9 Principles, 12 values

Party like its 1773.


There has been talk of rebellions, Modern-Day Tea Parties, and such.

Discuss.

www.the912project.com

No.

Glenn Beck

Where do you get thsi whole rebellion thing from though? Maybe ideologically but not physically L.

I don't think the 9-12 thing is gonna make the country do an about face but if everyone followed them I'd have to say the country would be a better place.

I need more context I think. What are we talking about again?

And have you recently read Empire by Orson Scott Card? Please say no...

I've heard of the unite or die political cartoon, but not really sure whats going on here...

Aaron you might want to tell people what you're talking about seeing as only I know. ;]

This is going to be harsh, because I think whoever came up with 9-12 is a moron.

OK, you know those weird "Evangelists" who take the Bible, disassemble with a jackhammer, then smack random pieces together with cement before swallowing and regurgitating them on live television and claiming they're making the world a better place? That's 9-12. They've taken various out-of-context quotes from important figures in American history and tried to use them to defend militia-like absurdities about how everyone on Capital Hill is an anti-Christian profligate and the American government is not worthy of the support of its citizenry.

The Nine Principles:

1. America Is Good.
   OK?
2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.
   The idiocy begins.
3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.
   Neat concept, except so far we have two "Principles" that have nothing to do with government and everything about what makes an (apparently) ideal American citizen.
4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.
   So you can beat your kids without getting arrested maybe?
5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.
   "Justice is blind"? That can't end well. Also, who's to enforce this justice, since the government evidently doesn't have the authority according to Principle 4.
6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
   Agreed, last I checked America wasn't Socialist OR Communist, thanks.
7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to.
   See above.
8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.
   So we're all allowed to share our personal opinions, oh wait! I forgot, according to Principles 2 and 3 I guess this would only include honest Christians. And apparently, the government should also be paying attention to the personal opinions of honest Christians. Screw everybody else.
9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.
   Way to lay railroad tracks for your ocean liner. However much we'd like to live in a world where we answer to no authority and subject entire nations to our own personal opinions, it's still an absurd ideal.

The Twelve Values:

1. Honesty You got it.
2. Reverence To who? God?
3. Hope In what? A future without a government?
4. Thrift Honest Christians are the only ones smart enough to grasp this.
5. Humility Except when dealing with your government.
6. Charity Except dealing with anyone who has less than you do.
7. Sincerity Because it's the perfect excuse for acting like a nincompoop.
8. Moderation Of what? Everything you'll have when the government is gone?
9. Hard Work For what? We're all doomed.
10. Courage To do what? Besides keep living when we all know we're doomed.
11. Personal Responsibility In regards to what? Ourselves I guess.
12. Gratitude For what? Oh right, to you for opening my eyes to your perfect government ideals.

People who feel powerless take out their frustration like this. The government doesn't do enough. The government does too much. The government shouldn't have any power over me. The government should better enforce the justice system. The government shouldn't tell me I can't speak what I think. The government should shut people up who don't think what I think. The government shouldn't tell me what to do. The government should tell my neighbors what to do because they damn well aren't listening to me.

All they really do is undermine society while claiming the perfect defense of intrinsic, Euro-Christian ideals. If you want to understand the foundations of our government to make actual informed assertions, read the Constitution. Then read the Bill of Rights. Then read the Federalist. Then read the Anti-Federalist. And then keep reading, because this guy didn't read and he deserves a specialty golf club delivered to his windshield.



All in regards to having an interesting forum debate of course. Thoughts?

Zeitgeistmovie.com, theres 2 parts each are 2-3 hours in length. They are full length movies about the way the world works and why it is slowing crashing down all around us unless we do something now. It also features a bit on religion and conspiracy, but those aren't the important parts. Watch the Addendum if you really want to see what's going on.

Well I'm a Christian and I don't go around thinking that those who don't agree with me about it are less of American Citizens or even that I am any better than anyone else. I probably am harder on myself because I know that I sin almost everyday.

The questions you answer have the wrong answers from my point of view so I will share my responses that I feel are better suited to them.

America Is Good.
Of course it is. We help more all over the world from the private sector than any other country. That is not even including what OUR government is willing to do.

I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.
True Statement. Even though we are America we have many religions with many different gods. Some people believe in Buda or maybe their Bank Statement or their God of Food and Glutten. The Statement is general enough that any person can think as they want. That is why we are America after all.

I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.
That to me is saying we all fall short on honesty at times and it is good to try harder. Improving is what is important.

