plans to ix it  gj man ~~John~~ -------------------- | ||||
Posted: June 30, 2009 11:14 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Rockyallstar Group: Guest Posts: 41 Member No.: 1925 Joined: June 28, 2009 Total Events Attended: 3 |
I agree with John completely, I've been in this clan for only a few days and the view I have of this clan is not very good. Atleast some of you say you are going to change and work harder but that only goes so far, and sometimes doesnt happen. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: June 30, 2009 11:21 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: DyIan Group: Emeritus Posts: 1205 Member No.: 1638 Joined: January 15, 2009 Total Events Attended: 107 |
I don't agree with the first statement. Many gaurdians deserve promotions and I could give you a list. The odd thing was, when I joined, promotions were given every month. I agree 100% with the council not giving a full effort. It's the summer, there is usually some extra time on your hands. If there isn't, then i'm positive you could make it. As for excuses, WG tasks should always come before fucking around on RS or stuff. --------------------   | ||||
Posted: June 30, 2009 11:48 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: [JC] Group: Emeritus Posts: 3320 Member No.: 23 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 147 |
This is the kind of attitude that causes WG council to never last much more than 6 Months. Its easy to say that when you haven't ever been a leader in WG yourself, I'm sure allot of members will probably agree that council work should come ahead of having fun on RS. What people forget is that 'council work' could actually be a full time job if you really did put it ahead of RS 100% of the time. Its also difficult when you have 4-5 council located on all sides of the world and as a result you have to wait normally 12-24 hours before you can get a response to any post you might make. It may look simple from the outside, but its not as simeple as just saying 'Okay, MoTM time.... I'm giving it to X, X and X'. I agree with attitude affecting peoples view of WG when it is seen in the lobby, but frankly, I want people to see WG as a fun, friendly clan so I dont see anything wrong with people acting a little 'funny' in lobby. What I cant stand is people being rude or abusive in there, that is totally not on. As for the council taking the piss out of each other.... Doesnt that show that they're good friends not that they want to be rude? I certainly know I would only be rude (sarcastically) to a person I knew I was friendly with, I doubt anyone actually means what they say anyway. There has always been friendly banter between staff and I dont think thats about to change. --Edit-- I'll Just add, don't forget that this is WG.... We have our quirks and we always have and will. Don't expect it to be like every other sterotypical clan, because it won;t be like that. --------------------  Old awards wat Most Mature & Most Honourable Most Dedicated|IRC Freak|Best Emeritus Placeholder lolz | ||||
Posted: June 30, 2009 11:51 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Spicy63 Group: Emeritus Posts: 785 Member No.: 50 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 0 | If they can't commit to the time needed to be part of WG's Council; they should not have applied in the first place, or if circumstances changed, should step down to have another member take their position. They knew what was in store when they first applied, there were warnings given. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: July 1, 2009 12:02 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 | I read this and null my comments at this time. I may edit my response before I leave. Rachel --------------------  Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~  | ||||
Posted: July 1, 2009 12:14 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Darth Group: Ex-Member Posts: 4601 Member No.: 838 Joined: June 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 558 |
Coming from Ex-council, JC knows what he's talking about. Dylan, I'll be honest, that post made it seem like you think council is almost a walk in the park. What JC said is true- it looks much more simple watching it, but until you experience a leadership role as important as council of WG, you won't know what it's like. Then again, I probably haven't been doing the best I could do as council. I've been putting off promotions and MoTM simply because I don't know how. George needs to log on more.  --------------------  | ||||
Posted: July 1, 2009 12:33 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Mr Glennfase Group: Emeritus Posts: 3064 Member No.: 39 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 220 | I'm guilty of most things you brought up. I'd be lying if I said I was sorry. I'm a lazy ass person and there's a reason I'm stepping down from council. I'm a power abuser. That's always how I've been. Its playful. Only serious things are serious.  Rob and DBC were the two banned members. I didn't ban them since it was likely that Lordy cleared the ban list, which he has done before, on purpose. Besides, Rob is fun to talk to. Also, I never respect anyone. You saw me flame Eve on TS today haha. -------------------- That's Mr. Glennfase to you. Ex-Warlord/Council  | ||||
Posted: July 1, 2009 12:39 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Vephy Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 6186 Member No.: 813 Joined: June 10, 2008 Total Events Attended: 478 | Ya I've noticed too. I'm glad I just became event leader. I'm going to try my hardest to get activity going toward events. I do need support from the members though. If you are not signed up tell me why. Be completely honest, I can take it. Just give me feedback and throw in your own ideas too  That is how good things start. I'm also will to do any kinda event other event leaders are unable to do because they are busy In mean time I will try to think of new and innovative ways to make events and promote them. --------------------   | ||||
Posted: July 1, 2009 01:04 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Lefty Group: Emeritus Posts: 3340 Member No.: 1055 Joined: June 30, 2008 Total Events Attended: 211 | Whoever leaked this topic, good job. You are only setting us back. I am thinking I know who it is, but I will continue to keep my mouth shut instead of spouting names. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: July 1, 2009 08:49 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: DyIan Group: Emeritus Posts: 1205 Member No.: 1638 Joined: January 15, 2009 Total Events Attended: 107 |
