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"You are a Wilderness Guardian. That northern wasteland; that land of blood, desolation and death is your dominion. Tonight we are going home." ~His Lordship |
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Posted: February 10, 2009 08:59 am  | |||||
      IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129    | Several members have noted that the leaders seem a little bit cut off from the members. I thought about it a little and it's true. What happened was that the leaders felt abused. They were copping more shit than usual. Mugger especially. Here they were working for you and then getting flamed. It is really painful. Trust me. Mugger took a stance on that and became a quick target. The other leaders who observed this, or were targeted themselves, retreated. Thanks to the one or two members who raised this point with me. Mugger was probably the hardest hit by all of this. You can see he's not as lighthearted as he was a few weeks ago. You guys need to give him a break. Randy is changed from acting as primary leader too. Please guys, we need respect. Posts about our incompetence and such are so demoralizing. I would compare it to getting stabbed in the back by your child. I encourage the tertiaries and council to give it another go. Open yourselves up to communication with the members. And members, please don't repeat history. Be kind to the leaders. We are here to help. And also, tertiaries and council, I don't want you yelling at members who get KO'd. This is another issue that was raised. We are not VR. I think this was a pretty good lesson. We can all see now what happens when leaders turn away, and members abuse. What's needed now more than anything is a new slate. Reconciliation.  Please, I don't want any more animosity. If you think a leader is being a tyrant, you have to consider if you were part of the cause. And leaders, cutting off friendly communication with people is not the way to go about it. Its painful to lead, you figured that much out, but you can't earn better respect by ignoring what the members are saying. --------------------  | ||||
Posted: February 10, 2009 09:02 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: megajayson Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 9246 Member No.: 423 Joined: April 4, 2008 Total Events Attended: 216 | bout time someone said it --------------------  This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill Fifteen percent concentrated power of will Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain And a hundred percent reason to remember the name! 7th Highest Overall for Wars Attended. | ||||
Posted: February 10, 2009 09:11 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: ``Aaron Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1055 Member No.: 149 Joined: January 21, 2008 Total Events Attended: 34 | Ive actually taken no stance on this, which is just where I like it. The leaders knew the criticism they would receive when they applied for the job. Now don't take that the wrong way or anything, I think the current admin + tertiaries have done an outstanding job, Ive even given some of them thanks in Pm. But they knew they would receive criticism, you can't just expect that to go away. Mugger: You had a right to express your endorsement of your council pick even if I dissagreed with it. I had no complaints when you did either. You're a great warlord. There was only a few members who criticized Mugger. Please don't stereotype us all into that category. --------------------    | ||||
Posted: February 10, 2009 09:15 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129 | That was only one incident School Boy. I've seen Mugger called out on at least 6 or 7 things since I got back from my vacation. He's getting bullied actually. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: February 10, 2009 09:49 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: ``Aaron Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1055 Member No.: 149 Joined: January 21, 2008 Total Events Attended: 34 |
Still, I believe the Majority of the clan isn't against Mugger. Mugger is awesome @ what he does. But the people that are giving him nonstop shit, and I stress nonstop, really need to learn to respect the office. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: February 10, 2009 10:03 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Kwaichi Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1827 Member No.: 65 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 119 | Leaders are for me like my older brother, who is always arnoud ready to help me, if some problem occured. I appraciate everything what they are doing. Thank you  --------------------  | ||||
Posted: February 10, 2009 11:05 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Rage|Mike Group: Clan Friend Posts: 1948 Member No.: 1238 Joined: July 29, 2008 Total Events Attended: 132 | Well said. --------------------  MSN: [email protected] IRC: Rage|Mike at SwiftIRC and SeersIRC Drop me a comment, click to view my RSC profile! Proud to be ex-Wilderness Guardian.  | ||||
