Fair Compromise for New Requirements

By Ragingwealth on 23/02/2009

Right now, there are three major stances over the new requirements:

PvP'ers and Warrers: Wants higher requirements
Skillers and low levels: Wants to keep the current requirements
Leadership: Wants to raise reqs without major unrest and to keep recruitment advantage of attracting low levels who have interests in other clans.

Posted this on IRC multiple times but it wasn't seen so I'll post it here.

Let's do a fair compromise, read it carefully:
We keep all current low levels AND current trial guardian requirements WITHOUT pushing them into training, but at the same time we introduce 5 rune set requirements for F2P, 10 rune set requirements for P2P AND 105 F2P Graduation requirements/102 with +90 range and +90 defence While STILL not affecting current trial guardians

There we go, Low levels won't have to worry, PvP'ers get a fair compromise on PvP and Leadership still keeps our low level recruitment advantage.

Remember, we all had to make sacrifices but it's for the good well being of the clan.

Copyrighted 2009 by Olly, Mike and Lee. All rights reserved, Copy a bit out of this and you'll no longer have what makes you a man.

By Narita on 23/02/2009

This was my suggestion in the irc discussion we had so yes i agree. good post mike.

By rachellove9 on 23/02/2009

Same old thing. Why can't you just be friendly and get the lower levels to train. Stop pushing a bunch of useless rules that only anger people. The ohhh you don't have to train is sooo unbelievable now that I pay no attention to that crap when I see it.

Steve took me to daggoneths
Omar to KBD
Rick to Iron Drags
Nolan to Ghouls
Andrew to Fire Giants in the wild
Dave to big Spiders

the list goes on... these people did something to get me to train not some useless post or rule that would just make me feel hostile and defensive. Get the idea that being friends is by far the better way.

By Ragingwealth on 23/02/2009

QUOTE (rachellove9 @ February 23, 2009 02:15 pm)

Have you actually read a single thing I said? I was talking about graduation requirements not current members training.

By rachellove9 on 23/02/2009

QUOTE (Ragingwealth @ February 23, 2009 09:17 am)

QUOTE (rachellove9 @ February 23, 2009 02:15 pm)

Have you actually read a single thing I said? I was talking about graduation requirements not current members training.

Traning is training. It doesn't matter who you want to push to do it. You go about it wrong.

By Ragingwealth on 23/02/2009

QUOTE (rachellove9 @ February 23, 2009 02:18 pm)

QUOTE (Ragingwealth @ February 23, 2009 09:17 am)

QUOTE (rachellove9 @ February 23, 2009 02:15 pm)

Have you actually read a single thing I said? I was talking about graduation requirements not current members training.

Traning is training. It doesn't matter who you want to push to do it. You go about it wrong.

And how am I pushing people? It's the future members (And not current trials) that lower our average down. When they join they'll know that we require 105 for graduation and thus, they agree that they'll train when they apply.

Keep in mind, we have dropped a lot of what we requested when we made this suggestion. Why can't you just drop THREE combat levels, even when it doesn't involve ANY current member.

We've been stuck at 116/115 f2p for over half a year now.

By WG_Aaron on 23/02/2009

the whole point of a clan is making sacrifices for it, to make the clan better. I would welcome the new 10 set req.

By Lee on 23/02/2009

Tbh, Im with Mike. I think raising the graduation reqs is a good idea. Ollys idea for the range tanks is good aswell, because there epically handy in wars, especially when there good tanks. Like other clan piling a 105, and he tanks them aswell as a 126. Its epic. Gives us an advantage.

By Narita on 23/02/2009

as lee has said, watch clans pile dave or majeic. they tank for alot longer than if we just said "wg is a non pure clan" there "pure" range tanks.

By NightRawrs on 23/02/2009

I've said this numerous times already..

I think the problem is that maybe we should get a new training programme for newer guardians that they have to make within a month maybe 2 of WG. To get them to higher combat, or maybe something like a 107Cmb to graduate.. They do have a month.

By Ragingwealth on 23/02/2009

QUOTE (Whizzy110 @ February 23, 2009 03:36 pm)

Thats exactly what's going to happen if this is implemented

They have one month to graduate after joining at 100 F2P, they train up to 105 F2P and they're in.

By George on 23/02/2009

It is currently a requirement to be 102 F2P Combat before you graduate.
If we up it to 105... then trials only have 4 weeks to go from 100 F2P ---> 105 F2P.... a bit of a short time don't you think?
- Especially when they have to prove their activity by attending loads of events and stuff.

~George

By Ragingwealth on 23/02/2009

QUOTE (Gorgemaster @ February 23, 2009 03:39 pm)

No way lol, it's like 100k xp at level 80 melee stats (Thats the typical 100 combat), you can get like 300k xp without no lifing at their levels.

By Narita on 23/02/2009

105 is 85-85-85 with 60 pray. not hard t do.

By Troll84 on 23/02/2009

We can't expect level 100's to get 5 combat levels in the one month they have to graduate :|

By Valdremia on 23/02/2009

This is edging your way into the higher tier in levels. Subtle but certainly intentional of course. But take heed that there's only that much you can edge. 2 scenarios will happen:

(1) Trials graduate in this trend, more trials graduate in this trend, the numbers build and the less pro-combat group gets edged out. Unless there's partiality for those who are combat level under the required at the time of implementations.

Slowly but surely, you move into the higher tier combat group as a community. You lose the sheen of an all rounded level clan. Make no mistake about that, you move forward you lose something behind.

(2) More trials graduate this way and become full fledge members, if you go hardcore, you start kicking in the long run. Loyalty becomes a question of time in service and dedication to making it in levels. We've been through this.

Its nice to nudge the message into the young bloods, without the inkling of "affecting" the current. But in the long run, you will start to make sacrifices. There are top clans that fights for tops everytime, it never ends, always like some circle of exchanges. Megamoth A takes 1st spot then its Megamoth B then its A again and its C then back again to B.

It's a very nice target, but when you get there you'll realise you might have lost something that you cannot have for being busy with tops, going back down again will be virtually unacceptable.

So, if this is the way you all want it to be, then be very conscience for this inevitable sacrifice and its not short term, it will be long term. And most likely cannot be reversed.

Just need to look at the power clans and communal clans. Being steady in the "middle" is rare. When you've already achieved that middle, its actually golden, if only you could see all sides.

I know this is nothing yet an idea moving into a high power house, some will argue. But while anyone of you harvest and push forward all signs of combat raise, just be mindful - you will leave behind something you cannot take back. That all rounded "golden" replaced by joining the defined numerical tops.

A 2 cents out of the blue but in all open thoughts. Cheers.

By Ragingwealth on 23/02/2009

QUOTE (Valdremia @ February 23, 2009 04:48 pm)

This is edging your way into the higher tier in levels. Subtle but certainly intentional of course. But take heed that there's only that much you can edge. 2 scenarios will happen:

(1) Trials graduate in this trend, more trials graduate in this trend, the numbers build and the less pro-combat group gets edged out. Unless there's partiality for those who are combat level under the required at the time of implementations.