The thing about my personality is that if i'm given a task, i'd maked sure it was finished no matter what. I could compare a "council position" to a irl job. There are workers who fuck around and don't do their job and then their are workers who finish the job and do extra. There is a difference between giving your best and then not even trying. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: July 1, 2009 10:23 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Indivi2you Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 5361 Member No.: 43 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 623 | This is an attack at staff aye?  lol jkMY POST IS CLEARLY FROM MY POINT OF VIEW ABOUT ME I'm too lenient - naw im just a good kid. Sure i got you, i power abuse - bite me. I don't hold events - no, you just dont check the events forum or recaps. I don't have respect - go die now please. As for promotions - it's been said before, don't look to be promoted. They come as we want them to, not as you want them to. Same for MotM. You may think we just skipped promo's last month, or maybe we just didn't do it because nobody deserved to be promoted. -------------------- The First, The Last, and the Only ~FLO Never say never, because limits, like fears, are often just an illusion. ~Michael Jordan      | ||||
Posted: July 1, 2009 10:25 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 7306 Member No.: 47 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 343 | hear hear, the ranks need to adjust their attitude before they tell me to adjust mine. -------------------- July 5, 2007 - June 27, 2011 | ||||
Posted: July 1, 2009 10:54 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Owennnn Group: Emeritus Posts: 1447 Member No.: 37 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 55 | Okay, before you guys skip what I'm gonna post and ignore it, I was a WG Council Member a couple of years ago. And it's no easy job. You get people PMing you everyday, you get complaints on IRC all the time, you rarely get chance to play the game how you want to play it. You take your free RS time and devote it to Council matters, and you end up only playing RS for events, which, while being good for the clan, can be less fun for you. Discussions involving the entire council about even the smallest things can drag on for days, even weeks, simply because of time differences, without it being extremely awkward, you cannot have every council member from each major timezone on at all times. So any decisions regarding the clan take a long time to be decided, you have to wait maybe 24 hours for a reply, then you have to reply and wait another 24 hours until the case is settled, which it rarely is. WG is a Runescape clan, yet somehow Councilship seems to make even the biggest no-lifers RS inactive. And once that happens, who would want to be Council any more? Who would want to be a leader of a clan for a game they don't play? Simple, noone. This is what tends to cause Council inactivity. While yes, Council is an important job, and should be treated as such, the entire rank, and this entire clan would not be here without one major thing, the game. At the end of the day, most people just wanna play the game. I'll be honest, when I was Council, I wasn't the best Councillor WG has had, hell, I may have been one of the worst, especially if all the criteria for a bad Councillor is what Lefty has listed above, because I was guilty of all of them. What matters is context. Sure I may have kicked people from IRC for no reason, but in the context it happens is essential, they were my friends, and they knew, and I knew, that it was in jest, an attempt to alleviate any stress or tension in the IRC by creating comedy. Leniency is a wonderful thing, without it you become a machine, uncompromising and unforgiving. Some people, not many, but some, may remember Trutramx60 (Nathan) and Joey_Junior (Joe), they left WG on bad terms, and as such should not have been allowed in #wg_lobby, however, they were both close friends of mine, and a number of other members of WG, so I let them in the IRC, but only under a personal agreement with me, that if they fooled around, they would be gone instantly. It was a win-win situation, me and my friends could stay in touch, the IRC was as friendly as ever and got to experience some of the greatest characters WG has ever been a home too. Laziness, it's not laziness that stops Council members from performing certain tasks, it's an inability to handle the extreme workload the members put on you. You get up, log onto the forums, and immediately have work to do, you can't just go and chill in the House of Random, you have to do applications, validate new members, remove inactives, sort out memberlists, maybe member of the month, maybe there's an important topic in level 3 that requires your attention. It's the same on IRC, you log on, and you'll get people in the lobby asking for wars, and people in #WG asking for wars, and people asking for a million other things. Now, if, somehow you manage to get all these tasks sorted, you might have a little bit of free time to play RS, but no, you have to attend events, and maybe sort out attendance for that. And then you do it again tomorrow. What I'm trying to say is, Council is demanding, and it takes a unique individual to be able to handle the workload day in and day out, and being in that position makes you lose so much drive to play a game, that is the reason we are all here. While people can say that being Council is like a job "irl", in some ways it is, but what payment does Council get? Threads like these saying the job they're doing is terrible. RuneScape is a game, noone has any life threatening issues in a game, you should be honoured that these 4 people are willing to step up and do all the work that they do without any thanks, or reward. I think some people need to lighten up and realise that practically everyone is here to play the game. