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Posted: September 30, 2008 10:37 am  | |||||
      IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137    | Well, after all the stuff that's happened lately, last night I was thinking about something that might fix things. This might correlate to the topic made by Ikahigurashi, and I apologize. These really are my own thoughts which I came up with literally as I was falling asleep. First, break the Council up into four parts, each with a main focus, but neither with more power than another. Think of it like the way the US Gov't is formatted, there are three branches. Not saying we are like the US, but just that no part of the whole is any more powerful than another. Now that that's out of the way, here are the four groups I thought of: - Regular Council member like we have now. These guys would kind of overlook what the other Council Members do. These guys would also be more community friendly. So they'd be the ones that would be willing to stop whatever it is they're doing and help a member out (although all Council should do that anyway). These guys would be the ones to make announcements (such as new introductions, or elections) and basically be the face of the Council they'd also be the ones that would come up with new systems of doing things such as applications, requirements, activity requirements and all that stuff (would consult the Mediators just to confirm there's no obvious bias or any major problems). - Warlords, specifically appointed to deal with wars and anything PvP. I give it this name so that people know what these guys are here for. These guys would train us, organize fights strategize and all that. It probably seems like not a lot of work, and that may be the case, but I think that Warring is a big enough component of the clan, that we do need people that are avid fighters. They might not be worked to the bone, but what they would be are fighters. We all knew Robertw56 was a fighter. I actually thought to myself last night "I might not follow him in terms of clan decisions, but if we're in a fight, he's the guy I want to lead me." Rob, if you read this, I honestly feel that way. I just needed to say that. - Event Leaders. I know the name is pretty much the name of our tertiary, but there wasn't anything else I could think of. The idea behind this portion would be not only to host and introduce ToG events, but come up with new innovative ideas that incorporate the skills in a way that most wouldn't think of. These guys would be more Community/Event based, so they'd also host the TS meetings and stuff like that. No, I'm not trying to eliminate the current Event Leader position, I just couldn't think of a name that was better fitted. Skills leader is to narrow because these people wouldn't necessarily be skill focused, they'd use skills to help them improve the community and all that good stuff. The final group of the Council would be: - Mediator These people would basically take on the role of Moderator, but with more responsibility. These people would be the ones to keep an eye on forums, IRC, and petty conflicts that may be brought to their attention. Doesn't sound all that important, but I think it is important enough to deserve a position on the Council. Why? As it is now, the Council members ALL have to deal with Skill related, Community related and War related activities. Each member has people come to them with problems. Also each member has their own preference as to what path WG should take. The downfall of this is, when people who oppose that persons idea, drama starts (Yes, I am referring to the current Rob situation, sorry about it, but it is important that it doesn't happen again). He lashes out, but it's more noticeable because that person has the power to actually make decisions. It's one thing if a member complains to another member. It's a totally different thing when one member complains to a member with power who has a very strong opinion about what should be done. For this reason, all problems, regardless of connection to Skills or Wars would be brought to the Mediators. They would make decisions for the good of the clan, and not take into account their personal opinions. If they are against warring, but know that a certain number of required wars would be good so activity increases, they'd be able to make that decision. Likewise, they'd be the ones to handle the problems such as the responsibility of members to attend PKRIs and whatnot. I know the whole concept is pretty basic and sounds like it's just a way to make more spots for Council, but I think that the division in power would be good for it, and the introduction of the Mediators would be phenomenal. There would be two members for each section of the Council. *Note: One of the General Council Members WOULD be the Primary Leader. I don't think it would make sense to have a Primary Leader look over the people looking over the rest of the Council. This way, he would get just as much say as any other Council member, but not extra power would be involved. The person would be the main face of the clan, but again, power shouldn't be the drive for this position, so there shouldn't be anything extra. That's the basic idea of my suggestion. Read it, and please give me CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. I honestly believe this system would work. The main this is the division of power so there isn't any one body that is more powerful than another, and a division of labor. This would allow each section to focus on what THEY enjoy, and not have to deal with the problems that other have with it because that's where the Mediators would come in to take that load of their shoulders. If this system is put into place, I'd be more than happy to help come up with requirements for each section. --------------------   | ||||