The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government. I grew up in a loving home where my parents were always the supreme authority over the household. That meant if school said I could wear a mini skirt 8 inches up from my knee but my dad said it was to short. I had to listen to my dad. A lot of complex things need to be decided in the home and the government needs to keep out of it.

If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it. according to Principle 4, they are talking about within the dynamics of their own home and family. That doesn't mean my Dad has the right to shoot you if you do bad stuff to me. The authority is different in this statement.

I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results. This one I agreed with you Sam.
Agreed, last I checked America wasn't Socialist OR Communist, thanks.
I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to.

It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion. Freedom of speech is a founding principal in this country. No where does it say that your color or religion or education or sex or lifestyle choice or anything else makes you not worthy to do this.

The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.
The government does work for us, but it is a check and balance thing. We have to pay taxes as our answering to them. Everyone has to do their part.

I think that your way of veiwing life from a distance may be interfering with the good of what they are saying. It is not flawless like any plan or idea. It just needs to make America take a second look at their own heart and change what is needed to be a better country. I personally don't trust politicians. Maybe what the first year or two but eventually they get to much into themselves and get sidetracked from serving the American people. They start serving themselves.

I've been doing some reading. I'm not sure I like Jon Stewart any more than Glenn Beck, but I'm going to quote him when he said: "Finally, a guy who says what people who aren't thinking are thinking" (underline added). Beck isn't some average American, he's a Political Commentator. He FEEDS on this stuff and intentionally uses it to make people passionate about what HE wants them to be passionate about. From what I've read I might actually like this guy, I'm not sure. But I definitely do NOT like him passing off the 9/12 Project as following in the footsteps of our Founding Fathers, because it isn't.

Here's the original 28 Principles:

• Principle 1 - The only reliable basis for sound government and just human relations is Natural Law.
• Principle 2 - A free people cannot survive under a republican constitution unless they remain virtuous and morally strong.
• Principle 3 - The most promising method of securing a virtuous people is to elect virtuous leaders.
• Principle 4 - Without religion the government of a free people cannot be maintained.
• Principle 5 - All things were created by God, therefore upon him all mankind are equally dependent, and to him they are equally responsible .
• Principle 6 - All mankind were created equal.
• Principle 7 - The proper role of government is to protect equal rights, not provide equal things.
• Principle 8 - Mankind are endowed by God with certain unalienable rights.
• Principle 9 - To protect human rights, God has revealed a code of divine law.
• Principle 10 - The God-given right to govern is vested in the sovereign authority of the whole people.
• Principle 11 - The majority of the people may alter or abolish a government which has become tyrannical.
• Principle 12 - The United States of America shall be a republic.
• Principle 13 – A Constitution should protect the people from the frailties of their rulers.
• Principle 14 - Life and liberty are secure only so long as the rights of property are secure .
• Principle 15 - The highest level of prosperity occurs when there is a free-market economy and a minimum of government regulations.
• Principle 16 - The government should be separated into three branches.
• Principle 17 - A system of checks and balances should be adopted to prevent the abuse of power by the different branches of government.
• Principle 18 - The unalienable rights of the people are most likely to be preserved if the principles of government are set forth in a written Constitution.
• Principle 19 - Only limited and carefully defined powers should be delegated to government, all others being retained by the people.
• Principle 20 - Efficiency and dispatch require that the government operate according to the will of the majority, but constitutional provisions must be made to protect the rights of the minority.
• Principle 21 - Strong local self-government is the keystone to preserving human freedom.
• Principle 22 - A free people should be governed by law and not by the whims of men.
• Principle 23 - A free society cannot survive as a republic without a broad program of general education.
• Principle 24 - A free people will not survive unless they stay strong.
• Principle 25 - "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations -- entangling alliances with none."- Thomas Jefferson, given in his first inaugural address.
• Principle 26 - The core unit which determines the strength of any society is the family; therefore the government should foster and protect its integrity.
• Principle 27 - The burden of debt is as destructive to human freedom as subjugation by conquest.
• Principle 28 - The United States has a manifest destiny to eventually become a glorious example of God's law under a restored Constitution that will inspire the entire human race.