Posted: February 10, 2009 02:52 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 7306 Member No.: 47 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 343 | Respect is earned, the title is only the first step. One step and you can fall, Clinton comes to mind... -------------------- July 5, 2007 - June 27, 2011 | ||||
Posted: February 10, 2009 03:27 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: ^Dave^ Group: Ex-Member Posts: 735 Member No.: 1616 Joined: January 4, 2009 Total Events Attended: 23 | Mugger is a good warlord but also a bish! (kidding mugggger) Joe = NH --------------------   | ||||
Posted: February 10, 2009 04:16 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Jesseh Group: Guest Posts: 2670 Member No.: 297 Joined: March 8, 2008 Total Events Attended: 222 | Yeah i've spoken with Mugger, it's not nice. I don't really feel too victimised myself, so i'll just try and talk more. Well said Elias. --------------------   17/6/08--> 12/9/08--> 29/11/08--> 5/1/09--> 2/3/09(Left)--> 19/7/09(Rejoin)--> 2/8/09
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Posted: February 10, 2009 05:32 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Brian|30 Group: Ex-Member Posts: 565 Member No.: 1547 Joined: December 13, 2008 Total Events Attended: 75 | I don't think it's right to just say, stop bugging council when a regular member wants a change or finds something that isn't right and wants to change it. It's their job to fix the clan and make members happy, whether they feel pressured by it or not. There IS a difference between suggesting and yelling at a leader. I'm not endorsing being a jackass to them, but we shouldn't get mad at members that try to suggest things to better the clan. -------------------- Dragon Claws Drops: 1 2 Dragonic Visage Drops: 1 Ruined Dragon Drops: 1 Abyssal Whip Drops: 1 2 | ||||
Posted: February 10, 2009 06:27 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Gorgemaster Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 9840 Member No.: 3 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 540 | Well done for coping and not resigning Council, that in itself required strength, so well done. +1 to everything Elias said, I haven't experienced any council bashing... yet... but I experienced my fair share as a tertiary  Lol lol you don't have to worry about me shouting at you for getting ko'ed, I get ko'ed too --------------------    | ||||
Posted: February 10, 2009 07:30 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Billy|Gilli Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1545 Member No.: 1451 Joined: November 9, 2008 Total Events Attended: 91 | Couldnt agree more, it was only a couple of days ago that i noticed that counld etc rarely posted on alot of topics, clearly they dont mean to, but its just certain things. I think the treatment has been harsh, however i admittedly have been selfish by not confronting the 'bullies' to stop myself from getting into an arguement, unfortunately i dont back down, so when i start i dont stop. So mayby it was for the best. However i hope the few unthoughtful people, they know who they are, will back off and let the council and leadership do there rightful jobs, instead of resulving petty fights. --------------------    | ||||
Posted: February 10, 2009 07:36 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Indivi2you Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 5361 Member No.: 43 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 623 |
When leaders actually do complain, trust me it's not on a bad note. You learn to cope with things, but only tell others about it when it goes over the edge. But yeah, good post Elias. -------------------- The First, The Last, and the Only ~FLO Never say never, because limits, like fears, are often just an illusion. ~Michael Jordan      | ||||
Posted: February 10, 2009 07:39 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Pyro Blade26 Group: Ex-Member Posts: 782 Member No.: 84 Joined: January 1, 2008 Total Events Attended: 64 | /me is a whiny bitch and and doesnt like leaders ='( honestly people need to grow up. its a fucking game and everyones just having fun. why the hell are u worried about "corruption" when clearly your punk ass isn't worrying about true corruption in your governments. just play rs and stfu. ^probably earns me a warning level, but its worth it if it puts things in perspective for the people hating on leaders. --------------------     | ||||
Posted: February 10, 2009 08:16 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Colin Group: Ex-Member Posts: 2039 Member No.: 68 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 69 | Respect is earned, not given. --------------------  Proud WG member from January 2006 - Fall 2009 | ||||
Posted: February 10, 2009 09:02 pm | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Joe mamma27 Group: Ex-Member Posts: 106 Member No.: 1589 Joined: December 26, 2008 Total Events Attended: 12 | Yea, I was a leader of a clan for about 2 years. And I know exactly how it feels. I know leaders spend tons of their time to keep the clan running. I'm sure most of you leaders spend at least 2-3 hours a week (most likely more) on the clan instead of playing and enjoying Runescape. All leaders deserve some respect and understanding even if you personally don't always agree with what they're doing. Because, afterall, they're doing it for you. There are better ways of changing things than complaining about or criticising the leaders. You can always suggest or nicely point out a few things you think they're doing wrong privately. That way they won't have to go on the defensive to protect themselves in public. I don't know the leaders of WG all that well but since WG is a great clan I'm sure the leaders will be understanding if you talk about your concearns with them rather than just criticising them. -------------------- | ||||
