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"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship |
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Posted: February 27, 2008 05:43 am  | |||
      IRC Nickname: Snowzak Group: Emeritus Posts: 1193 Member No.: 5 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67    | I know I wasn't the most active this last month, but that's another story. ANYWAY. -------------- Disclaimer: Everything said in this topic are only suggestions to try to poke your mind into suggesting what you'd like/think is appropriate We're going to be starting WG from a new structure, clean and fresh. With this, is going to come a merge in the memberlists, to end up with one unique and only memberlist: The Wilderness Guardians. Which means we're going to have to seperate actives from inactives. Now to do this, we have a few things to consider (in total disorder, as they came to mind): 1-What does "Active" mean? 2-How will inactivity be punished? 3-How far can an inactivity topic serve as an excuse? 4-Who gets Emeritus? 5-How will activity be measured and managed? 6-How will we get our unique Wilderness Guardians memberlist after the restructuration? 1-What does "Active" mean? It's been decided that all events in the future WildGuard will count 1 attendance point, regardless of the nature of the event. We have a few options: -Count events per week -Count events per month -Count events and average out the attendance each time we sweep Now I'd think per month would be the best. Since we're planning one full-out official war per month, it'd be logical to sweep the memberlist once a month. Per week is too much of a hassle to manage. Also, if somebody is active one week and not the other, it gives him/her a chance. The last solution would mean that activity sweeps are performed at random times... it'd be best to stick to a regular schedule (i.e. once per month). Then, we've got to figure out how many events per month is reasonable. I'm thinking 4 events as a strict minimum (depending on the punishment). 2-How will inactivity be punished? Which brings us to punishments. Punishments and the amount of required events go hand in hand: if our minimum events limit is very low (around 4 events per month) then the punishment would be radical (kicking), if our minimum events is very demanding (say 6-8 per month) then we could function with a strike system (1 chance, 2, 3 and you're out). We could also combine the two... fix a minimum of four events per month and for example: -3 events, you two other chances -2 events, you have one other chance -1 or less, you're kicked 3-How far can an inactivity topic serve as an excuse? Now since we won't have anymore Community Sector but only an "Emeritus" status for PERMANENT retirees of RuneScape, we need to sort the Inactivity Topic issue. We need to set a limit amount of time which is acceptable for inactivity... Opinions? I think two months is suitable: -Vacations rarely exceed two months -Exams & revisions if above two months start being permanent inactivity :s I don't know really. 4-Who gets Emeritus? In the new system that we'll adopt from Monday on, Higher Guardians and above that retire will be given Emeritus status. However, amongs the inactives that we remove from our ML from Monday on, we need to decide who will be considered as an ExMember and who will be Emeritus. Since the system change and the activity sweep will come at the same time, it's quite complex to figure out what's the right solution. I'm thinking it should be decided on a case to case basis, depending on the time the person has been with WG and how active, devoted he/she has been. Suggestions? 5-How will activity be measured and managed? Ideally, the best would be for a good programmer to create a webpage that the staff could update easily, which would reorder itself automatically with a click. Maybe Robbie can figure that out. Anyway, until then I guess we're back to lists under the form of forum posts, which is messy. My opinion is that each member should check himself if he's been added to such and such event attendance: it should be his responsability, and not the one of the Attendance Updaters (except if the host forgot to take attendance of course). My conception of it would be the main list of all time, a closed topic with only names and numbers, plus a monthly list containing the events and all the attendance data that'd be deleted after a month (the data, not the month lists). Any suggestions, opinions? 6-How will we get our unique Wilderness Guardians memberlist after the restructuration? The toughest point... I'm thinking we could have, over a month, events neatly disposed so that everybody can attend (say two per timezone and per week?). Those who didn't attend any of the events would be pruned off the list, then if there remains any inactives they'll be removed with the monthly sweeps... What do you guys think? ------------ 6:44 am, signing out  --------------------  London RL Meeting attendee - Paris RL meeting attendee Joined WG in October 2005 - Original DG - Ex-Raid Leader Proud Council Member from October 21st 2007 to May 19th 2008 | ||
Posted: February 27, 2008 07:22 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129 | A bit complex. Take attendance, then work on inactives case by case? This may be a bit on the anal side of things. Do we need a strict system or can we just use logic as both of us wanted? --------------------  | ||
Posted: February 27, 2008 08:08 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Tricksy Group: Emeritus Posts: 645 Member No.: 77 Joined: January 1, 2008 Total Events Attended: 18 | I think we just need to wait for Jagex to finish applying some updates that will affect the clan world, THEN do something about inativity. --------------------  Edwarrior317 - 102 Combat - Perm Banned Wilderness Guardian Moderator: 19th April - 3rd December, 2007 | ||
