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 The Spying Poll
Posted: September 8, 2009 07:33 amTop
   
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IRC Nickname: His Lordship
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Vote honestly. Think hard about your stance on spying and how much you like or dislike it. You may post below explaining your result if you wish. If you are for spying, don't automatically vote 10 if you are not truly desperate to have it. Likewise, if you don't like it, don't just vote 1 unless you are absolutely disgusted by spying.
 
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Posted: September 8, 2009 07:35 amTop
   
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IRC Nickname: Bam
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go spies!
 
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Posted: September 8, 2009 07:41 amTop
   
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IRC Nickname: Abs
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I'm absolutely disgusted by spying.
 
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"I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Wg Council & Secondary Leader - 21/10/07 to 24/12/08
Msn: [email protected]

Posted: September 8, 2009 07:43 amTop
   
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IRC Nickname: Owennnn
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5.
 
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Posted: September 8, 2009 07:44 amTop
   
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IRC Nickname: Zemus
Group: Elite Guardian
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Yes i think we should, maybe not towards clans whom have done nothing to us and are honour. But i don't see anything wrong with spying on clans like distortion, or rot for example.
 
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24th to 2496 Overall   ~  29th to 120 Dungeoneering

~ Guardian since November 2007 ~


- I now play WoW lols -

Server: US Jubei'Thos       Faction: Horde
   85 Blood-Elf Paladin
  85 Troll Hunter

Posted: September 8, 2009 07:46 amTop
   
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At this stage there are 3 for, 3 against, and 1 fencesitter.
This is gonna be an interesting debate.
 
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Posted: September 8, 2009 07:53 amTop
   
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IRC Nickname: Colin
Group: Ex-Member
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Really couldn't care either way.



On a side note though, it is rather sad watching WG sink lower and lower to the depths of normal clans. 3 years ago, we would not even consider having spies. Now with the tight gear restrictions, tight activity requirements, spying, etc...WG is becoming less and less appealing to me...it's losing the "fun and free for everyone" attitude that we used to have.
 
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Proud WG member from January 2006 - Fall 2009

Posted: September 8, 2009 07:59 amTop
   
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QUOTE (Colinwarrior @ September 08, 2009 07:53 am)
Really couldn't care either way.



On a side note though, it is rather sad watching WG sink lower and lower to the depths of normal clans. 3 years ago, we would not even consider having spies. Now with the tight gear restrictions, tight activity requirements, spying, etc...WG is becoming less and less appealing to me...it's losing the "fun and free for everyone" attitude that we used to have.

My thoughts precisely.
I might have a meeting for 2+ year old members.
We'll set out an agenda to send us old school.
 
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Posted: September 8, 2009 08:02 amTop
   


IRC Nickname: BPN
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5
 
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No WG without a Retard,,

Proud rejoining since 07^

Store manjuice in a cup, a jar is prefered.

Posted: September 8, 2009 08:12 amTop
   
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IRC Nickname: Vephy
Group: Elite Guardian
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Don't see the benefit. This is just trying to take a shortcut in pvp. Won't even work.
 
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Posted: September 8, 2009 08:25 amTop
   
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IRC Nickname: dieyou2000
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QUOTE (vephyrus @ September 08, 2009 03:12 am)
Don't see the benefit. This is just trying to take a shortcut in pvp. Won't even work.

Spy!!!!!!!!!! madeoface.gif
 
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Posted: September 8, 2009 10:07 amTop
   
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IRC Nickname: rachellove
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I voted 4, only cause I'm not into the raids/wars like the others. If I really voted for my own self it would of been a 1. I don't think we need to be number one in pvp by spying tbh. Is it really number one if you get it by cheating?

Why do we need to be number one in pvp again? Someone explain that to me.
 
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Thank you Garrett and Dallar.
“The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems
is the day you have stopped leading them.
They have either lost confidence that you can help them
or concluded that you do not care.
Either case is a failure of leadership.”
~~Colin Powell ~~

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Posted: September 8, 2009 11:21 amTop
   
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IRC Nickname: Owennnn
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QUOTE (rachellove9 @ September 08, 2009 10:07 am)

Why do we need to be number one in pvp again?  Someone explain that to me.

Why not? It's something to strive for, and we've been there in p2p before.
 
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Posted: September 8, 2009 11:46 amTop
   
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IRC Nickname: Lefty
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Honestly, if we go to spying, we definitely need more pulls and better overall activity. For those for spying, step up the activity and make it worth it. Maybe even recruit too. Nothing is more embarrassing than spying on a clan to then get the shit beat out of us because we pulled shit. >_>'

EDIT: At the moment the polls are completely even with the same for and the same against. This is going to be good. For those reading and voting, if you have an opinion on the matter, please voice it. We need persuasion in this thread.
 
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Posted: September 8, 2009 12:32 pmTop
   
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IRC Nickname: DZ
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Turning out to be a close poll indeed.
 