Posted: February 10, 2009 10:10 pm | |||||
 IRC Nickname: DZ Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 2991 Member No.: 18 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 238 | You don't REALLY know how discouraging it is until you've been there before. -------------------- Now back to the good part! | ||||
Posted: February 11, 2009 12:41 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Starzhine Group: Emeritus Posts: 447 Member No.: 218 Joined: February 9, 2008 Total Events Attended: 64 | Being a leader is a difficult and lonely job. NO council or tertiary leader should be disrespected, disagreed with, sometimes, but disrespected NEVER! However maturity plays an important role in how the members will "disagree" with you. Remember all the council were elevated to your various roles by the members. And to the members you are responsible. The perks always come with a burden., nertz. Mugger, I have observed that you are quick off the line when you decide something needs to be done. And that can be mis-interpreted and result in flaming. The flamers do not understand that your style will get things done. Even if they do not like it, what they forget is that you are just as quick to reverse direction if needed. I respect that a lot. Example, me, when I was demoted because of inactivity, I would have preferred some dialogue with you before it happened, but I realized you had to do what you felt had to be done because of the war. I understood and fortunately I was at a point where I could get active again. See, a little quick off the line. And just as quick to re-instate me. I will always support you so long as you are council. As I will all the council and tertiary leaders.  Point is everyone make nice, respect each other, don't take advantage, don't abuse and care for each other. A little bit of the "golden rule" goes a long way. After all we are clan brothers and sisters. WG  --------------------  WG love forever, Kristy  | ||||
Posted: February 11, 2009 12:49 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: Robertw56 Group: Guest Posts: 1908 Member No.: 15 Joined: December 29, 2007 Total Events Attended: 118 | I know where you're coming from Lordy, but the problem is, members don't know what it is like to be a leader, until they take on any kind of power that includes members bitching at them, they'll find it hard to understand. And about shouting at people getting ko'ed, it shouldn't be so much a shout as a "Please don't get ko'ed guys, concentrate, eyes on your screen, not the tv." --------------------   | ||||
Posted: February 11, 2009 02:44 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: megajayson Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 9246 Member No.: 423 Joined: April 4, 2008 Total Events Attended: 216 |
i think he is well past earning his respect. -------------------- This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill Fifteen percent concentrated power of will Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain And a hundred percent reason to remember the name! 7th Highest Overall for Wars Attended. | ||||
Posted: February 11, 2009 03:02 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: Colin Group: Ex-Member Posts: 2039 Member No.: 68 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 69 |
Who is "he"? Did I name anyone? In any case, that's your opinion. Don't force it on me. -------------------- Proud WG member from January 2006 - Fall 2009 | ||||
Posted: February 11, 2009 03:27 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: DyIan Group: Emeritus Posts: 1205 Member No.: 1638 Joined: January 15, 2009 Total Events Attended: 107 | Awww poor mugger :[. The future is better!! --------------------   | ||||
Posted: February 11, 2009 04:35 am | |||||
 IRC Nickname: rachellove Group: Council Posts: 6955 Member No.: 173 Joined: January 31, 2008 Total Events Attended: 305 | I don't believe anyone wants to exploit Mugger. He is not a bad person. Just because you don't agree with someone about some issue, doesn't mean you don't like them on a personal level. Mugger and I chat about things we disagree with in pm usually. Actually, I find that he got this one issue brought against him, but the event leaders have to hear more against them on an everyday thing. So in my view, the event leaders have been treated more harshly. No one in the clan should feel bullied. --------------------  Thank you Garrett and Dallar. “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.” ~~Colin Powell ~~  | ||||
Posted: February 11, 2009 04:42 am | |||||
| IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129 |
By the time they get the rank, they have already earned it by months of dedication. -------------------- | ||||
Leaders vs Members