Slowly but surely, you move into the higher tier combat group as a community. You lose the sheen of a all rounded level clan. Make no mistake about that, you move forward you lose something behind.

(2) More trials graduate this way and become full fledge members, if you go hardcore, you start kicking in the long run. Loyalty becomes a question of time in service and dedication to making it in levels. We've been through this.

Its nice to nudge the message into the young bloods, without the inkling of "affecting" the current. But in the long run, you will start to make sacrifices. There are top clans that fights for tops everytime, it never ends, always like some circle of exchanges. Megamoth A takes 1st spot then its Megamoth B then its A again and its C then back again to B.

It's a very nice target, but when you get there you'll realise you might have lost something that you cannot have for being busy with tops, going back down again will be virtually unacceptable.

So, if this is the way you all want it to be, then be very conscience for this inevitable sacrifice and its not short term, it will be long term. And most likely cannot be reversed.

Just need to look at the power clans and communal clans. Being steady in the "middle" is rare. When you've already achieved that middle, its actually golden, if only you could see all sides.

I know this is nothing yet an idea moving into a high power house, some will argue. But while anyone of you harvest and push forward all signs of combat raise, just be mindful - you will leave behind something you cannot take back.

A 2 cents out of the blue but in all open thoughts. Cheers.

Not seeking the top, top is never suited for a community clan. Just want to do proper PvP with clans and not get out levelled and out returned all the time.

Powerhouse isn't 105 combat honestly. I know lots of community clans with +105 Combat, one big example is TBE, Gladz and THE, all don't PK THAT often and are mainly a community clan (Does skill wars too)

By Valdremia on 23/02/2009

QUOTE (Ragingwealth @ February 24, 2009 12:51 am)

QUOTE (Valdremia @ February 23, 2009 04:48 pm)

This is edging your way into the higher tier in levels. Subtle but certainly intentional of course. But take heed that there's only that much you can edge. 2 scenarios will happen:

(1) Trials graduate in this trend, more trials graduate in this trend, the numbers build and the less pro-combat group gets edged out. Unless there's partiality for those who are combat level under the required at the time of implementations.

Slowly but surely, you move into the higher tier combat group as a community. You lose the sheen of a all rounded level clan. Make no mistake about that, you move forward you lose something behind.

(2) More trials graduate this way and become full fledge members, if you go hardcore, you start kicking in the long run. Loyalty becomes a question of time in service and dedication to making it in levels. We've been through this.

Its nice to nudge the message into the young bloods, without the inkling of "affecting" the current. But in the long run, you will start to make sacrifices. There are top clans that fights for tops everytime, it never ends, always like some circle of exchanges. Megamoth A takes 1st spot then its Megamoth B then its A again and its C then back again to B.

It's a very nice target, but when you get there you'll realise you might have lost something that you cannot have for being busy with tops, going back down again will be virtually unacceptable.

So, if this is the way you all want it to be, then be very conscience for this inevitable sacrifice and its not short term, it will be long term. And most likely cannot be reversed.

Just need to look at the power clans and communal clans. Being steady in the "middle" is rare. When you've already achieved that middle, its actually golden, if only you could see all sides.

I know this is nothing yet an idea moving into a high power house, some will argue. But while anyone of you harvest and push forward all signs of combat raise, just be mindful - you will leave behind something you cannot take back.

A 2 cents out of the blue but in all open thoughts. Cheers.

Yes, I certainly know you mean that. That is why I have highlighted once you move the current level, you are moving higher. With that it will take you closer to the highs. Sooner or later.

There's a threshold to levels, beyond that, you either need to go further or fall back. In most cases, you won't allow yourself to fall back. And there's that comfort zone that allows you to exercise either way. There are reasons why the levels stayed this way this long. Move that and you will be inclined to move more ahead.

I had once been an ardent supporter of encouraging training up to 105 during OPH. Encouragement is different from imposement. But, in general, while its really a gladness to train, one realise it is in appreciation to allow a good spread in levels that actually prove to be more harmonious to the community. It is an intrinsic affair to appreciate. There's really no right or wrong, but more of matters placing which values over another, each bringing its own consequence and reaps.

All I am saying is, just be mindful and do what you think is mindful after considering all possible aspects without sacrificing what's most important afterall.

By Quikdrawjoe on 23/02/2009

No.

By George on 23/02/2009

QUOTE (Quikdrawjoe @ February 23, 2009 05:36 pm)

No.

Care to elaborate?

By Toshortofnam on 23/02/2009

Lee = nh

Sounds good to me

By Billy on 23/02/2009

The way i see it, current skill members are safe, train when they like, if they never do, thats there choice, that shouldn't bother anybody. They are happy being here for the community and not the rank in whatever event we are. However its not the same the other way round, for the members who enjoy the pks we NEED higher levels, this will encourage more to come because in theory people can tank longer, making fights last longer, and the whole enjoyment of the fight alot more fun.

Raising the requirements doesn't affect anybody but the pvp'ers. People will register, intro, and apply knowing exactly what they need to achieve. If i can get from 115-117 in a month, somebody can get 102-105. Its like a quarter of the XP.

All in all for members to enjoy and be more motivated to pvp with the clan, we need more levels, it helps everybody. And really doesn't affect the skilling section.

By Ragingwealth on 23/02/2009

QUOTE (Valdremia @ February 23, 2009 04:59 pm)

QUOTE (Ragingwealth @ February 24, 2009 12:51 am)

QUOTE (Valdremia @ February 23, 2009 04:48 pm)

This is edging your way into the higher tier in levels. Subtle but certainly intentional of course. But take heed that there's only that much you can edge. 2 scenarios will happen:

(1) Trials graduate in this trend, more trials graduate in this trend, the numbers build and the less pro-combat group gets edged out. Unless there's partiality for those who are combat level under the required at the time of implementations.

Slowly but surely, you move into the higher tier combat group as a community. You lose the sheen of a all rounded level clan. Make no mistake about that, you move forward you lose something behind.

(2) More trials graduate this way and become full fledge members, if you go hardcore, you start kicking in the long run. Loyalty becomes a question of time in service and dedication to making it in levels. We've been through this.

Its nice to nudge the message into the young bloods, without the inkling of "affecting" the current. But in the long run, you will start to make sacrifices. There are top clans that fights for tops everytime, it never ends, always like some circle of exchanges. Megamoth A takes 1st spot then its Megamoth B then its A again and its C then back again to B.

It's a very nice target, but when you get there you'll realise you might have lost something that you cannot have for being busy with tops, going back down again will be virtually unacceptable.

So, if this is the way you all want it to be, then be very conscience for this inevitable sacrifice and its not short term, it will be long term. And most likely cannot be reversed.

Just need to look at the power clans and communal clans. Being steady in the "middle" is rare. When you've already achieved that middle, its actually golden, if only you could see all sides.

I know this is nothing yet an idea moving into a high power house, some will argue. But while anyone of you harvest and push forward all signs of combat raise, just be mindful - you will leave behind something you cannot take back.

