Do I Need to Step Down

Voting is anonymous. Don't feel scared to vote yes.

An inactive leader means an inactive clan.
What sort of serious clan leader is retired from Runescape?
If this clan wants to go forward it needs an active leader.
We have some choices...

I can step down and replace myself with an existing council member (but apart from Glenn, who is himself rather busy and unable to take full leadership) the council is extremely new and we don't know how long they'll last.

Or we could kill two birds with one stone, merge with a similar sized clan, and give them full leadership under the name WG (mostly for the sake of our website and such).

Or wait about 3-4 weeks until my Uni ends, followed by about 6 weeks of free time to repair WG... but in the meantime we're going to get worse.

Or close... not gonna happen.

________________________________________

This is an unprecedented situation we have,
Never before have we been unable to rebuild.
D-Day was not as bad as this. At least we recovered.
We can't recover form this like I wanted us to.
The leaders have taken every angle.

We're down to a few options:
- Merge.
- Lower the requirements and standards, opening up to possible spies (the least of our concerns atm).
- Change the leadership and regain activity that way.
- Steal members from smaller clans (unethical, and a last resort)
- Keep going and just hope members will come our way.

It's come down to numbers. We can't have activity without more members.
Recruitment is EVERYTHING.

I have considered the third option. I want to know what you think.
I'd go down to an inactive founder rank rather than the current primary leader rank.

Voted

Maybe a temporary one, but I think it would be better if you were in the leadership position after Uni. Im definitely not in for a merge.

I still think we are able to recover. Theres ton of room for improvement both from leaders and members. We arent giving the best effort we can, and I know everyone can do better.

All we have to do is survive until summer, where things will inevitably be better activity-wise.

well, i think the main point is that even if we recruit the high possibility that members stay is slim. truly something is lacking here guys.

i have to say its enthusiasm.
there is no enthusiasm whatsoever

3-4 weeks until you become active again isn't too bad, WG can hold out until then IMO. Perhaps a temporary leader until then, but otherwise you are the best leader we've ever had, I couldn't imagine WG being led by someone else permanently.

I think we should give our new council time to launch some of their ideas for the clan before doing anything drastic.

My personal opinion is for you to take the inactive founder position for now, and when you are finished with Uni for the summer, take back the position as primary. The thing is, you are WG. We saw what happened when Abs was primary (no, I am not bashing Abs, he was great; WG just didn't have the drive that it seems to have with Gene was leading).

We have new council, we have new members, we have new people all together. If spies are not a worry then I have an opinion, but I will keep that disclosed for a while.

Don't merge, as that is something that you don't want to do. The loyal members of WG will not feel WG if someone new came up and took control. It just wouldn't happen and WG would break into 2 clans. Merging is not the answer unless a group of members from a dead clan all joined WG. PE for example... talk to the members/leaders there. They just died and they need a clan.

I believe that is all for now. Recruitment needs to increase, but we all have to face it... RuneScape is not what it used to be, nor is the clan world. There are problems going around throughout many clans. It is not just WG. Stick it out. I am sure we can pull out.

we just got three new fresh members and two just graduated y stop now..

just finish uni and get 6 weeks to repair wg..im sure u can hold it in till then.

No
Just
No
Take a hiatus, and call us in the summer.
There would be nothing left if you left, you have a huge impact on this clan active or not.
Loosing the amout of respect you command as leader, and as a prominant leader in the clan world isn't worth it.
See you in six weeks.

My vote goes to being buttbuddies with zero tolerance. We should really get going with them and start taking p2p pking seriously. I think if we combine our fairly weak forces together we can do the big teams some justice, which will also earn us the recognition we need. I think the problem with getting up off the ground is knowing when to commit into the "big leauges," if we go too early we get slaughtered, if we go to late people get bored and leave which just happened. Let's find our balance and get going

As for stepping down, I believe that being a leader includes the ability to know when to retire. Know one knows your schedule as well as you so... You've been the leader for a very long time and replacing you would be no easy task. You have a great team of council behind you so there's not much need to worry. I would say wait it out.

All we need to do is stick it out leaving. However, we DO need to take action until then to try to improve. We can't just let things go as they have been; something needs to happen to keep us together until we can start to rebuild.

for one, stay no matter what.

the fact that people have moved on has made it more appealing to go than to stay.and you can't blame them. why work to get this clan better when other clans are already ahead and successful. at least now this can be a test of who truly are wg believers and are here to stick it out in the good as well as in the bad. =D

as for improving..i'll leave the council to deal with the bulk =D

No, I say stick it out for a month. We will hold together and we will regroup. Everyone has to start recruiting and we should get some positive momentum going forward. I think p2p raids would help a lot too. The last one I was at was excellent.

I say you should step down until your Uni is done and you're able to commit to WG. In the meantime, appoint someone from the Council to take the Primary Leader position. Have the Council appoint 1-3 new interm Council members to help with everything. No election - the Council chooses who is best. The positions wouldn't be permanent, just until you're able to come back.