Posted: September 30, 2008 02:17 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | I've been holding back from posting anything this dramatic because I highly doubt it would be seriously considered. If we had a big enough body to create a fully functioning government system then sure, it might be worth a shot, but I think we need something a bit more linear to make a clan work, and the simplest thing is a primary leader over a helpful council. We could give them job descriptions that generally describe their personal interests in furthering the clan, but I can't help but think that equality without someone to control and direct it won't be getting us anywhere. Plus it would cause a fractionalization in the clan hierarchy; you'll have teams of council members who aren't familiar with working with the whole group and there'll be much more friction and resistance than there already is, especially if one council group starts pointing out issues under someone else's jurisdiction. I think all the council should be able to take action across the board without stepping on each others' toes, since from what I understand that's exactly how the sectors failed to admirably. If I was starting a clan from scratch I'd definitely start it off with something more strongly based off a governmental system of checks and balances, just because I'm convinced it'd work if applied correctly and that it'd be loads of fun. But now, with a preexisting clan system, I think we need something quite a bit calmer and more laidback based on the preexisting system rather than inventing something entirely new. Sorry if I misunderstood anything there, just my IMO. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: September 30, 2008 03:44 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Rick Hamm Group: Ex-Member Posts: 573 Member No.: 1214 Joined: July 14, 2008 Total Events Attended: 6 | I think it's a great idea Colonel. Of course, I can think of nobody better to deal with the garbage than you or me.  After all, we've been through it before haven't we? lolActually, in all seriousness, if that's what they want me to do, I'd do it. Something needs to be done because our Council of what...3 people, isn't enough to do the job. We have Event Leaders that don't pull their weight, we have tertiaries who don't pull THEIR weight, and we even have Council that don't pull theirs. There's entirely too much going on right now and in the unforeseen future, that we need people to help. Now all we have to do is convince the leaders that even THEY need help sometimes and that we're here to help. I've said that from day one and so far, I've had one person talk to me about things. C'mon guys, quit being so damn stubborn. We'll get through it. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: September 30, 2008 03:57 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Jesseh Group: Guest Posts: 2670 Member No.: 297 Joined: March 8, 2008 Total Events Attended: 222 | Agreed, but we sort of have that. --------------------   17/6/08--> 12/9/08--> 29/11/08--> 5/1/09--> 2/3/09(Left)--> 19/7/09(Rejoin)--> 2/8/09
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Posted: September 30, 2008 03:58 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Samurai-JM Group: Emeritus Posts: 3204 Member No.: 117 Joined: January 11, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | Very nice layout, the only thing is having TOO many people in a position of power could very easily over-complicate things, create more drama, and thus put us right back in square one. I've seen it happen far too many times to not know what I mean here lol. Personally I believe we keep it simple, but definitely add a bit more to what we have now, because as Rick said, it isn't getting the job done. I've seen what the council has to do, and I know that it is a LOT of work for any group to do. We gotta have competent people that will really work to fix this clan, and some of your suggestions are great for heading in the right direction. -------------------- -=}¤- Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici -¤{=-  W I N N I N G | ||||
Posted: September 30, 2008 08:10 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 | Wayne - I never really saw the jurisdiction thing as a problem because it's not like each section would have boundaries. Like the Event Leaders wouldn't be restricted to Non-Combat skills, therefore they could host Castle Wars, FoG events and such. I probably was a bit to hard on the whole division thing, but the main idea was to have people in the Council to focus on certain issues. They'd all work together of course. Proposals would always be brought to the Mediators for a look over, then given to the General Council to be announced. If one of the Warlords thought of an interesting game that could be played, all he'd have to do is just say it to the Event Leaders on the Council. Yes, it probably would create a bit of tension if a Warlord or Mediator has a great idea, and rather than just hosting an event like that, he has to go through the Event Leaders on the Council. I just figured, the way rules are set out, even the most powerful people in the real world have to do that. The US President can just do stuff randomly, he's got to get approval by the legislature. I hope I was able to clear some stuff up, at least a little bit. If not, do not hesitate to come back with more questions. This thread should have LOTS of questions. Rick - Haha, very true. I wouldn't go so far as to say nobody is pulling their weight. Our current Event and Raid Leaders are pretty active, I think it's just the lack of variety in the events and such makes things far to mundane to actually pay attention to. You are very right about the stubborn thing though. There is so much stuff going on in the clan right now, and really there hasn't been any post about what's being done to fix it, or if it's something that can't really be fixed, then dealt with. Leaders ALWAYS need help. Leaders have advisers, let us help you and be them for you. *Note: If anyone was thinking we'd get rid of the tertiaries with this new format, rest assured we wouldn't. The Event Leader Council position would be more of Coordinators. They'd be the ones to make certain events, such as ToG weekly. Our current Event Leaders would