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Now back to the good part!

Posted: September 8, 2009 01:11 pmTop
   
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IRC Nickname: chip54321
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I said no to spying, WG became powerful because it was different from other clans in the way that it had a strict honour code. Spying would make us little better than the clans we hated and once fought.
 
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Posted: September 8, 2009 02:21 pmTop
   


IRC Nickname: imtheganster
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voted 8
 
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Posted: September 8, 2009 02:53 pmTop
   
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IRC Nickname: Pyroclastic0
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I don't agree with spying, alot of clans have gained members over the summer, and that is the thing wg needs fresh blood.

 
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Best pker + most mature summer awards 2011

Posted: September 8, 2009 03:24 pmTop
   
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5
i wouldnt matter but if we would use spies i'd like diff things first
such as better pulls
 
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Posted: September 8, 2009 03:39 pmTop
   
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IRC Nickname: Snowzak
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I voted 3. Know it's none of my business, but I'd like to chip in as this is quite an important issue.

QUOTE (Lefty2802 @ September 08, 2009 11:46 am)
Honestly, if we go to spying, we definitely need more pulls and better overall activity. For those for spying, step up the activity and make it worth it. Maybe even recruit too. Nothing is more embarrassing than spying on a clan to then get the shit beat out of us because we pulled shit. >_>'

My thoughts exactly.

I don't think its worth the risk, nor that this is the time.

Don't read my boring post, the main point is: Spies shouldn't be the SOLUTION for performance, but an ADDITIONAL ADVANTAGE once you ALREADY HAVE considerable PvP power.

Spying isn't a magical solution which'll instantly bring easy targets and easy wins.

Having tried out being a WG spy in FT back in the day, I'll list below the obstacles and the solutions in green that I think would be necessary before thinking about spies.

1) As Lefty said, you need the pull & performance to actually beat the clan you spy on. You don't want to spy on too weak a clan either, its not worth the rep-risk.
--> Improve performance...

2) You need the flexibility: most clans who use spies are able to simply mass up as soon as their spy reports the target clan is out, and go beat the shit out of it. WG has never been the kind of clan that can mass up its full potential in fifteen minutes, and I doubt it is now.
--> Improve activity...

3) Getting an effective spy is long. You have to decide if its worth the effort, and worth risking WG's rep. Building up confidence takes many weeks, if not months. Between the day you implant the spy and the day you decide to use it, WG and the target clan have to still be compatible in terms of performance.
--> Stability, or constant improvement of WG

4) A spy in a clan can't be used too much. Admitting you do have the firepower to wipe out the clan you spy on each time you want to, the other clan will find there's something suspicious and run checks... and the spy's time spent in effort is wasted, as is the clan's rep.
-->Being able to beat not one, but five or six clans in which you have spies, that have a minimum of reputation & wilderness activity, to ensure that its worth the spy's time, and worth the reputation gain for WG.

5) Lastly, for a spying system to be efficient, you'd have to make sure it's kept secret from WG members. That's how intelligence works... otherwise there are leaks, inevitably, in the short or long term.
-->Too late.
 
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London RL Meeting attendee - Paris RL meeting attendee
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Proud Council Member from October 21st 2007 to May 19th 2008

Posted: September 8, 2009 03:49 pmTop
   
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IRC Nickname: His Lordship
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5) Lastly, for a spying system to be efficient, you'd have to make sure it's kept secret from WG members. That's how intelligence works... otherwise there are leaks, inevitably, in the short or long term.
-->Too late.

________

There's ho harm in telling WG we use spies.
As long as our means remain secret there's no harm.
DI members know the leaders spy.
 
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Posted: September 8, 2009 03:54 pmTop
   
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IRC Nickname: Snowzak
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DI is DI. I don't question the guardians' loyalty, but an awful lot of people come and go through these doors.

I meant efficient as "kept secret from the clanworld to keep WG's honourable rep".
 
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Posted: September 8, 2009 03:56 pmTop
   
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I wouldn't want to lie to my clan members. They can know we spy. It's no harm.
 
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Posted: September 8, 2009 04:05 pmTop
   
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IRC Nickname: Snowzak
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The thing is, your clan member can become your enemy within a very short time. Or he can already be your enemy. If spies are reading this topic they're having a big laugh. For all you know I'm a spy, came back from inactivity to haunt WG. Muahahaha.

No but seriously, it all depends if you want to keep the Honourable E-Rep or not... I agree that it seems kind of useless but hey, I've always been the bloodthirsty type.
 
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Posted: September 8, 2009 04:20 pmTop
   
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IRC Nickname: Gorgemaster
Group: Elite Guardian
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3 - I don't think it is a good idea.
If we get find out, our reputation which we have spent years building up will be in absolute tatters. People will not join for the same reasons anymore, we will be considered NH and recruitment WILL fall.
 
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