A 2 cents out of the blue but in all open thoughts. Cheers.

Well made post.

However, I assure you the new requirements suggestion is meant to be a permanent unchangeable fix. I know you believe that we may aim for higher in the future but that wouldn't happen unless a huge Jagex update threatens the clan's survivability. Many Clans, especially The Gladiators and The Death Monkeighs had a permanent rule of not changing combat above the requirements that were suggested, The Gladiators has been +107 for a long time, and The Death Monkeighs were +90 (But changed to +95 because of the High Crater Bounty Hunter Update, as it had quite an effect on the clan).

We don't need higher requirements than the ones I proposed, sure higher can be better but it'd have an effect on our skillers and new recruits. The +105 purely allows us to attract Lower levels into the clan and skillers as well as PvP'ers who enjoy a good community.

This suggestion is so we can keep up with the Clan World, from what I understood WG's strength in the past was numbers and not levels. Well the problem is that WG has neither right now, and it's almost impossible to get more than 100 active recruits at these time for a community clan because the clan world is slowly losing more and more members. So the main option for us now is proper organization and a decent (Not high) combat average. This Requirements update can push us up to 118 F2P if not more without any effort of members.
Of course members are encouraged to train, but this would take so much stress off their backs as they have an excuse to use on those who constantly push them to train.

Some people may say that Skilling, not just warring and pvp, also needs updating (In terms of more suggestions), That's quite true and I agree, so if you have an idea to improve skilling then please share it with us by making a post.

Plus having 105 F2P for graduation would make us get more quality members, because they want to train, for us, for our clan. This proves great dedication and also it won't demolish the work of many who constantly train just to raise our clan's average.

By Jayson on 23/02/2009

maybe we can have 102cmb req for graduate, but then 105 by the second month. so if they get 105 before they graduate, win.

Also not al members joining that are < 105 are going to be lvl 100, 102's or even 104's could join, meaning people may not need as much combat levels.

By Ragingwealth on 23/02/2009

QUOTE (Jadi Simondz @ February 23, 2009 08:41 pm)

maybe we can have 102cmb req for graduate, but then 105 by the second month. so if they get 105 before they graduate, win.

Only if it's going to be strictly enforced then sure, as long as they'll get 105 F2P

QUOTE

Also not al members joining that are < 105 are going to be lvl 100, 102's or even 104's could join, meaning people may not need as much combat levels.

Exactly.

By Mickey on 23/02/2009

We only have 8 people below 105 Combat, and 105 combat is easy to get with Soul Wars/Armoured Zombies etc nowadays, on top of that, even with 105+ Combat reqs, we still will have some of the lowest requirements amongst clans of our size anyway, so I don't see why so much fuss is being made over it

By Quikdrawjoe on 23/02/2009

QUOTE (Gorgemaster @ February 23, 2009 05:43 pm)

QUOTE (Quikdrawjoe @ February 23, 2009 05:36 pm)

No.

Care to elaborate?

A journey of a thousand miles beings with one step. To me this is the first step, there will always be something to improve, nobody is perfect. This plan along with any other to raise/change the requirements(at least the current ones) are if not the first step then the next step on a journey I do not want to see WG take. In the end it will never be enough, the change will be slow but sure and WG will become something it was never meant to be and that I personally don't think it should be. Don't get me wrong, I love warring but the best thing about WG that no other clan can ever match is our community and APRK code. Those two things are the reasons I joined WG and I feel the farther we go down this new road the farther we move away from our core values. Now you may say being a powerhouse would be a great way to enforce the ARPK code and new requirements would be a step on this path, I disagree, Stoke actually made an interesting point here that I feel deserves mention about how the community was the base for being a powerhouse. The loyalty he felt to the other members and other members felt to each other as a whole was why WG was so dominant, we had the spirit not just the stats. I feel we need to care more about our community than what RSC thinks of WG, if we did that much we should drop the ARPK code and do hours and hours of PKRIs.

P.S. That enough?

By Lee on 23/02/2009

QUOTE (Maddness990 @ February 23, 2009 03:46 pm)

Read my post, What about the range tanks, Whos max combat level is 104 or something?

By Toshortofnam on 23/02/2009

QUOTE (Leecable @ February 23, 2009 03:56 pm)

QUOTE (Maddness990 @ February 23, 2009 03:46 pm)

Read my post, What about the range tanks, Whos max combat level is 104 or something?

Tanks usually max 104-106 xD Tank unit kthx

By Joe mamma27 on 23/02/2009

Personally, I don't see how 3 more combat levels as a requirement to graduate is going to ruin a clan

.

And 103 unit ftw Dave

By Ragingwealth on 23/02/2009

QUOTE (Quikdrawjoe @ February 23, 2009 08:51 pm)

QUOTE (Gorgemaster @ February 23, 2009 05:43 pm)

QUOTE (Quikdrawjoe @ February 23, 2009 05:36 pm)

No.

Care to elaborate?

No one is foolish enough to turn a community clan into a complete Powerhouse, I don't believe it happened before nor will it happen in the future.

We can keep our low requirements but in the long run it'll hurt us big time because we're not picking up the pace. A lot in WG work hard to help us in raising our combat average but it's not enough because the new trials put the hard work down as all what we get is low levels for the most part.

Those who want us to be a powerhouse said they wanted +110 if not more, those who want us to remain unchanged have said they don't want change. Get a fair compromise to keep both sides happy, it certainly won't turn us into a powerhouse because no powerhouse clan requires 5 rune sets and 105. We don't raid or war enough to be powerhouse, nor am I saying we should.

Strength is in the community, but PvP is also part of the community, probably one of the largest factors in it. It's all about team work, how would it hurt the community when no one IN the community is going to be affected?

And like I said in my reply to Valdy's post, this is meant to be a final change and not as a 'Trick' to lure the clan into more combat raising.

By Chimpy on 23/02/2009

Agreed.

And we could also do an FA system (I know, TG is our FA system) where the reqs are like 100+ or something, and make it like 102-103 to apply, and level 105 within the trial period (of what length idk yet, maybe 45 days or so). Heck we can even make it like 95+ FA why not.

Just my two cents, whatever you decide is fine though, as long as some action is taken. (And the req's should be raised seeing as the majority of people voted in favor of a raise.)

By Narita on 23/02/2009

QUOTE (Jadi Simondz @ February 23, 2009 03:41 pm)

they have to be 102 f2p on graduation atm anyway.

By Quikdrawjoe on 23/02/2009

Why do we need a higher combat average? Why not just have better tanks?

By Chimpy on 23/02/2009

QUOTE (Quikdrawjoe @ February 23, 2009 06:35 pm)

QUOTE (Chimp Guy0 @ February 23, 2009 09:57 pm)

No [ 34 ] [36.56%]
Yes, to 102 or 103 [ 12 ] [12.90%]
Yes, to 105 [ 25 ] [26.88%]

A majority said no.

A majority said Yes to raising the Req's., not if you only look at 105 I agree, but most said Yes to atleast raising the reqs.