be the ones to carry things out. Likewise with Raid Leaders, except probably in Full-Out Wars the Warlords would be our first fall-in leader. Jess - We currently have a General Council made up of these people: Abs - he would fit in the General Council Member slot Dale - he sould be more of the Warlord Theevildead2 - definitely a Mediator Where's our Event representation. I honestly believe that because we've got not strong focus on Events and skills in the Council, it's having a HUGE ripple effect through the clan. You're probably thinking about Raid Leaders, and our current Event Leaders. What I'm saying is have someone like them each have representation in the Council. Have people who are basically here specifically here to skill, fight or even just here for the community each have representation in the Council. Then the two in-game aspects would have tertiaries below them to actually carry out what's being done. Should we really leave it up to our Raid Leaders to have to devise plans for better turn-outs and stuff? If they had an idea, I'd propose they send the idea to their respective head and then let them be the ones to take the heat for it, because the Raid Leaders will need the respect of the rest of the clan in order to be efficient. Sam - I know eight members it a big Council. I totally understand what you're saying. More than anything, I created the whole idea of sections within the Council to emphasize that we need representation from all the main bodies that make up the clan, those being: - Community People - Non-PvP Event goers - PvP Event goers Represent all of them, and then have the Mediators to just make sure a whole bunch of stuff doesn't happen. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: September 30, 2008 08:35 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Robertw56 Group: Guest Posts: 1908 Member No.: 15 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 118 |
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Posted: September 30, 2008 09:47 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | Just an FYI, I broke my earlier post into paragraphs so it's actually legible now. 
I just think that breaking everything up like this will cause considerably more confusion than order. Like, if a general council member wants to organize something, he'll have to clear it with the warlords and the event coordinators to make sure the time-slot is open and it doesn't conflict. While now, all he'd have to do (since all our council are male right now ... sexism! lol) would be to mention it in one of the council forums and then go ahead and do it since they're all on the same page working on the same things. Giving different council members different things to FOCUS on would be interesting, if they're willing, but I don't think it should be in their actual job description saying "this council member does this and this council member does that." The whole idea of the council is to have them working together on the issues which are confronting the clan and if you divide them into subgroups it'll destroy their ability to function as a unit. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: October 1, 2008 02:09 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 |
Right, that's what I meant. I used the idea of subgroups to make the idea a little clearer. What I guess I'm really getting at equal representation of the various parts of the clan. Maybe the idea of subgroups was a little to strong. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: October 1, 2008 08:55 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 | Not sure how all that would work. But really if one of my friends see me post something that could go all wrong on the forum (flame party), I would hope they would pm me and say "Go Edit". I have done this with friends and usually they appreciate that I cared. Being a family means relying on each other to moderate between each other. There are some really good people around to help with this. I'm always open to talk to and help with any issues whatever they may be. I've seen Rick help many people too. You might be surprised at who are good listeners and mediators. I'm not sure how a position on council would work for this. Maybe more like a event leader type positon in decision making but would need to sit in on council meetings with a voice and not a vote. Really would not want the mediator to have council powers. Primary Leader position is really important as it is the face of WG in the clan world. Who chooses this position? I would hope the elected council and founders have the say on this one. --------------------  Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~  | ||||
Posted: October 2, 2008 11:24 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Abs Group: Emeritus Posts: 2071 Member No.: 4 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 97 | To be honest, I don't fully agree with the ideas, some of them are good, but I don't really like the idea of having a title with each Council. It's good to have a job description and all, but I think it's better to just have "General Council" who get stuck into everything. But yeah, we major in different areas, as you stated there. Me & Evil probably aren't that experienced in the warring side of the clan, where Dale & Rob is but for example, I have always overlooked the IRC, always answering pm's when pm'd, the same with Evil. Having Job descriptions and titles seem to me as limiting a Council's function. It's very fancy and all and shows that we have a powerful staff, but the Council shall always be a small team of 4-6 members. If I was giving the title of just "General Council", It probably won't change anything, because I'll slip into a lot of the "Mediator" tasks you state there. We already do a lot of the things you stated, it's just that we don't give ourselves Job Descriptions/titles as much. ~Abs --------------------  "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Wg Council & Secondary Leader - 21/10/07 to 24/12/08 Msn: [email protected] | ||||
A new Form of the Council