I know it's not exactly the best option because that would mean more people would have access to vital information, but I think we need a broad leadership. More leaders means more structure, more communication.

I think that would be a pretty decent interm solution to our troubles.

Keep the current system, wait out until your Uni ends, along with a lot of people's exam periods, I know a lot of people will come back during around Mid-June, to runescape, and Wg.

Merging will suck, replacing you will also just not work.
Keep trying to recruit, if we get a few members every week or so, then I'm sure by June we can pull this around.

~Abs

WG without His Lordship isn't WG, therefore i wait, no matter what it takes. You leaving would cause a real leaving spree and i can't say i wouldn't be one of them.

NO

1. Take the weeks you need off and give primary to either George or BTO. Even though BTO may seem new to council he has been around a long time and is truly a good leader. Not sure what is going on for George or him in rl but both of them are very capable.

2. Don't even think about letting another clan come in and bring their leader in as primary. Do you want mass leavings? If someone comes in that gets a bit of power hungry, we would have huge problems.

3. We need to be Kissing ZT and getting to know them. I used to hang out with them when I first joined WG and really they were nice back then. Raid with them and start inviting them to all our stuff. If we would get to know them then maybe we could respect their leaders and it would seem like a merge. Choice like 5 of WG members and send them into their IRC channel to make friends.

4. Recruiting is very important to us right now, but realize that schools all have finals. So make new friends that you can recruit in June. We will know them better too. Start added to your friends list and just say something to them every now and then.

5. Choose someone to help council. You decide who and what they will work on but get them someone to help while your gone. I see it as important to have someone in the red all the time in IRC. It just is more motivating for a lot of people to go to events. Make it a trial or temporary position. We need active leadership in IRC. Even if they are not council members. Create a new forum for them or give them access to lvl 3.

I think Colin just leaving was a huge blow to you Gene. I know it was for me. It's hard to watch your friends leaving and I'm sure even harder to see WG not being what you know we can succeed at.

My quote

I dont feel scared to vote NO, i believe you are the best leader for WG.

We should just wait until all of us would possibly sometime have more free time. Maybe the marge would be a good idea... what about TDM ? i think they have also problems with "numbers" or am i wrong ?

Just wanted to say I voted 'Yes' simply because for the time being it's probably the best thing for you Gene, and for WG. If you just take the Founder rank for these few weeks, you relieve yourself of the pressures. Sure, you'll feel them, and still feel the responsibility and the obligation. The thing is you need to take care of yourself first, Uni is important.

Appoint a Council to take your place for just the time you're gone, and then resume command when you've got the time again. Simple. Not a resignation, just a short hiatus.

Bam's right about people leaving. We love having Gene around to much and the idea of him gone forever is so bleak. It would be like being alive barely with no heart and using some machine for the heart. It can be done but not for long and not very well. Taking chances of death and infection. Best way to compare I think.

I gotta be on honest, i really have lost my will to play Rs, i merely attend events that i can i don't really log on for anything else as the game requires too much of my time, and after recently being promoted in work, going out with the Gf, spending time with my m8's, all i have time for is popping on for the events, i don't have time to train as i use to.

And i really dunno what you should do, Less ppl seem to be playing Rs for clans these days or that could just be my view.

W/e is decided i hope it's for the best.

I voted

I like the merger idea, on the condition that the clan we merge with has similar levels as well as size. No point in merging with a similar sized weaker clan.





Lordy leaving is a bad idea though - I'm sorry, but a WG without lordy ISN'T WG.

I voted 'Yes' in terms of you just backing off until Uni ends in 3-4 weeks. Until then, appoint council to take charge. We have more leaders now, and i think we can hold it off. I don't want to sound pushy, but you are the one that can bring us back. You always have been, and so we have to wait it our until you come back to flourish like we always have in the past.

Seriously, a merge is the biggest NO I have ever given to a proposition. I agree with the majority, stick it out until you have 6 weeks to repair WG. WG can look after itself until then, you sort yourself out before sorting us out.

Vote, you are the face of WG and we can wait.

I always liked when you held the founder rank, appointed another primary leader (I'm thinking of when you did this with Abs) and stay involved with the clan, just not hold the 'primary leader' rank. You can come back to activity when you have the time for it.

Do what you think is best for yourself in this situation, no one can make that decision but you. If you have to leave, even for awhile, turn it over to the council. It's their job and I'm sure they have the initiative to handle it (even if they don't it'll be a learning experience for the whole clan; if everything disbands just because you're gone for awhile then we're already way past screwed).

^^^ I agree with Wayne completely.

I would rather see WG close than merge with another clan. It would not be WG then.
Gene, you have had bouts of inactivity but we always knew you were there.
You are what defines WG and makes us what we are without you its not the same.

I voted no. I would suggest that you do a duo-leader thing rather than quitting.

Remember what happened last time you officially 'threw in the towel'? I had to talk you out of retirement, because WG was even worse than it is now. I refuse to have todo that again.
Listen to an old friend. Take founder, till your holiday. Have a break. We will survive without you. We have before. Although barely. Have a break. Have a kitkat.
If we merge. I can pretty much guarentee Our ML from now will half. If not more. Noone will want to stay if we merge. We are Wilderness Guardians. Not Zero tolerance guardians or whatever. WG wouldnt be the same. And you know it.