No [ 34 ] [36.56%]
Yes, to 102 or 103 [ 12 ] [12.90%]
Yes, to 105 [ 25 ] [26.88%]
Yes, to 107 [ 7 ] [7.53%]
Yes, to 110 [ 9 ] [9.68%]
Yes, to above 110 [ 6 ] [6.45%]
Total Votes: 93

34 voted no, but 59 said yes to raising the reqs.

By Randy on 23/02/2009

105+ or 102+ with 85 (maybe 90) defense sounds legit to me..

By Elyxiatic on 24/02/2009

If we were edging for 120+ requirements, that'd be powerhouse.
105+ is hardly powerhouse.

Honestly wg requirements haven't changed in so long.
107-110 is the new 100 if you all haven't realised.

Look.
This situation is exactly the same as what happens with maxed players (2376 total).
About 1 year back, there was 4-5 of them?
Now there's 100+ of them.

It's exactly the same with combat.
There are such a large group of 100+ people these days, its really nothing to brag about.
As times change, we as a clan have to adapt as well.
Yes, there should be 105+ requirements.

Even 100+ (application), then 105+ (after trial) process is a baby step.
But I s'pose I'd settle with that to keep the "skillers" happy.

By Colinwarrior on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Quikdrawjoe @ February 23, 2009 11:35 pm)

Why do we need a higher combat average? Why not just have better tanks?

Thank you Joe.

Doesn't anyone remember Adelais when they first formed? They had the shittiest levels in the world but still kicked ass because they knew how to tank, and were extremely organized. It's not all about levels.

By Joe mamma27 on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Colinwarrior @ February 23, 2009 08:59 pm)

QUOTE (Quikdrawjoe @ February 23, 2009 11:35 pm)

Why do we need a higher combat average? Why not just have better tanks?

-Not flaming, real questions-

Do you have any suggestions to get better tanks? It's hard to tell if a person is a good tank through an application and currently as a Trial Guardian I've only had to tank once. I was told that I did very well but I didn't really receive any tips to improve (maybe I'm just that good?

).

One idea from me, to get better tanks that is, is to take people to common warring places to teach them how to tank. I personally have not done PvP in the wilderness since the "old wilderness" was taken out over a year ago. Meaning I had no clue what "tree to tree" was until a few days when we had a war there. I had no clue what to hug or how to tank there.

By rachellove9 on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Mathsnerd18 @ February 23, 2009 08:18 pm)

What do you mean requirements haven't changed for so long. When I joined a year ago you only had to be 85 combat and I was 88. I'm sick of hearing about raising levels. It is not about the skillers. It is about the community. I consider myself more about the community than being a skiller. I haven't skilled for over a month. I am only doing combat.

To be honest, a lot of people will be unhappy which ever way the requirements go. If you raise them then the "no" are upset. If you don't then the others will be. It is now a no win situation. What has to be decided is which way will hurt the community more.

I do not agree with Mike about his attitude of it won't hurt anyone. We have heard it before that this is the change we need and it won't effect you. We were told to not worry over going to wars. Then it all changes when the greed and pride of people get in the way of wanting to be "in the ranks". The rules change slowly.

This is like baking brownies with just a tiny spoonful of dog poop in them. They are put in the oven at 400 degrees so it should kill all the bacteria and be safe for you to eat them. How many of you want to eat those brownies? I think no one. Just adding this one lil thing is not going to hurt us. Bull crap. It will change the community yet again.

By Useph1 on 24/02/2009

Raising requirements to 105 would be taking one step forward in the War Part of WG and two steps back (one in skilling and one in community). Truth is, it's more like taking 5 steps back in community because there are literally tens of thousands of potential members out there between 100 and 105 combat, and by raising the reqs there's a good chance they'll find another clan and settle on it.

If I was looking for a clan and I was level 101, I came here and saw 105+, chances are I'd just keep looking for another clan. And there's virtually nothing that would get me to leave that clan for WG. There's a member lost forever.

What are the really good things about higher combat reqs anyway?

By Nick on 24/02/2009

How exactly will raising the requirements help?

It does raise our combat by making people train to be in the clan but who wants to join a clan at a lower level when they have to work their asses off to be in it if they are only level 100. Some people have lives and are still pretty damn active within WG. Examples include not only myself but also Mark and I am sure there are some more.

There are some people that just plain out don't like training combat; myself being pretty much one of them. Giving someone the task of training 5 combat levels in 1 month along with attending events, gaining friends, and the other shit that is required to graduate is just too much on someone. I did do 2 combat levels plus all of that in the summer, but that is the summer and half of that. It did still take me two weeks.

Telling someone to train up to 5 combat levels in a month along with attending 5 events will be very discouraging to some people. Because they don't want to do that you will call them "not dedicated" or "not active" but that is complete and total bullshit.

Screw our combat average. Let's just keep our warring up. Combat levels are not always the factor when it comes to someone's skill and techniques in a war, since that is all that some people care about.

I am just going to quote a rough idea of what Maths has said before:
"Alright then, don't train. That means that I get more profit and I die less when it comes to the wilderness. If you train, we do better. Win-win."

If someone is tired of losing rune, they will train. If someone is tired of getting cut, they will train. If someone feels pressure to train, they could leave. People are in a clan to have fun and to enjoy what they are doing in groups; not to feel pressured from the clan to do something that they might not enjoy.

Just give it up. Please.

By Elyxiatic on 24/02/2009

The point really is 100+ is so low level in today's clan society.
Wg used to be a "mid-entry" clan.

Not 90+, not 115+, but 100+
That was 2-3 years ago.
If you remember in the past, wg did do requirements raise simply because the other levels were too "nooby".

This is exactly whats happening again.
I don't even know why half of you are complaning.
Most of you are 105+

By Nick on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Mathsnerd18 @ February 23, 2009 11:47 pm)

I don't even know why half of you are complaning.
Most of you are 105+

If you follow on that point, then no one should complain or care because none of us would be affected. This whole plan does not affect trials or anyone else.

The argument is whether it is for the better of the clan or not, not if it would any of us would be affected.

By rachellove9 on 24/02/2009

I didn't join the war clan at lvl 100. I joined the non-warring clan that only required lvl 85. I have just as much right to voice my dislike of any plan that is suggested as you all have to support it.

I wasn't the one to allow lvl 85's to join WG. That decision was made by a council, who all those before me elected and felt could make the best decisions. So I don't want to hear complaining or people saying it has always been 100+ cause that is just not true. Or how would of I got in this clan?

By Elyxiatic on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (rachellove9 @ February 24, 2009 04:03 pm)

I didn't join the war clan at lvl 100. I joined the non-warring clan that only required lvl 85.

We don't have a non-warring clan anymore.
Remember rachel, wars are mandatory

By rachellove9 on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Mathsnerd18 @ February 24, 2009 07:27 am)

QUOTE (rachellove9 @ February 24, 2009 04:03 pm)

I didn't join the war clan at lvl 100. I joined the non-warring clan that only required lvl 85.

