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"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship |
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Posted: September 6, 2008 07:17 pm  | |||
      IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8    | This is more out of curiosity than anything, but I was wondering about council elections and the application process. When I joined in '05 you applied for everything; you applied to join, you applied to graduate, and every time you wanted to go up a rank you had to apply for it (I was so psyched when I tallied up my first six months and got to apply for Senior Guardian, I think. I totally forget what all the old rank titles were). Why is the system today so different? The same goes for council elections. There seems to be a feeling of "oh screw it it's just a bloody popularity contest" but I remember elections with like 10-12 applicants who all wrote HUGE proposition posts explaining their points of view on different issues and discussing what they'd be working towards if elected. I was a newbie back in those days but I remember thinking it was an incredibly cool thing to do. What's changed? --------------------  | ||
Posted: September 6, 2008 07:34 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Rick Hamm Group: Ex-Member Posts: 573 Member No.: 1214 Joined: July 14, 2008 Total Events Attended: 6 | Well Wayne, in a nutshell, the PEOPLE have changed. That's the only thing I can see right now. -------------------- | ||
Posted: September 6, 2008 07:51 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Mistah_Vince Group: Ex-Member Posts: 2235 Member No.: 233 Joined: February 14, 2008 Total Events Attended: 85 | there's still Applications for everything except for the promotion from Guardian---> Elite Guardian. There were just recently Raid Leader Applications, and not too long ago there was a Council Election. There probably would've been another Council Election had Gene not come back, but Gene came back so they weren't necessary.  --------------------   | ||
Posted: September 6, 2008 08:52 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Rick Hamm Group: Ex-Member Posts: 573 Member No.: 1214 Joined: July 14, 2008 Total Events Attended: 6 | However Vince, elections are nothing more than popularity contests. People don't take into account who would do the best job. This might be off topic and I really don't want to start a USA election thread, but I have quite a few people that I know who are diehard democrat but are voting republican for president just because of what McCain brings to the table in comparison to Obama. It's pretty much the same thing here only the people in OUR elections don't view the incumbents as what they can do, only who they are. -------------------- | ||
Posted: September 6, 2008 10:27 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Mike|Sonix Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1483 Member No.: 13 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 103 |
Very sad, but very true. I saw some extremely good council applications from the last election from members that weren't the most known/popular. I saw similar quality from Tmal's. And I'm not saying he didn't deserve it, but I can almost guarantee that he got a few votes just for people known. And what Vince said is pretty much true. The only thing that isn't an applied position is Guardian to higher, or higher to elite. Also, last November-ish, skill leaders were chosen without an application process. --------------------   | ||
Posted: September 6, 2008 10:50 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Mistah_Vince Group: Ex-Member Posts: 2235 Member No.: 233 Joined: February 14, 2008 Total Events Attended: 85 | Yeah, I'm aware of that Rick. I didn't say they were good or bad, I was just saying that we recently had some. :9 -------------------- | ||
Posted: September 7, 2008 06:12 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Kiwi011 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3052 Member No.: 40 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 21 | IDK....i keep getting the feeling that the apps are rigged to only the councils choice....idk --------------------  | ||
Posted: September 7, 2008 10:05 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 | I remember those old Council Elections. They really were something. They weren't fast like the ones we've got now. The applications were enormous. Each answer carefully thought out. I even remember there being signatures being used as campaign stickers. It was pretty fun stuff. I do think that now they are just popularity contests, for most members anyway. I know we've got some intellectuals here that do actually read the applications and cast their vote based on content and POV as opposed to popularity. My suggestion would be to make the elections "anonymous" next time around. Have the candidates declare their candidacy, but then their application is posted by a Council Member without the name of the applicant. Instead of voting for a person, you're voting for the facts. You'll know who's running, but not what they've said, so you wouldn't be voting for a friend, unless they all said which application was theirs. Here is a simplified version of what I'm saying: - Candidates announce their running - Each candidate submits their application (responses to all questions and such) to a Council Member - Council Member's assign each application a number, and then publicize the applications with the numbers as opposed to the names of the candidates - Voters vote on the application based on responses to the questions, and the vote is done in public - Votes are counted, and winners are declared I mean, I ran in the last election and I knew my chance at winning was next to none because I don't post as much as the rest of the clan. I speak when I really want to say something, but most of the time I just read. I do think though that the current system from Guardian to Elite is perfect. People are rewarded for their efforts. I do remember applying for Senior and Honored, and got them both. Come to think of it, I don't remember ever seeing an application get turned down, but maybe my memory is foggy. I just think any position that comes with responsibility should require an election, and should be structured in a way that eliminates the whole popularity factor. I also don't think the Council should just choose people to go into a certain role, because that isn't respectful to the rest of the clan. --------------------  | ||
Posted: September 7, 2008 10:33 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Jesseh Group: Guest Posts: 2670 Member No.: 297 Joined: March 8, 2008 Total Events Attended: 222 | I remember things like this. I prefer applications to elections because then atleast the council gets a say. I don't like this new promotion for Higher or elite, it's a bit weird.. We've been waiting over 2 months? Rather than people applying when they think they deserve it  --------------------   17/6/08--> 12/9/08--> 29/11/08--> 5/1/09--> 2/3/09(Left)--> 19/7/09(Rejoin)--> 2/8/09
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Posted: September 7, 2008 12:52 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | I was just curious since, on one side everyone's saying "get rid of favoritism" and then everyone just sits on their asses waiting for the council to wander around and randomly select a few people a month for promotions.
Knowing who you're voting for is important though; those posts are only useful if you can compare them with what you already know about the person who's running for the spot. If not you might vote for the perfect person, and then find out he's horrible for the spot but sounded perfect on paper.  -------------------- | ||
Posted: September 7, 2008 10:46 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 | http://www.wildernessguardians.com/forum/i...hp?showtopic=14 This explains what it takes to be a higher guardian. I have read this many times myself and think what have I not done right. I had to decide something thou about it. I can't change how council views me. If they feel that I don't fit this description then I just need to fix what I do wrong. I think it is the unwritten things I do wrong like my combat level and war skills. So I should train more. We have 9 higher guardians in the clan which is less then 10 percent. So I searched out these people and try to watch by thier example. I've been here long enough to know that community is not as important to some people as war. I must say it is sad. If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude. Don't Complain. -Maya Angelou- --------------------  Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~  | ||
Posted: September 9, 2008 02:26 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | I actually can't see the thread, since I'm a trial guardian.  It just seems odd to me that - if I remember right - the council eliminated the application process because it was too cumbersome, whereas now they're stuck tracking the progress of every clan member.I was just curious as to how it's been working out.  -------------------- | ||
Elections and Applications