Here's Glenn Beck's version, annotated:

1. America Is Good. Principle 28: "The United States has a manifest destiny to eventually become a glorious example of God's law under a restored Constitution that will inspire the entire human race."
2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life. Principle 4: "Without religion the government of a free people cannot be maintained." Principle 5: "All things were created by God, therefore upon him all mankind are equally dependent, and to him they are equally responsible."
3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday. Principle 2: "A free people cannot survive under a republican constitution unless they remain virtuous and morally strong." Principle 3: "The most promising method of securing a virtuous people is to elect virtuous leaders." Principle 24: "A free people will not survive unless they stay strong."
4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government. Principle 14: "Life and liberty are secure only so long as the rights of property are secure." Principle 26: "The core unit which determines the strength of any society is the family; therefore the government should foster and protect its integrity."
5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it. Principle 22: "A free people should be governed by law and not by the whims of men."
6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results. Principle 6: "All mankind were created equal." Principle 7: "The proper role of government is to protect equal rights, not provide equal things." Principle 8: "Mankind are endowed by God with certain unalienable rights." Principle 20: "Efficiency and dispatch require that the government operate according to the will of the majority, but constitutional provisions must be made to protect the rights of the minority."
7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable. See Above.
8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion. See below.
9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me. Principle 10: "The God-given right to govern is vested in the sovereign authority of the whole people." Principle 11: "The majority of the people may alter or abolish a government which ha become tyrannical." Principle 13: "A constitution should protect the people from the frailties of their rulers." Principle 18: "The unalienable rights of the people are most likely to be preserved if the prniciples of government are set forth in a written constitution." Principle 19: "Only limited and carefully defined powers should be delegated to government, all others being retained by the people." Principle 21: "Strong local self-government is the keystone to preserving human freedom."

Now I'm going to be an ass and tell you those 28 Principles weren't compiled until 1981. "Source: over 150 volumes of the Founding Fathers original writings, minutes, letters, biographies, etc. distilled into The Five Thousand Year Leap, by W. Cleon Skousen, published by the National Center for Constitutional Studies, 1981." Way to go Beck! The principles you've further refined are indeed from the writings of the Founding Fathers, twice removed, twice annotated, twice rewritten, and twice regurgitated.

The Continental Congress didn't come together and write a Treatise of 28 Principles, this is originally from a historian who delved through their papers and put together a list of what HE THOUGHT was important about what they thought was important in regards to his own book. He might be close, but Beck's basis is entirely on secondary, rather than primary, research. You might also notice that Beck himself invented a few, while completely ignoring others. (Ex: In Beck's Principle 4, none of the 28 Principles talk about giving parents the authority to tell the government to GTFO in their own house).

"28 Principles" Ignored:

• Principle 1: The only reliable basis for sound government and just human relations is Natural Law.
• Principle 9: To protect human rights, God has revealed a code of divine law.
• Principle 12: The United States of America shall be a republic.
• Principle 15: The highest level of prosperity occurs when there is a free-market economy and a minimum of government regulations.
• Principle 16: The government should be separated into three branches.
• Principle 17: A system of checks and balances should be adopted to prevent the abuse of power by the different branches of government.
• Principle 23: A free society cannot survive as a republic without a broad program of general education.
• Principle 25: Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations -- entangling alliances with none.
• Principle 27: The burden of debt is as destructive to human freedom as subjugation by conquest.

That is, if you give them any credence at all. Like I said, if you want to be informed, hit the primary resources. I was amazed when I started reading the Anti-Federalist, I think if I were around in 1783 I would have been one of them. But yeah, what Beck's concocted has nothing to do with 1773 from my point of view, it's just more media drivel.

Except for the 12 Values, they are somewhat based on what was originally written by Benjamin Franklin. He wrote them in 1730 when he was in his 20s, when he was writing his newspaper/almanac. Actually, there were 13 values, not 12. For claiming that everything from the Founding Fathers' pens is literal scripture for our government, he sure took some liberties with it.

1. Temperance.
2. Order.
3. Resolution.
4. Frugality.
5. Moderation.
6. Industry.
7. Cleanliness.
8. Tranquility.
9. Silence.
10. Sincerity.
11. Justice.
12. Chastity.
13. Humility.

No idea where Beck got Reverence, Hope, or Gratitude (or literally Courage or Personal Responsibility). Maybe he's got a time machine, or maybe he felt that Temperance, Order, Resolution, Industry, Cleanliness, Tranquility, Silence, and Chastity are outdated and needed replacements. And a good thing he made the list 12 instead of 13, think of all the readers he might have lost if he used such an unlucky number!

Glenn Beck is an imbecile. I come home from school every day and watch him and other crap on FOX News just for laughs.

You want some good morals and ideals. Go read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn and watch Religulous by Bill Maher. 1984 is classic too although it has nothing to do with this really (except anti-capitalism ftw).

I'll expand if anyone wants me to and when I get home to my normal computer that doesn't suck balls.