We don't have a non-warring clan anymore.
Remember rachel, wars are mandatory

Look at my war badge. Actually look at my war attendance and compare to some of the others. I don't think any one can complain to much about my war attendance or my training or the amount of rune sets I own. My attendance has gone done only because I no longer skill while I am doing a very committed 100 days of training combat. I should of thought that would make people happy.

Your only real complaint is that I don't happen to agree with your way of thinking. I have the same right as anyone else to voice my opinions on this forum in a non flaming way. I have not flame baited or broken any rules here.

My stating that I joined a non-war clan is true. I am not lying or saying anything that everyone can't research and find the evidence that it is as I have said.

By Elyxiatic on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (rachellove9 @ February 24, 2009 11:03 pm)

QUOTE (Mathsnerd18 @ February 24, 2009 07:27 am)

QUOTE (rachellove9 @ February 24, 2009 04:03 pm)

I didn't join the war clan at lvl 100. I joined the non-warring clan that only required lvl 85.

We don't have a non-warring clan anymore.
Remember rachel, wars are mandatory

Yeah but we "changed" into a warring clan.
Which has skilling on the side.

You have to change too.

By Ragingwealth on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Colinwarrior @ February 24, 2009 01:59 am)

QUOTE (Quikdrawjoe @ February 23, 2009 11:35 pm)

Why do we need a higher combat average? Why not just have better tanks?

It certainly isn't, which is why I suggested +105 for graduation not +115 requirements (Typical for a Powerhouse, which we aren't and won't be). Organization is great but it certainly sucks, we have people getting KO'ed in 20's matched options (Even high levels at times, but it's not that often).

Tanking one thing, major perhaps, but it certainly won't win you a fight. You also need combat levels if you want to KO and pile properly.

I didn't ask current members to train because I'm sure most will, not all but most eventually. But that's not the problem, the problem is that the majority of people come and go, so we have members who train very hard and may leave eventually, and then what? The majority come in low levels and just sit without training for a long period of time which severely hurts people's efforts in boosting our average.

------------

Useph: It certainly isn't a step back in community, because warring and PvP is a part of the community, so if it improves the community actually improves as well. As for skilling it won't be hurt because the skillers are mainly people like Anatcrafter and Moose, in fact having a higher level helps us out in a lot of events.

If it would make you feel better, we could also propose a skill level requirement (One seperate for P2P and another seperate for F2P of course).

If a member refuses to join us because we have 3 more levels for GRADUATION (Similar requirements as the current ones for application in this suggestion), then chances are they aren't dedicated enough.

---------------------

Lefty:

QUOTE

It does raise our combat by making people train to be in the clan but who wants to join a clan at a lower level when they have to work their asses off to be in it if they are only level 100

100 to 105 is easily done if one spends 2 hours per day on it (They'll be done within 1 week - 2 weeks if they do it properly), besides, why would you think only level 100's would join us? We'd get 115s, 110s, 120s, 105s and people between 105-100

QUOTE

There are some people that just plain out don't like training combat; myself being pretty much one of them. Giving someone the task of training 5 combat levels in 1 month along with attending events, gaining friends, and the other shit that is required to graduate is just too much on someone. I did do 2 combat levels plus all of that in the summer, but that is the summer and half of that. It did still take me two weeks.

I don't like training combat myself, and almost everyone doesn't. As I said above remember we aren't only getting 100's, and we have a lot of events they can still attend (Event attendance is acquired usually 30 minutes after the event starts but can go up or down depending on the type of the event).

If 100-105 truly takes that much work then that can be fixed easily, give them more graduation time.

I personally still don't see why you're against a requirement raise that won't affect any current member. Remember that trial guardians are on a clan based Trial in which they have to prove their worth and hold their keep. If they say 'I don't want to train' when the requirements clearly said that they have to train then that IS NOT dedication, because they knew the requirements when they joined.

---------------------

Rachel:

QUOTE

No one said you can't voice your concerns.

QUOTE

I wasn't the one to allow lvl 85's to join WG. That decision was made by a council, who all those before me elected and felt could make the best decisions. So I don't want to hear complaining or people saying it has always been 100+ cause that is just not true. Or how would of I got in this clan?

Never said it was 100+ because Lordy made the clan when he was like what, level 50?

What I am saying is that we keep up while still not losing our identity as a community clan that does all sort of ingame activities.

By rachellove9 on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Mathsnerd18 @ February 24, 2009 08:52 am)

QUOTE (rachellove9 @ February 24, 2009 11:03 pm)

QUOTE (Mathsnerd18 @ February 24, 2009 07:27 am)

QUOTE (rachellove9 @ February 24, 2009 04:03 pm)

I didn't join the war clan at lvl 100. I joined the non-warring clan that only required lvl 85.

We don't have a non-warring clan anymore.
Remember rachel, wars are mandatory

Yeah but we "changed" into a warring clan.
Which has skilling on the side.

You have to change too.

Ohh dear, so your saying I must of always gone to wars, trained and did combat things? Do you really believe I haven't changed? Come on that is lame. I have the levels to prove that I have changed. I can say that my combat percentage has come up since the "change" in the clan. Don't even attempt to claim that I haven't changed with the clan.

This is not about me changing, it is about whether I agree with "changing" again and again to suit those that want to war and not be as concerned with community. Excuse me, I still think we are a community clan that wars and does skills too. We may have gotten more war based, but that doesn't mean we have to keep moving in that direction at the cost of losing our community. Everything comes at a cost. Reread what some of the others think as well. I'm not alone in thinking that the community needs to come first.

It's not that I would ever deny you your warring. I know that even lil boys beat up each other with sticks. I don't think that changing the requirements is going to help the community. Decisions need to be evaluated as to why to do them and what the cost. The cost is to high.

This clan has some basic principals that it is based on that makes it an awesome clan. Do you really want to mess with something that has stood the tests over time and survived? The family is what is most important not some post on rsc or level in some other persons view.

By Quikdrawjoe on 24/02/2009

Adelais was 95+ and they KOed a 126. Our problem is performance and numbers, if we gain those we can handle almost anything. If we have organization, tanking, and numbers our levels have little effect at 100+.

To Maths, the reason I care is because if I wanted what is being promoted I would go become an FA to one of those clans rather than be in WG.

To Jr, that was the purpose of tanking practice, which has noticably declined for various reasons.

By Ragingwealth on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Quikdrawjoe @ February 24, 2009 04:11 pm)

Thats the thing, Joe, most of those interested in clanning nowadays have left the clan world. Only few remain so it's very hard for a non-top PKRI clan to gain over 100 members, so we lose our member advantage right there (as we don't get very impressive pulls in to PvP things(, so the only way we can make up to it is become like any other clan, decent requirements and to rely on levels and organization.

By rachellove9 on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Ragingwealth @ February 24, 2009 11:28 am)

QUOTE (Quikdrawjoe @ February 24, 2009 04:11 pm)

Mike, reread what you wrote. Your saying you want WG to be like every other clan. Then what sets us apart as the better place to be? All the other clans have a community, not saying how good. Are we going to rely on our pretty awesome website? Your admitting here that you want us to be like everyone else. That is not what the clan has been founded on.

