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"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship |
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Posted: October 16, 2008 03:40 pm  | |||||||||
      IRC Nickname: Samurai-JM Group: Emeritus Posts: 3204 Member No.: 117 Joined: January 11, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8    | Drama, drama, drama. What are we the Brady Bunch? STFU NOOBS. Let's face it guys. People enjoy different things than others. There are LOADS of things you can do in this game, and we happen to encompass them all, but as long as they are all in one spot and somewhat expected to do it all(by each other, not the leadership), you are going to have conflicts. Here's a plan based on my experience of seeing this clan move through the years, yes, it includes bringing back sectors. I've been in this clan for going on 4 years now, and I personally see the days when we had sectors as the peak of our strength and community focus. Back in the day we had 4 major sectors: Fighting. - went to raids and miniwars to strengthen our clan image. Skilling. - went to skilling events and helps generate gold/items. Combined. - went to all major events on both sides. Community. - people like myself, emeritus and non-rs players. The fighting sector did raids and combat training regularly, while the skilling sector did skilling events and made supplies. Both sides made money for itself and the other side, and everyone helped each other through their own capabilities. Combined people were those who enjoyed doing it all, and freely went to both the important raids, and the major skilling events. EVERYONE. WENT. TO. WARS. REGARDLESS. Even community members went to wars, even when they didn't fully play Runescape! We understood that this was important, and it still is today. You don't have to go to every single fight that we embark on, but the WARS are important. Remember the days of MAX OPTS going to nearly every war we had? It wasn't only the warmongers in those piles, it was EVERYONE. Anyway, the sectors didn't hate each other, they didn't try to prove the others wrong, in fact they felt inclined to work together, although competitively, to strengthen the entire clan. People weren't divided, but they were classified by the types of things they enjoyed doing so it was clear to everyone. People respected their differences and agreed to disagree, and it was a happy time because people were allowed to pursue their own goals in the game. I feel we should get back to this concept, as it wouldn't weaken us at all, but it would definitely help to eliminate some, if not all of this drama that has plagued us ever since they were destroyed. Now I realize we aren't exactly as big as we were back in the day with our 300+ memberlists and all, but as long as we still band together for the major, important wars, we should be alright in doing this and everyone will get to follow their own path the rest of the time. Now I'm no tactical specialist, and I don't really know how these clans work, but common sense and experience is telling me that this is the way to go, or else these problems we are seeing will never go away. tl;dr, Bring back sectors, agree to disagree on your interests, everyone goes to major wars, do what you want the rest of the time. Thoughts? -------------------- -=}¤- Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici -¤{=-  W I N N I N G | ||||||||
Posted: October 16, 2008 03:47 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Flippie||Afk Group: Clan Friend Posts: 1708 Member No.: 55 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 0 | agh, another topic about this retarded discussion.. -------------------- http://www.myspace.com/ZitherBand Support my Friends!  | ||||||||
Posted: October 16, 2008 03:49 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Samurai-JM Group: Emeritus Posts: 3204 Member No.: 117 Joined: January 11, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 |
Problems that need solving do not require more eye rolling to solve them sir. They need to be solved, and consolidated in a place that allowed that to be done. Might as well bring it all out in the open once and for all am I right? -------------------- -=}¤- Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici -¤{=- W I N N I N G | ||||||||
Posted: October 16, 2008 05:09 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Cory|Melchior Group: Ex-Member Posts: 240 Member No.: 527 Joined: April 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 5 | Agreed. 100% I don't remember squabbles back then. -------------------- Kingdom of Edgeville  | ||||||||
Posted: October 16, 2008 06:08 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Zlat Group: Clan Friend Posts: 2781 Member No.: 9 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 60 |
Yup, you try saying that to skill sector / community sector now and you'll end up with plenty of rants. That's the diffrence between old wg and new wg. --------------------   | ||||||||
Posted: October 16, 2008 07:19 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Yingy Group: Clan Friend Posts: 2205 Member No.: 27 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 21 | I agree with you 100% Sam. All my posts were shunned, hopefully your's will not. -------------------- Friend's Forver The Long Road Ahead - 91/99 Prayer   | ||||||||
