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Posted: March 12, 2008 12:43 pm  | |||
    IRC Nickname: Group: Guests Posts: Member No.: 0 Joined: January 1, 1970 Total Events Attended: 1    | I found this on another set of Forums. Fairy linked them, and I thought that WG deserved to have such knowledge, so I rehosted a few things and viola! I cannot take credit, I thank Fairy for showing me it, and Toadkiller D for creating the guide. Everybody, it looks long, but it is QUITE the read! It answers some questions after you get past the beginning (A bit confusing with the ... Ehh you'll see). Quite a read, very useful. Thank you to both of them  Enjoy! ~Dfudd. The Ring of Wealth - no other item in Runescape generates so much controversy, debate and misinformation. The official line is that it "increases your chance at obtaining a rare item by 20%." Pretty simple on the surface, eh? There are thousands of anecdotes that people can tell about the Ring of Wealth not working. Everybody has read posts on forums like the following: "blah blah blah...3 days killing tzhaars with RoW on and no drops, then I took it off and got 2 capes in the next five kills...blah blah blah", probably many times. Yet all the good guides out there keep recommending that you wear it. What gives? The contradiction can be explained by the well documented UN-randomness of Runescape's random number generator. Jagex uses a pseudo random number generator (PSNG). Pseudo-random numbers are not random in the way you might expect. Essentially, PRNGs are algorithms that use mathematical formulae or simply precalculated tables to produce sequences of numbers that appear random. PRNGs are efficient, meaning they can produce many numbers in a short time, and deterministic, meaning that a given sequence of numbers can be reproduced at a later date if the starting point in the sequence is known. Efficiency is a nice characteristic if your application needs many numbers (like Runescape!), and determinism is handy if you need to replay the same sequence of numbers again at a later stage. PRNGs are typically also periodic, which means that the sequence will eventually repeat itself. What makes this even more un-random is that fact they you are sharing the PRNG with everybody else who is playing on your server at the same time. As a result, "streaks" tend to last longer as the common perception that "eventually I will break out of this streak because of the law of averages" is completely misplaced. High number results may keep going to other players on the server while low number results may still be routed to you for quite lengthy periods of time. A take-away lesson from this is that if you finally get a great drop - keep going! Another 1 or 2 may be only a few kills away! Bad luck streak? Jump servers or do something else for a while. (You are never "due" for anything. A PNRG never owes anybody anything! EVER!) The problem with anecdotal evidence is just that. It is anecdotal. It is just one person's experience at a particular point in time while riding the Random Number Generator roller coaster. Everybody else's experiences are not taken into account. For every incident of people complaining about the "Ring of Poverty" not working, there are hundreds of others plugging away with their rings and getting their 20% increase in rune/rare drops. Good news is rarely complained about as loudly as bad news is...its just human nature. Back to the ring! One of the great myths that have risen up about the ring is that it alters the normal drop pattern of a monster. It does not! You need to visualize 2 big wheels (like a double Wheel of Fortune). The first wheel is "spun" for every drop. The small sliver (let's say a 2% chance), gives you a chance for a second spin on the second wheel and a chance for a rare. This is how Jagex coded drop chances for a typical mid level monster that doesn't drop rune and player is not wearing a RoW:  If you get a spin on the second wheel, most likely you will end up with nothing. (Remember all those times you got "absolutely nothing" from a monster that is usually a very good dropper? You may very well have had a spin on the second wheel and just missed a dragon drop!) Now here is the chart when a player is wearing a ring of wealth:  There are two important things to observe from this diagram. The first is that the ROW does NOT effect the "normal" drop rate of a monster. That same 2% chance of spinning on the second wheel is still there. Nothing else has changed. The second thing is to notice that the slice of getting a rare drop on the second wheel has increased slightly (20% increase). So what? You may say. That percent chance is miniscule! You are correct in observing that. But this only holds true for low to mid-level monsters. If anybody has tried to get a Dragon Spear from Hobgoblins, Dragon Medium Helms from Otherworldly Beings, or the legendary Dragon Chainbody from the Dust Devils, a 1 in 8,000 chance is about an accurate description of your chances! No one is going to notice much if your chances increase to a 1 in 6,400 chance. But since Rune item drops are also considered "rare", the Ring of Wealth starts being much more of a valuable tool when you start hitting the higher level monsters that drop rune items. For one thing, the chance for getting a spin on the second wheel is much greater. Now let's look at a chart for say....Black Demons. (Substitute Obby drops for Rune if we are talking about Tz-aars) Here is the normal chart of drops without Row:  Here is the chart with ROW:  Here you can see that the 20% increase generated by the ROW is starting to add up. It adds 20% to each possible dragon item drop, and each possible rune item drop! Extrapolating from this, you can see that you absolutely *must* wear the ROW when going up against Metal Dragons, as probably half of the second wheel is covered with a chance to get a good drop. You would be insane not to wear the RoW at the Daggonoth Kings. So the Ring of Wealth always helps you when fighting monsters that can drop rare items. Over the long haul, it is better to wear it. The higher level monsters you fight the better off you will be while wearing it. If you are in the midst of a bad luck streak, blame the PNRG, not your ring! Your biggest foe will always be the pseudo random number generator, not the "ring of poverty".  Appendices: The RoW does NOT help at Barrows The RoW does NOT help getting Clue scrolls. The RoW does NOT help getting better Treasure Trail rewards once you have your scroll. The RoW does NOT help when gambling points at Barabarian Assault. The only known "True" random factor that can be converted to a number generater is based off of atmospheric noise. -------------------- | ||
Posted: March 12, 2008 02:47 pm | |||
  IRC Nickname: Snowzak Group: Emeritus Posts: 1193 Member No.: 5 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67 | Aaaaaahhh thanks! At last I know how exactly how it works. Thanks Fairy & DFudd. --------------------  London RL Meeting attendee - Paris RL meeting attendee Joined WG in October 2005 - Original DG - Ex-Raid Leader Proud Council Member from October 21st 2007 to May 19th 2008 | ||
Posted: March 12, 2008 03:49 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: His Lordship Group: Founder Posts: 6029 Member No.: 1 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 129 | Oh damn. I was hoping this wouldn't get leaked. I don't know how you got this, but I suggest nobody share it. But since the cat's out of the bag, it's three wheels not two. My source is an old friend who knows a Jmod IRL. --------------------  | ||
Posted: March 12, 2008 05:54 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Nirvanas Group: Ex-Member Posts: 334 Member No.: 240 Joined: February 16, 2008 Total Events Attended: 24 | sweet -------------------- Safe as fuck mate, safe as fuck | ||
Posted: March 12, 2008 06:27 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Spicy63 Group: Emeritus Posts: 785 Member No.: 50 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 0 | Wow, with out the Wheel Diagrams I don't think I would have understood it. It makes things that much clearer. Thanks Zeke and Fairy. --------------------   | ||
Posted: March 14, 2008 12:21 am | |||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Guests Posts: Member No.: 0 Joined: January 1, 1970 Total Events Attended: 1 |
Lol lordy, feel free to... Elaborate? ^.^ /me waits for lordys guide on the RoW -------------------- | ||
Posted: March 14, 2008 12:53 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Pyro Blade26 Group: Ex-Member Posts: 782 Member No.: 84 Joined: January 1, 2008 Total Events Attended: 64 | the "No drop" situation happens like every 10 seconds for me -.-  . i could have been a very lucky man (cough fairy cough) or an unlucky loser like myself =p --------------------     | ||
Posted: March 14, 2008 01:50 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Mr Glennfase Group: Emeritus Posts: 3064 Member No.: 39 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 220 | Awesome guide! That was one of the most useful guides ever. I've always wondered for the last 3 years and just hoped to god it helped. -------------------- That's Mr. Glennfase to you. Ex-Warlord/Council  | ||
Posted: March 14, 2008 02:12 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: karel Group: Emeritus Posts: 1021 Member No.: 57 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 89 | I haven't had a d drop yet  -------------------- Sig? | ||
Posted: March 14, 2008 09:06 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Guests Posts: Member No.: 0 Joined: January 1, 1970 Total Events Attended: 1 | Oh... now i know more about the RoW. Thought it never actually work cause i never get anythin. guess it take patients.  -------------------- | ||
Posted: March 14, 2008 09:10 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: [ FlAmEy ] Group: Ex-Member Posts: 848 Member No.: 138 Joined: January 20, 2008 Total Events Attended: 123 | Hmm so thts how it work i might start wearing it again thnx for this  -------------------- WG since january 28TH 2008   | ||