We shall talk about this more.

I say u stay lordy. and whoever said there isnt enough enthusiam hasnt met me yet! i am back and full of excitement and enthusiam. maybe itll rub off on some of you

Right, I probably am in the worst of positions to voice any opinion that deserves any consideration, but an external & retrospective point of view can't do any harm as long as it is considered for what it is: highly likely to be outdated, not in phase with the current interests of the clan, but thus gaining at least one thing for itself... neutrality, lack of compassion.

Why do I allow myself to even think about posting? Simply because I have seen these questions concerning options for the future of WG come up frequently...

In other words, keeping the WG "taste" and sacrificing performance or even the existence of the clan, and on the other side, sacrificing this WG identity by conforming to a less tolerant, more performance-driven logic... and everything is summed up by the continuous conflict between Skills/Community and PvP, between raising requirements and keeping them accessible, between favouring elites and remaining open to people on a friendly basis, regardless of skill or no-lifing potential.

Also embodied in Gene's person as many of replies to topics like this show... Gene you started WG along an original code of values that go beyond simple performance, and in that WG is a very egalitarian clan in its principles, quite unique in the clanworld...

However it exposes WG to continuous torments - first, too much legislation, rules, frameworks, plans, projects which complexify the clan in its good-willed strive for equality & fairness... a most admirable objective which takes away from the clan's flexibility to adapt to events. Constantly new policy has to be defined, polls set up to ensure democracy etc etc and running a clan which has ran like WG, without the person who has in his head the precise idea of what "WG" should stand for, is tremendously complicated.

Because after all, Eugene is the person which WG trusts to think well independantly from polls or debate, because he set the guidelines as WG was created and grew year after year.
With Eugene here, it is easy and reasonable, more efficient, to trust in the values WG promotes - Eugene can bypass democracy, often for the best because it ensures swift action... very efficient in slump situation, as WG's history shows. It has the downturn of creating drama, as WG's history shows as frequently.

Where am I going with all this?
WG is simply very linked to Gene's person, through its originality and simply the way it grew - always following his guidelines. When WG started to move too far away from compassion towards performance, the ones thirsting for more action, more clan power, more efficiency & armed success, those would either leave to heavy PKing clans or were booted or left one way or the other, as WG never operated a radical & permanent change towards performance/elites... the loyal stay of course, this notion of core Gene puts forth throughout the ages.

But this unending cycle of members joining and leaving, of growth through recruitment, then slump through leavings and inactivity which results of WG's peculiar nature has also made the clan live too long.

WG will always be WG, especially with Gene at its helm. If one aspires to a fast growing clan with high activity rates, high turnouts, a certain "hype" clan on RSC where clanless 120s decide to join because of the cool name... that isn't possible with the name "Wilderness Guardians", because this name is either too old, or has too much identity, history attached to it.

If WG was to undergo a radical change and live, I absolutely have no advice other than keep Eugene, because in effect, or at least what I have seen, WG can only stick to be the WG most of us desire with Eugene's will behind it... polls or no polls, when WG drifts away or even seems to be in danger, there will be a reaction and a radical change, because Eugene has the legitimity to do things.

Now if WG was to "die", I would only suggest everybody go his way.

WG has always been a particular composite grouping of people who cooperate towards something rather vague, and that's what kind of makes the charm of the clan: the few times where clan-wide "objectives" were set, they were perfectly futile to how people behaved... we always strove for a "good" clan, a human clan, a clan that is not understandable to many in the clan community... a merger would not work. Too many people here have their way, we have too many exceptions, or rather, an exception for every exceptional person we discover among us. And again, the only thing WG retains to itself however the amount of people who turn up to raids, is this tight knit "core", and a palette of values we all adhere to.

Under another banner, this identity would be lost, I'm pretty sure. If this identity is to stay, keep Lordy. But be assured that this identity will be a barrier to becoming a "Top Clan" and staying there.

The only way to do that would eventually be to cristallize the name in a grave by closing WG, and starting afresh, with a new set of objectives & credos, a new founder, and most likely a community restricted to the most active & skilled... that's the manner in which clans rise fast. If they're very lucky, they'll stay high. If they're among the most, they'll fail after a while and dislocate.

WG is somewhat the same, except it never changes name, only its members. How many batches of 500 could the "All WG Ever" list hold?

...but it is my guess not many want this, except the few frustrated advocates of zero tolerance, who would've created a breakoff a long time ago if their friends weren't all here, or if Eugene had died or never existed...

I was once one of these persons, but realized it would be impossible to keep the bonds which link Guardians together, without the Wilderness before them.

You don't sound very French...
Welcome back to our boards.
I've missed you mate.
I'm really glad to hear from you!

Oh I've always been lurking around.

Nicely said and as always very well thought out! Like Gene, I have missed you too!

Way to bump this 9 month old topic guys.