Who says we are a PKRI clan? I could claim we are a wood cutting clan then cause we have wood cutting events? Just because we have those type events does not define who WG is as a clan. We are a community clan that does have a strong war base with skilling also.

By Ragingwealth on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (rachellove9 @ February 24, 2009 04:53 pm)

QUOTE (Ragingwealth @ February 24, 2009 11:28 am)

QUOTE (Quikdrawjoe @ February 24, 2009 04:11 pm)

I didn't mean we're a PKRI clan, I meant our current ranking in PKRI's isn't in the top when I said that (Nor am I aiming for that, 10 hour PKRI's aren't my thing)

QUOTE

Your admitting here that you want us to be like everyone else. That is not what the clan has been founded on.

Re-read what I said, I said in terms of PvP strength (Proper, not high, levels and good organization). Never said we just follow the system of other clans.

QUOTE

Who says we are a PKRI clan? I could claim we are a wood cutting clan then cause we have wood cutting events? Just because we have those type events does not define who WG is as a clan. We are a community clan that does have a strong war base with skilling also.

Thanks for repeating what I said in 3 pages right now lol.

By David on 24/02/2009

I was thinking about making another post, but I think it would just get overshadowed like all my others, so I'm posting it here so maybe someone will actually see it.

Instead of having a combat requirement and stuff, have a quota. A very, very lenient quota; 2 combat stat levels per month. Yes, 2 level ups (not combat levels, just individual stats) per month. This could be for everyone, or just people 105- or 110-, it would be at the Council's discretion.

I know it's not the increase many warrers would like, but it's something and over time it would have an effect. We could keep our 100+ requirements and skillers wouldn't have to abandon their skills in favor of combat training.

That could EASILY be done in a few days without no-lifing. My thinking was that a large number of us are students, so we have homework. When we have homework, we can log-in, go to Bandits, DT Skeletons, Armored Zombies and just AFK. Check every 15 minutes while doing homework. Doing this once a week could easily get the two required levels.

It's definitely not to much to ask for because it could be done in a single day if someone wanted to.

Obviously it's not perfect yet, but with some work I think this could solve the issue. It addresses the combat aspect, albeit quite lightly, but also keeps the skillers happy because it's not a hike, just a gradual increase for each individual person.

By Nick on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (1colonel1 @ February 24, 2009 12:48 pm)

That could EASILY be done in a few days without no-lifing. My thinking was that a large number of us are students, so we have homework. When we have homework, we can log-in, go to Bandits, DT Skeletons, Armored Zombies and just AFK. Check every 15 minutes while doing homework. Doing this once a week could easily get the two required levels.

I am not going to AFK train. It is almost equivalent to using an autoer or bot, except you exploit the NPC's aggressiveness and then walk away rather than having something click for you. I see them on almost the same level; with one being just a little less.

QUOTE (Ragingwealth)

What is properly? AFKing? Not doing Slayer?
Also with that statement you are still not explaining how this will really help us. We still would get 115s, 110s, 120s, 105s, and people between 105-110. You are basically encouraging them to work their asses off to train, and from reading a very touching blog and thinking about it, when you work your ass off to train, you don't learn anything. You are kinda becoming what is called a "ch00b" (combat noob). You are working and not noticing your surroundings or how to improve.

QUOTE (Ragingwealth)

I personally still don't see why you're against a requirement raise that won't affect any current member. Remember that trial guardians are on a clan based Trial in which they have to prove their worth and hold their keep. If they say 'I don't want to train' when the requirements clearly said that they have to train then that IS NOT dedication, because they knew the requirements when they joined.

I don't agree with what you are proposing on making trials go through. Raising the requirements is going to lower the amount of recruits and not increase the combat area. If I personally was to see that I was basically *forced* to train 5 combat levels (and I joined at 100 F2P combat) then I would find me another clan.

You need to remember what it would be like to be a trial guardian or an intro instead of trying to be an *elitist* who wants WG to be like every other clan and follow the increasing combat requirements. Screw every other clan. We can still be 100+ requirements and be as good or better than clans that are 110+ combat. We beat RE in a full out, 110+ combat requirement I believe.

Let me ask you this question, and don't half ass the answer. Why do you want the increase and what is your predicted effects?

By Randy on 24/02/2009

In the time you waste argueing that training is bad you could of been 120 already.

By rachellove9 on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Kingrandy0 @ February 24, 2009 01:57 pm)

In the time you waste argueing that training is bad you could of been 120 already.

yeah they keep on distracting us. They should know better than to argue this non-ending fight.

Still love you Randy.

By Ragingwealth on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (rachellove9 @ February 24, 2009 07:06 pm)

QUOTE (Kingrandy0 @ February 24, 2009 01:57 pm)

In the time you waste argueing that training is bad you could of been 120 already.

yeah they keep on distracting us. They should know better than to argue this non-ending fight.

Still love you Randy.

We'll just keep distracting you, so just stay off the topic so we don't distract you and you can train!

QUOTE

Let me ask you this question, and don't half ass the answer. Why do you want the increase and what is your predicted effects?

Oh I'll give you one.
It's no secret that a lot of WG members are like this right now:
Join up as low levels -> Average goes down -> Train up -> Average goes high -> Another low level joins -> Average goes down once again -> A high level or low level leaves -> Average same as the start.

Other clans, and yes, COMMUNITY clans, I'll pull up statistics:

[G] The Gladiatorz ( http://www.the-gladiatorz.com ) | Members: 71 | Avg: Cmb: (F2P: 120.76)
[The] THE Clan ( http://www.theclan.ws ) | Members: 103 | Avg: Cmb: (F2P: 120.68)
[TBE] The British Elites ( http://forums.britishelites.com/ ) | Members: 113 | Avg: Cmb: (F2P: 117.43)

Look at their averages, TBE used to be higher but they lost members (Used to be 120-118), but Gladz and THE remained the same. ALL OF THESE ARE COMMUNITY CLANS FOCUSED ON COMMUNITY FIRST, PVP AND SKILLING SECOND

Now that I pulled up statistics:

The clan world changes.

We have to adapt our community so that it stands a chance, we currently don't. How many times have we stood our ground in a PvP trip? VERY rare, it's because when you have lots of low levels it's easy to get KO'ed (Sure high levels get KO'ed too but its a 300% more chance for low levels), which results in us getting CLEARED in 10 minutes if not less if we fight a clan SLIGHTLY stronger than us.

What would the requirement do:

It'll give us a MUCH higher combat average (Yes 2-1 levels is considered huge, it won't have instant effects but it will have effects in the future).

105 from 102 is possibly 3 combat averages. People who train to give us a better average would be relieved because they see that the combat average still improves.

Why didn't I ask CURRENT low levels to train? It's up to them and I know how much it pisses them off, as it's not our right to enforce it upon them when it wasn't in the rules when they joined.
But if a 100-104 joins us THEY'LL WELL DAMN KNOW that our requirements REQUIRES MANDATORY TRAINING TO 105, not following it is totally AGAINST dedication.