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: July 1, 2009 11:22 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Tnuac Group: Emeritus Posts: 1806 Member No.: 51 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 58 | Owen just hit the nail on the head there. That's one of the best insites you can get into council. If you think 'nah, that's rubbish', you're wrong. You only know what the ride's like when you're in the seat. Leniancy is all part of being human. And its that human instinct that keeps the community strong and stops it becoming robotic and grey. Council are wise enough to be leniant in a way which does not affect other people. If anyone feels like the leniancy is too great, they need to tell the council member straight off. Its no use saying weeks later 'council member XYZ sucks because he's too leniant', you need the context. Power abuse, again, is harmless if its done between friends. People need to speak up on a private basis if they're bothered by it. Usually, its fine as long as it doesn't get out of hand. Anything to break up tension is great. If any staff member is lazy, the other staff will find out and deal with it. A member has no place to call staff lazy, because the vast majority of the council's work is done behind the scenes. Hell, when I was council we had about 12 outstanding issues to deal with on top of all the regular stuff. Its the council's duty to find the genuinely lazy people and, if necessary, get them to step down. I've had to do a few times. I'm just saying this from personal experience, I don't know the context. Just keep it in mind, you need to understand their reasons behind their actions, and most importantly appreciate the work that they do do. They're not getting any reward. The novelty of being high ranked soon wears off, trust me. They're basically volunteer workers. Still, its important to still keep everything in check and make sure everyone is pulling their weight. -------------------- ~Aetas: carpe diem quam minimum credula postero~ "Seize the day and place no trust in tomorrow"  | ||||
Posted: July 1, 2009 11:43 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Indivi2you Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 5361 Member No.: 43 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 623 | Well said by the veterans... -------------------- The First, The Last, and the Only ~FLO Never say never, because limits, like fears, are often just an illusion. ~Michael Jordan | ||||
Posted: July 2, 2009 12:23 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | Short version: hack off the fat. It might be worth stepping back and taking a look at how the clan actually functions right now from an organizational perspective. From starting out simple we evolved into a structure able to handle the massive number of members we had in the past, but we're a drastically smaller clan now than we were (25-33% give or take). If we can go through the system and simplify things, it'd take an excessive burden off the council and allow them to actually do whats best for the clan instead of spending all their time weighed down by busy work. Do we really need the guardian score right now? Do we need to keep excessive track of every event that every person attends, or can we just checklist people off who attend an event that week? The total events counter looks neat and gives bragging rights and information the council can use I suppose, but is it worth the work right now? I don't really know since I'm not sure how things are run, but its something to think about. Then again, another option would be to delegate as much as possible wherever possible, letting some of the members help with keeping things updated instead of making the council and tertiaries do it all. Why can't we have forum moderators who are able to change ranks and deal with the forum stuff that occurs every day? I'm not sure if that'd be applicable or if it'd just add another level of confusion, but these are things we should be focusing on. We're a clan of 50, we don't need the infrastructure of a clan of 200 right now. And if you don't have enough time to look into this as a council member, that's all the more reason to make it a priority. PS: In addition, the council has taken on tremendous duties compared to what they used to do years ago. An example would be promotions; members used to keep track of their own performance then post an application for a promotion when they met the prereqs; from there the council examined it, asked questions, and then either accepted or denied the application for a later date. Now the council has an individual thread on every member of the clan that they have to keep meticulously updated in order to evaluate the performance of everyone and decide whether or not that person "deserves" a promotion with no clear cut criteria about how that should actually be decided. I imagine that alone takes up an excessive amount of time that could otherwise be spent, and there's probably many other examples the council could identify and begin thinking about how to simplify or improve. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: July 2, 2009 03:24 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Jenny Group: Emeritus Posts: 1967 Member No.: 19 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 56 | Being council is not a walk in the clouds, however, there should be respect for the rules and to not abuse power. It does set a bad example. When you do the council job correctly there isn't a heck of a lot of free time to even play RS, you should take the time though. The game is where the clan heart is, not on the forums or irc or TS. Those are just tools to make us closer. I appreciate the people who spoke up and said they could improve. The person who can't improve and just makes excuses is frankly full of BS. Face it folks clan leaders are just like everyone else, they are human, not machines. Its a hard place to walk with people doing a lot of second guessing on your decisions. --------------------   | ||||
Posted: July 2, 2009 06:10 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Lefty Group: Emeritus Posts: 3340 Member No.: 1055 Joined: June 30, 2008 Total Events Attended: 211 | Fair argument of those who have posted on here, however, any person will not get better if they do not know what it is that others feel like is not good enough. If they even think it will improve a little, it is effort into the right state of mind. This is just my opinion on the things that those that the topic concerns can improve on. They can take it and fix it to what I would like to see happen, or they can continue on with what they have been doing and see what happens from there. -------------------- | ||||
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