Posted: February 27, 2008 08:16 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Karlfischer Group: Ex-Member Posts: 664 Member No.: 124 Joined: January 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 55 | At first glance it looks pretty fair to me, nice job Snow. The hybrid strike/kick system seems like a good idea, but it might get a bit cumbersome keeping track of strikes and such. We need more carrots though...badges for attending a certain amount of events, have events attended factor into the ranking system, have a separate member of the month based on event attendance? --------------------   | ||
Posted: February 27, 2008 08:19 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Kiwi011 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3052 Member No.: 40 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 21 | Ok, ive been here forever, even before I went community and I'm still not higher....whats that make of me....I was extremey active way back before my acc was banned and feel like I should be given emeritus.... I like being part of wg and talking on the forums and giving my opinion (for what its worth). So yea what of me.....I'm pretty sure I'm the only person that is in this situation also...so yea....do i just get kicked out... --------------------  | ||
Posted: February 27, 2008 08:36 am | |||
| IRC Nickname: Snowzak Group: Emeritus Posts: 1193 Member No.: 5 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67 | Kiwi, all current [C] members are getting Emeritus. -------------------- London RL Meeting attendee - Paris RL meeting attendee Joined WG in October 2005 - Original DG - Ex-Raid Leader Proud Council Member from October 21st 2007 to May 19th 2008 | ||
Posted: February 27, 2008 08:36 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: karel Group: Emeritus Posts: 1021 Member No.: 57 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 89 | For the memberlist, i'm thinking we put all members registered on these forums on first, then do activity sweeps as usual and modify the changes accordingly -------------------- Sig? | ||
Posted: February 27, 2008 10:18 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Dalejamesw Group: Banned Posts: -1280 Member No.: 14 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 222 | Good idea, i have already got a list of inactives from the Skills Sector -------------------- | ||
Posted: February 27, 2008 10:35 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Pazenon Group: Emeritus Posts: 1477 Member No.: 33 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 79 | I agree with you that events should be looked at in activity on a monthly basis rather than a weekly or average basis. A kick from the clan when a person doesn't attend 4 events in a month isn't... fair. You should look at all timezones of current WG members, and take all the members' circumanstances into consideration. Strikes are better in my opinion. Inactivity topics explain themselves, you can't really put time limits for a person to be inactive; everyone has his own issues... Just let his inactivity topic explain itself, then the responsible people should take the required measures. I totally agree on your idea about who gets Emeritus. Activity, past achievements and devotion should all count. All current community members should get Emeritus though. About how activity will be managed, I like your idea about topics that save them to make them viewable for people who take the actions towards inactive members. Finally, regarding our memberlist and how you will do the neccasary changes to it, my idea would not only be viewing the member's event attendance, but also his forums activity, IRC activity, log in frequency and so on. -------------------- | ||
Posted: February 27, 2008 11:25 am | |||
| IRC Nickname: Snowzak Group: Emeritus Posts: 1193 Member No.: 5 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67 | You make very good points Paz - a member's activity and devotion used to be measured in amount of rune sets sacrificed, but now that nobody looses anything, online time contributed to the clan overall should count as activity too. I like your way of thinking about different issues and how they should be solved through logic and common sense rather than strict guidelines - you'll go far  -------------------- London RL Meeting attendee - Paris RL meeting attendee Joined WG in October 2005 - Original DG - Ex-Raid Leader Proud Council Member from October 21st 2007 to May 19th 2008 | ||
Posted: February 27, 2008 11:38 am | |||
| IRC Nickname: Pazenon Group: Emeritus Posts: 1477 Member No.: 33 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 79 | Thanks for the topic -------------------- | ||
Posted: February 27, 2008 05:40 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Tnuac Group: Emeritus Posts: 1806 Member No.: 51 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 58 | The 2 ways to get attendance are: 1) Make the event appealing and fun in the first place. 2) Chase up those who don't attend. -------------------- ~Aetas: carpe diem quam minimum credula postero~ "Seize the day and place no trust in tomorrow"  | ||
Posted: February 28, 2008 06:32 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Mr Glennfase Group: Emeritus Posts: 3064 Member No.: 39 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 220 | I'm going to make 1-3 events a weekend once i have decent internet. In the 2 weeks i've had raid leader i've done a bad job in making events. Sorry guys. I'll make it all up to you once this internet is fixed for good. -------------------- That's Mr. Glennfase to you. Ex-Warlord/Council  | ||