Now I have a question for you.
Why are you so against the idea, and give me a proper reason not one like 'Pmg it's gona kill the community and skilling@@@' (3 combat levels more than now, it surely isn't going to be killing the community?)

By Eregion2 on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Kingrandy0 @ February 24, 2009 01:57 pm)

In the time you waste argueing that training is bad you could of been 120 already.

I found Armored Zombies.

Seriously though, we've been fence-sitting this issue for years. We keep our requirements low to help recruitment, but at the same time we're subsequently unhappy with the people we do recruit because they have lower levels. To correct this we talk about raising the requirements, but never to a degree high enough to actually make a significant difference.

I also noticed that a few people have argued in favor of a defense level requirement, which would make sense since the whole argument behind this is that people aren't able to tank efficiently. Yet this is ignored? I guess a higher combat average looks better.

QUOTE (Quikdrawjoe)

That's also worth quoting. Even if we were all 10 levels higher than we are now, it's not the levels that matter so much as the INTEREST (this is why an entry requirement of 105 isn't going to make us 120 any faster than 102).

Frankly, there are people here (such as myself) who don't really care about RS PvP because it's boring as hell. I'm constantly astonished at the otherwise perfectly balanced individuals who enjoy wars and multi-hour PKRIs.

You can't have it both ways; either the community faction has to scram, or there has to be a system that accommodates everyone (or have some SW events, that'd be a fun way to do tanking practice). I've tried to figure out ways to keep the best of both worlds before, but my grand schemes are always shunned because they'd mean more work for the higher ups (seriously, I'll do the work for you! Just a cursory evanescent entity).

We won't accomplish anything just going around in circles like this because the council and up aren't interested in picking one side of the fence or the other, or putting in the work to knock the fence down. So anything we come up with is superfluous until they decide it's time to do something. But when they do, they arbitrarily do whatever they want, so in the end it's pointless for us to talk about it at all. But hell, all in favor of free speech! I'll keep posting at least.

By Ragingwealth on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Eregion2 @ February 24, 2009 07:48 pm)

QUOTE (Kingrandy0 @ February 24, 2009 01:57 pm)

In the time you waste argueing that training is bad you could of been 120 already.

I found Armored Zombies.

QUOTE (Quikdrawjoe)

That's also worth quoting. Even if we were all 10 levels higher than we are now, it's not the levels that matter so much as the INTEREST. Frankly, there are people here (such as myself) who don't really care about RS PvP because it's boring as hell. I'm constantly astonished at the otherwise perfectly balanced individuals who enjoy multi-hour PKRIs.

You can't have it both ways; either get rid of us, or come up with a system that accommodates us (or have some SW events, that'd be a fun way to do tanking practice). I've tried to figure out ways to keep the best of both worlds before, but my grand schemes are shunned because they'd mean more work for the higher ups (seriously, I'll do the work for you! Just a cursory evanescent entity).

We won't accomplish anything just going around in circles like this; figure it out.

No one said a thing about skillers.

You don't have to attend because when you joined no rule said it's mandatory Raiding.

But this is for our combat average which helps in PvP PKRI'S (Which I've been told is mandatory because they're more important than RAW Wars).
Also helps in Raiding and Small mini wars.

It's not going to affect a single skiller and their stance about PvP.

By Eregion2 on 24/02/2009

I'm sorry, I habitually heavily edit most all my posts in the first five minutes after posting them. I've changed my original one a bit.

You've got a good idea, and I'd support it if that would ultimately mean anything (see the last paragraph in my other post; after years here I've become rather pessimistic with this stuff).

My other point is that it's a good idea, but no matter what we won't be able to do anything that is enough to please the warmongers (love you guys) AND the skillers at the same time. Mostly because one side wants fights, and the other side doesn't. That's a pretty drastic divide. We need to come up with some way to deal with the underlying issue or else this isn't going to go away no matter what our requirements are.

By Ragingwealth on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Eregion2 @ February 24, 2009 08:07 pm)

I'm sorry, I habitually heavily edit most all my posts in the first five minutes after posting them. I've changed my original one a bit.

My point is though that it's a good idea, but no matter what we won't be able to do anything that is enough to please the warmongers (love you guys) AND the skillers at the same time. Mostly because one side wants fights, and the other side doesn't. That's a pretty drastic divide. We need to come up with some way to deal with the underlying issue or else this isn't going to go away no matter what our requirements are.

Well PvP'ers and Skillers coming to each others event is always good (Most of both sides do that).

The Mandatory PKRI's/Official RAW Wars are good, shouldn't go further than that because I know that a lot of skillers don't like PvP.

Combat raise is going to help out the PvP'ers and won't be harming nor helping the skillers for the most part. If there is something that is going to harm them then please do tell

I'm all up for adding a total level requirements so that the skillers don't feel left out if people want it so we don't get PvP'ers only

By Nick on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Ragingwealth @ February 24, 2009 02:41 pm)

It's no secret that a lot of WG members are like this right now:
Join up as low levels -> Average goes down -> Train up -> Average goes high -> Another low level joins -> Average goes down once again -> A high level or low level leaves -> Average same as the start.

Who cares about combat average though? It is all for show? It is a statistic and statistics can easily be wrong. You worry about what we look like to the clan community and how we look to them by what they see at first. If they don't see us as a "strong" clan because we have low requirements, then screw them. Let them war us and see how we do.

QUOTE (Ragingwealth)

We have to adapt our community so that it stands a chance, we currently don't. How many times have we stood our ground in a PvP trip? VERY rare, it's because when you have lots of low levels it's easy to get KO'ed (Sure high levels get KO'ed too but its a 300% more chance for low levels), which results in us getting CLEARED in 10 minutes if not less if we fight a clan SLIGHTLY stronger than us.

If you want to improve our tanking so we don't get KOed go get better recruits that know how to tank rather than ones that just have levels. Levels are nothing to experience.

Screw worrying about combat average. It doesn't show experience.

If I "well damn know" that I have to have mandatory training to join a clan, then I "well damn know" that I am not going to join the clan. Remember: You join a clan for pleasure and to have more fun, not to work your ass off to "look" better to the rest of the clan world because of a small little statistic.

QUOTE (Ragingwealth)

Now I have a question for you.
Why are you so against the idea, and give me a proper reason not one like 'Pmg it's gona kill the community and skilling@@@' (3 combat levels more than now, it surely isn't going to be killing the community?)

First of all don't try to say that I have not been giving you proper reasons. I have been giving thorough posts, so take it to make it look like I have been trying to say "'Pmg it's gona kill the community and skilling@@@'".

Anyways, your proposed increase puts too much stress on a regular intro that would be at 100 combat when his application is accepted. There may be a small effect with the increase of 3 combat levels, but it discourages the amount of applicants that we would get, so overall it decreases the amount of members that we would get. Just because they are a higher level does not mean that they are any more mature or any more experienced than a lower level. So yes, no improvement.