Posted: October 16, 2008 09:20 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | I liked the sectors immensely, but until now I'd thought pretty much everyone else thought they didn't work so I kept my trap shut.  After reading this I went back and looked at some old posts; there's a few things I think we should be looking into if we're seriously going to bring this discussion up again.  How the sectors would be controlled in relation to the council. If I remember right, last time the council was divided among the sectors (not intentionally but that's how it played out), so instead of simply dividing the member base we fractionalized the entire clan and caused some serious problems because of it. We'd have to be more careful to keep a centralized council. How the extra work will be handled. We were running like 4-6 different member lists to keep track of everyone, and each sector had their own events to boot. To make sectors work I think we'd have to involve more members to keep the leadership free to work on more necessary stuff (this is already immensely helped by the event leaders, which I don't believe we had last time). Event Attendance. Something I remember vividly from the sectors is the separate events. Skillers couldn't attend PKRIs and Raids without agreeing to be REQUIRED to attend a given number of them a month (aka, agreeing to meet the attendance requirements of BOTH sectors instead of just one). I'd prefer it if there wasn't any similar attendance restrictions. I'm convinced this is an excellent topic for WG to pursue, but I got vetoed last time so w/e.  // edit // I still think we should have a sector for skillers, and two additional sectors for those who are interested primarily in combat-based events (one for lower levels and one for the higher-ups). Anyone can attend any event; the skill sector has their events and the two fighting sectors have JOINT EVENTS except for a few which would be unique to the higher-level sector (there was immense frustration last time from higher levels who wanted a higher cut-off point for combat, this way anyone can attend the usual PKRIs and w/e but the higher levels can also have a few unique events to keep them busy). Just a thought, figured I'd remention it from a year ago. --------------------  | ||||||||
Posted: October 16, 2008 10:59 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Sithofwookie Group: Ex-Member Posts: 2842 Member No.: 815 Joined: June 11, 2008 Total Events Attended: 48 | I think what Wayne said is pretty much the best thing to do right now or at least to try it. --------------------  | ||||||||
Posted: October 16, 2008 11:03 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Rage|Mike Group: Clan Friend Posts: 1948 Member No.: 1238 Joined: July 29, 2008 Total Events Attended: 132 | Two combat memberlist would weaken us severly, we're 102-126 anyways, we shouldn't need to seperate. I don't know about the sectors, wasn't here, but I heard they caused lots of problems. --------------------  MSN: [email protected] IRC: Rage|Mike at SwiftIRC and SeersIRC Drop me a comment, click to view my RSC profile! Proud to be ex-Wilderness Guardian. | ||||||||
Posted: October 16, 2008 11:16 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Samurai-JM Group: Emeritus Posts: 3204 Member No.: 117 Joined: January 11, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 |
No no no read what I posted, EVERYONE WARS, so it doesn't weaken us at all. Combined people are still able to attend anything on both sides, so there is no problem with us being a weaker clan, it just won't happen. -------------------- -=}¤- Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici -¤{=- W I N N I N G | ||||||||
Posted: October 16, 2008 11:57 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 |
And we'd also have a combined memberlist to reference for wars, so we'll still look just as good. This would effect the number of people required to participate in Raids/PKRIs but I don't think making people show up who generally would rather not be there actually worth it in the long run to begin with. -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: October 17, 2008 12:11 am | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Rage|Mike Group: Clan Friend Posts: 1948 Member No.: 1238 Joined: July 29, 2008 Total Events Attended: 132 |
I was replying to what Wayne said not the topic itself, forgot to quote, mi bad
We have around 80 members now, suppose 50% are warrers and 50% are skillers. If we divide the warrers into two memberlists, we'll have WAYY too many low options to take on any decent clan. If a low level'd person IS in on the warring memberlist, he'll be trained on how to avoid KO's obviously, so he SHOULD be able to participate. -------------------- MSN: [email protected] IRC: Rage|Mike at SwiftIRC and SeersIRC Drop me a comment, click to view my RSC profile! Proud to be ex-Wilderness Guardian. | ||||||||
Posted: October 17, 2008 12:29 am | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Wayne|Eregion2 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3087 Member No.: 156 Joined: January 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 | ... which doesn't change anything if that person hates Raids/PKRIs and wouldn't show up for them anyway. Skill sector members COULD attend Raids/PKRIs but it would not be emphasized; everyone who was available from both sectors would be expected to show up to wars. -------------------- | ||||||||
Posted: October 17, 2008 12:32 am | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Samurai-JM Group: Emeritus Posts: 3204 Member No.: 117 Joined: January 11, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 |
EVERYONE WARS, ALL 80 PEOPLE STILL WAR, WE WON'T BE WEAKENED IN NUMBERS! READ THE POST!  -------------------- -=}¤- Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici -¤{=- W I N N I N G | ||||||||
Posted: October 17, 2008 12:49 am | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Kiwi011 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3052 Member No.: 40 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 21 | It divides the clan....NO ty. --------------------  | ||||||||