Posted: February 28, 2008 11:08 am | |||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Guests Posts: Member No.: 0 Joined: January 1, 1970 Total Events Attended: 1 | This system may be a bit complex and its only a suggestion. But each member writes down a list of times when they can attend events, and then at the end of each month the total number of events they could have attended is totaled. Then depending on this a number is decided on the reasonable number of events. This way, it wouldnt discriminate against very busy people IRL or against those with awkward timezones. -------------------- | ||
Posted: February 28, 2008 01:59 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Snowzak Group: Emeritus Posts: 1193 Member No.: 5 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67 | Thing is, people that are very busy IRL also translates in "inactive people". -------------------- London RL Meeting attendee - Paris RL meeting attendee Joined WG in October 2005 - Original DG - Ex-Raid Leader Proud Council Member from October 21st 2007 to May 19th 2008 | ||
Posted: February 28, 2008 02:04 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Dnovelta Group: Emeritus Posts: 2750 Member No.: 130 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 137 | Will posting frequency also be taken into account when determining inactivity? I generally post only when I really have something to say. However, when I'm online and there is an event, I always drop what I'm doing and go to the event. How will that work? --------------------   | ||
Posted: February 28, 2008 06:02 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Spicy63 Group: Emeritus Posts: 785 Member No.: 50 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 0 | 1- So we're going back to Activity Requirments, the last Two times these were instates I do't remember them going so well. Though I geuss it's the only way to do it. Will the event Requirment be removed after Moral is up and people will passivly start attending events? 2- The strike system seems to complicated to keep organized well. It might have to go by a 'Person-by-Person' instance. There are other forms of punishment, less privlages and such...Just can't seem to think of any at the moment. 3- As Pazenon said, the member will not how long the Inactivity will be and if excessivly inactive after that time period...the person can be delt with personally. 4- Time being the dominent factor will definetly effect who will get the Emeritus Rank. Though, Ranks I don't think are personally best to decide by, some Members stay in the background and don't get aknowledged for there work. I tihnk it should also be Person-by-Person system. Will Emeritus be notified of any other Events other than Official Wars? Eh, got to get back to class. I'll finish when I get home. --------------------  | ||
Posted: February 28, 2008 11:51 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Snowzak Group: Emeritus Posts: 1193 Member No.: 5 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67 | Towards Spicy's post: 1 - To keep an active clan, I think we'll keep the activity requirements, but follow them a bit laxily, in a case to case basis. What I mean is that people deemed inactive will be removed, but not necessarily at one event close. The requirements that'll be set will mostly be used in the first months, then we'll see. Emeritus will in theory not participate in any Clan versus Clan events. -------------------- London RL Meeting attendee - Paris RL meeting attendee Joined WG in October 2005 - Original DG - Ex-Raid Leader Proud Council Member from October 21st 2007 to May 19th 2008 | ||
Posted: February 29, 2008 06:24 am | |||
| IRC Nickname: Tttkaab|Brandon Group: Ex-Member Posts: 622 Member No.: 123 Joined: January 12, 2008 Total Events Attended: 53 | Emeritus for me  I'll add more when I have time.Brandon -------------------- Ex-Wilderness Leader of WG. I'll always be here for the people that need me. RS Accounts: Sadcon1, Tttkaab & T Dwag | ||
Posted: February 29, 2008 07:25 am | |||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Banned Posts: 2447 Member No.: 114 Joined: January 8, 2008 Total Events Attended: 149 | Emeritus VS Ex-Mem... Those who are Community and do post, or come on IRC are definitely (imo) the ones that should get Emeritus, even if they haven't gone past Guardian. There are some who are Community who haven't even realized that we moved forums. My thought is give them another 1-3 months, and if they haven't registered here, change them to Ex-Member. If they can't even be bothered to register on forums, then why should they have the privilege? The information that we were switching/have switched has been out for quite some time. With the attendance... Unless we have a database that is easy to update, and all tertiaries have access to it, it's going to be a little more difficult. Most of it will have to be looked at on a case by case (as has been said). The next best thing I can think of right now is to have a yahoo groups set up, and keep a copy of a Microsoft Excel file uploaded and updated on it. That's something that Fast Laws Inc of 99 did... We used Yahoo Messenger and conferencing rather than IRC. I'll think more on that... if there are ways to make it possible or easier... ~Wind -------------------- | ||
Posted: February 29, 2008 08:59 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Spicy63 Group: Emeritus Posts: 785 Member No.: 50 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 0 |
l current Community Members will be getting Emeritus anyway. After all these new updates are instated into WG is when some will go Ex-Member and some will go Emeritus. -------------------- | ||
Activity: Suggestions?