You suggest for people to AFK train or to train on common monsters, but there are people that do not like to do that. I train through Slayer. I know other WG members that train through Slayer and wouldn't want to have to work their asses off and have no life with slayer to just be in a clan. I joined WG because it was a clan with everything; even though I like warring more than the rest, I still enjoy the benefits of being in a clan with everything. I joined at 100 combat, and if I saw that I had to gain 5 combat levels in a month along with the other requirements for graduation then I would have left and gone to another clan.

If you want to increase the requirements, make a required defense level. Don't increase the overall level expecting for our war performance to just dramatically increase because it won't. Not at all. Put more people in a war situation and encourage them to become better instead of forcing them to become better through training and working their asses off. As I said before, levels are nothing to experience.

So to put it in points for lazy readers:

You still didn't completely answer my question. Why do you want the increase? So we can look better to the clan community?

By Elyxiatic on 24/02/2009

The only reason ppl have a problem with it, is that they're inactive enough not to gain a few cmb lvls a month.

Edit: You all say experience is better than lvls.
Sure I agree.
But lvls also help.
2 tankers, one with 80 def + the other with 99 def, the same skill lvl.
The 99 def tank will always last longer simply cause he doesn't get hit more often.

Half of you complaining aren't even good at wars.
Maybe gain some cmb lvls + then you'll see the difference they make.
If you don't want to put that time into wg, then I seriously doubt your lack of dedication to this clan.

By Nick on 24/02/2009

Yeah because I am horrible at wars and I am inactive.

/sarcasm

By Elyxiatic on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Lefty2802 @ February 25, 2009 07:41 am)

Yeah because I am horrible at wars and I am inactive.

/sarcasm

You'd be better at them if you gained some lvls

By Colinwarrior on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Lefty2802 @ February 24, 2009 09:41 pm)

Yeah because I am horrible at wars and I am inactive.

/sarcasm

^^^

Lefty and I can outtank most of the 120s in this clan.

And Maths, seriously, just give it a rest. You being a dick isn't going to make anyone train. It just makes you a dick. We will train at our own pace, and you'll live with it or GTFO. So just shut the fuck up already.

By rachellove9 on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Mathsnerd18 @ February 24, 2009 04:30 pm)

The only reason ppl have a problem with it, is that they're inactive enough not to gain a few cmb lvls a month.

Half of you complaining aren't even good at wars.
Maybe gain some cmb lvls + then you'll see the difference they make.
If you don't want to put that time into wg, then I seriously doubt your lack of dedication to this clan.

Gary your showing your true side here. Thanks for having so much concern for the clan that you bash us for the lack of our war skills that "you" think we should have.

You have been so helpful to make people want to train with this attitude of the only good member is a level 120 that is a good war person. So your ultimate plan is to so judging towards others that they will be ashamed for not being to "your standards" and have to leave the clan.

Think whatever you want but the lower levels have a place here and your not intimidating us to train or to leave the clan.

You are flamebaiting.

By Chimpy on 24/02/2009

Nobody listens to Chimp! :<

So anyways, Chimp plan:

90-95+ FA: Still treated as part of our clan, just not in the clan. This is only for people who don't meet the reqs, those who do can just do the usual intro + app then trial period.

Level Req: 100-103+. Has 30-45 days to make it to 105 and become a full member.

Pns: BIIIIGGG

edit: maybe we can also look into doing some skill wars to appease some skillers instead of flaming?

By Elyxiatic on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Colinwarrior @ February 25, 2009 08:00 am)

We will train at our own pace, and you'll live with it or GTFO.

The thing is, you don't train fullstop.

By Chimpy on 24/02/2009

QUOTE (Mathsnerd18 @ February 24, 2009 06:52 pm)

QUOTE (Colinwarrior @ February 25, 2009 08:00 am)

We will train at our own pace, and you'll live with it or GTFO.

The thing is, you don't train fullstop.

Full stop?

<3

Read Chimp Plan!

By Eregion2 on 25/02/2009

QUOTE (Mathsnerd18 @ February 24, 2009 04:30 pm)

The only reason ppl have a problem with it, is that they're inactive enough not to gain a few cmb lvls a month.

The "problem" is that there are people in the clan who would prefer to spend their time leveling something else even when they're perfectly active. Think of combat and skilling like PE and Mathematics. Some people like both, but most will opt for one of the two at the expense of the other one. So for this analogy, skillers would rather do math (skilling) than PE (combat). THAT'S THE UNDERLYING DISAGREEMENT THAT WE HAVE TO ALLOW FOR NUBS! Making the entry-level requirements higher isn't going to transform skillers into sudden PE fanatics.

I don't care what anyone else says, this is exactly why I want sectors back (albeit fixed).

By VEPHYSAURAS on 25/02/2009

You know I really liked colonal's idea. A couple levels a month isn't quite so hard to do. We can be sneaky about it and have events designed to help this progression. Maybe make combat skill of the week a requirement. It fairly low exp in a week to gain for the lowest requirements. I think we shouldn't focus entirely on these arguements. We should compromise and discuss something that we can both agree with here. A long term plan on increasing combat but at people's leisure perhaps. It has to guarentee an increase though.

By Eregion2 on 25/02/2009

QUOTE (vephyrus @ February 24, 2009 07:00 pm)

Could it be a level OR a minimum amount of experience in that skill? That'd make it more even for the guys with +90 in all combat skills (assuming it's strictly att/def/str/hit).

By VEPHYSAURAS on 25/02/2009

If they have 90+ in most stats I doubt they need the training as much. I'm thinking more the minimum for everyone. The lower levels will slowly but sure catch up to everyone

We already have this event going on every week. It can be structure so everyone can get the exp they need.

By Chimpy on 25/02/2009

Or Chimp Plan

By VEPHYSAURAS on 25/02/2009

QUOTE (Chimp Guy0 @ February 24, 2009 07:05 pm)

Or Chimp Plan

Ya sure it's not my plan. It is everyone's plan I hope. We need a general agreement we can all come to. These arguements are all good but I think its coming to the point we need to decide something. We don't want to step on anyone's toes either. Please state your opinion and ideas on what you think you can agree too.

By Eregion2 on 25/02/2009

Give us back sectors and you warmongers (

) can do whatever you want.

// edit //

Think of the avalanche Elias let loose with one tiny poll topic, lawl.

By VEPHYSAURAS on 25/02/2009

I suggest a new topic to discuss an agreement we can all come to on combat. A way in which we can see an increase in levels guarenteed for the long term of the clan.

By Mmangler on 25/02/2009

When you get down to it, everyone plays rs for THEIR own entertainment whether that is skilling, warring or a combination. If you raise requiremtns and allow someone time to meet the requirement make sure that the time allocated is reasonable. Personally, I believe that you and you know who you are should offer encouragement to those of us who or not fortunate enough to have your warring skills. Offer us opportunities to enhance our skills. War skills that you profess a desire for everyone to have and not just host training where you show case your skills. Warring is a learned muscle memory and knowledge which is not available through NPC combat.

By Ragingwealth on 25/02/2009

I'm with David's idea as long as it's enforced properly.

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