Posted: October 17, 2008 04:35 am | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 | Maybe one of the problems of the sectors was the requirements to get in. Level 90 even in a skills clan should have about 1600 total lvl then lvl 100s around 1700. I probably would have had these if I had not trained combat, but really if you are going for sectors the skillers standards need to be set a bit high. This allows you to get more serious and mature players. Everyone no matter what could still be lvl 100 f2p combat. This way as you recruit you have a chance to get the skiller who may enjoy being on both lists or the war person who enjoys skilling. I'm undecided about the sectors. If it is not done correctly, it could hurt the clan. --------------------  Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~  | ||||||||
Posted: October 17, 2008 05:08 am | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: megajayson Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 9246 Member No.: 423 Joined: April 4, 2008 Total Events Attended: 216 | if we bring back sectors, and everyone still has to go to wars, then what is the difference from now? ill tell you, you seperate the clan from being one, what is the point. keep it as it is and just fix this problem with war vs skills --------------------  This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill Fifteen percent concentrated power of will Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain And a hundred percent reason to remember the name! 7th Highest Overall for Wars Attended. | ||||||||
Posted: October 17, 2008 09:16 am | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 | I like the idea. To people who are saying it'll just be the same, or we'll look weaker, read the initial post in its entirety. We have two (primary) sectors in the clan: 1. Fighting 2. Skills Each sector will basically run like it does now, that being: 1. Fighting sector will do raids, war training, CWA, BH and the like 2. Skills will do things like the Farming Runs, Fishing events Each member will belong to one or both of the sectors. What this means is that a member of the Fighting sector has obligations ONLY to the fighting events, and members of the Skills sector have obligations to ONLY the skills events. What this eliminates is the "You should have shown up to the raid to support the clan," type of drama that skillers generally receive when they decide to skill. Skillers will be allowed to do what they want, when they want and not be criticized for it and still be a well respected member of the clan. They won't be obligated to go to any pop-up PKRIs because that isn't what they're here for, while as it is now, it's like everyone is supposed to be a "member" of both sectors (if you want to think of it that way). What would also be allowed is for members of each sector to attend events from the other sector if they feel like doing so, and NO MEMBER WOULD BE MET WITH HOSTILITY IF THIS HAPPENED! So, basically if a member of the skills sector just recently got his Woodcutting level to 98 and decided to take a break and found out a raid was about to start, he could gear up and go with the fighters. Likewise, if there aren't any fighting events going on and there is a farming run about to start, he could go with the skillers and check his patches. The clan wouldn't be weakened in terms of wars because ALL MEMBERS OF THE CLAN would be OBLIGATED to go to the war, this would be something ALL MEMBERS agreed to. So if we have 80 members, and 50% are in one sector and the rest are in the other, 100% will be at the wars, because 100% are WG. We'd have one member list and a separate warring list (name is misleading because ALL MEMBERS would go to wars) just for statistical purposes (thinking of Brandon's idea here). I think if implemented properly this could actually solve things around here. --------------------   | ||||||||
Posted: October 17, 2008 01:41 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Cory|Melchior Group: Ex-Member Posts: 240 Member No.: 527 Joined: April 25, 2008 Total Events Attended: 5 |
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Posted: October 17, 2008 03:03 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Samurai-JM Group: Emeritus Posts: 3204 Member No.: 117 Joined: January 11, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 |
No difference. It's just to shut people up about skillers not going to warring events and visa versa. It's still one clan, everyone still does the main wars, but otherwise you only need to do what you want. And yes, Colonel is still genius.  -------------------- -=}¤- Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici -¤{=- W I N N I N G | ||||||||
Posted: October 17, 2008 05:56 pm | |||||||||
 IRC Nickname: Gusmighster Group: Emeritus Posts: 1360 Member No.: 46 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67 | Colonel's rank should be 'Epic Poster' --------------------  | ||||||||
Posted: October 17, 2008 08:36 pm | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 | Have we heard any of council's opinion on this? Last I remember Elias was very against the idea of sectors. I could be wrong, but I don't know if that has changed. Members can suggest, but council still has the power to say "no". -------------------- Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~ | ||||||||
Posted: October 18, 2008 03:31 am | |||||||||
| IRC Nickname: Samurai-JM Group: Emeritus Posts: 3204 Member No.: 117 Joined: January 11, 2008 Total Events Attended: 8 |
Who's Elias? I know Elias was against sectors after we got rid of them, but I personally think our clan was best when we had them. It was amazing to see everyone working together, even though they all did their own things. -------------------- -=}¤- Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici -¤{=- W I N N I N G | ||||||||
Wars, Skills, Community, Everything.