Posted: March 14, 2008 11:01 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Gorgemaster Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 9840 Member No.: 3 Joined: December 26, 2007 Total Events Attended: 540 | I also saw this on some other forums, like a week or two ago. I can't remember which though  Eh, I've only had two dragon drops- d skirt, d legs, both at steels :/ --------------------    | ||
Posted: March 15, 2008 07:14 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Gibble00 Group: Emeritus Posts: 775 Member No.: 100 Joined: January 3, 2008 Total Events Attended: 9 |  Nice guide. Even though I haven't had p2p in like a year or something, I can definitely respect this info. I want to hear Lordy's three-ring description --------------------  | ||
Posted: March 15, 2008 07:36 pm | |||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Guests Posts: Member No.: 0 Joined: January 1, 1970 Total Events Attended: 1 | I always wondered how the chances were increased by the ring of wealth  -------------------- | ||
Posted: March 15, 2008 08:40 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Kiwi011 Group: Emeritus Posts: 3052 Member No.: 40 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 21 | Fairy has 1 wheel. --------------------  | ||
Posted: March 15, 2008 09:10 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Maths Group: Ex-Member Posts: 1855 Member No.: 54 Joined: December 31, 2007 Total Events Attended: 286 |
 --------------------  "Journeys are what brings us happiness, Not the destination." ~ Two time ex-raid leader of wg ~  | ||
Posted: March 17, 2008 10:20 am | |||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Guests Posts: Member No.: 0 Joined: January 1, 1970 Total Events Attended: 1 |
 -------------------- | ||
Posted: March 17, 2008 03:38 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: asasin0222 Group: Clan Friend Posts: 135 Member No.: 32 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 0 | hmm i think i understand it -------------------- R.I.P. ASASIN0222 4/12/03-24/4/08  | ||
Posted: March 19, 2008 01:50 am | |||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Guests Posts: Member No.: 0 Joined: January 1, 1970 Total Events Attended: 1 | lol i use a zerker ring anyways lol -------------------- | ||
Posted: April 8, 2008 04:11 am | |||
| IRC Nickname: Group: Guests Posts: Member No.: 0 Joined: January 1, 1970 Total Events Attended: 1 | i think zerker ring works better because... it costs more -------------------- | ||
Posted: April 8, 2008 10:29 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Indivi2you Group: Elite Guardian Posts: 5361 Member No.: 43 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 623 | So... pretty much... just get a zerker ring? Thanks for the info though Makes me feel stupid... but still helps. -------------------- The First, The Last, and the Only ~FLO Never say never, because limits, like fears, are often just an illusion. ~Michael Jordan      | ||
Posted: April 9, 2008 01:31 am | |||
 IRC Nickname: Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls Group: Banned Posts: 2956 Member No.: 422 Joined: April 4, 2008 Total Events Attended: 130 | So... Would this apply to Armadyl (I know that the wheel system would, i'm just confused as to whether (as there are no Dragon items), the wheel might be different? Bottom line: Archer ring or RoW for Armadyl? -------------------- Mugger84 Member Of WG Since 4th April 2008. WG Raid Leader Since 20th June 2008. WG Council Since 20th November 2008. Banned from WG Since 6th March 2009. DF IG Since 6th March 2009. DF FA Since 15th March 2009. Ex-Member Of WG Since 26th March 2009. Member of DF Since 6th April 2009. Clan Friend of WG Since 4th June 2009. --- ||Ex-WG Warlord || Current Member of DF || Ex-Rampage Leader ||  | ||
Posted: April 9, 2008 06:30 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Gusmighster Group: Emeritus Posts: 1360 Member No.: 46 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 67 | Had to read it twice to understand it  Learn something new everyday  But if there was 3 wheels, the chance of getting a drop at GWD would surely be miniscule as you can only get around 40 kills a trip, and obviously the red section for getting any GWD drop is going to be wayyy smaller than dragon drop section. P.S - Who cares if this gets out? It will just mean more people were ROW so more get drops, it isn't like it's gonna effect you majorly.. --------------------  | ||
Posted: April 10, 2008 01:57 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Ansatsublade Group: Emeritus Posts: 765 Member No.: 101 Joined: January 3, 2008 Total Events Attended: 120 | Ok , That was a bit confusing... thanks for using colors (lol) --------------------  | ||
Posted: April 29, 2008 04:29 pm | |||
 IRC Nickname: Tnuac Group: Emeritus Posts: 1806 Member No.: 51 Joined: December 30, 2007 Total Events Attended: 58 | Wow, that's pretty interesting. Its hard to imagine the scale of possibility chances on something that seems so random and simplistic. -------------------- ~Aetas: carpe diem quam minimum credula postero~ "Seize the day and place no trust in tomorrow"  | ||
The Ultimate Guide to the RoW, Everything you need to know about it.Pages: (2) [1] 2