15 hour pkris?

Ok, serious debate time. First, inb4 you can't afford it, because I can. Second, inb4 WG can't handle it, because we don't want to. Now, for the topic.

Someone explain how sitting all day in front of a computer determines one clan's dominance over another. Matched wars take skill, tactic, and leadership to win, but to win a pkri all you need is a rather large bank and some energy drinks. Usually pkris are "won" after a clan withdraws, but the winner should be clear from the start - who has a bigger memberlist and who has more rune.

I'm missing the point why top clans refuse to take part in the RAW list and would rather spend their entire day returning to finish at the same place they started, except with less rune and more flames on RSC. Like I said, matched ops would require more skill because you are proving skill.

Runescape. Discuss.

Well Randy... Now a days, people think the higher level you are and the more money you have, the cooler you are. It's kinda the opposite of real life. So when someone has mils to blow, and has the time to return for 15 hours, it just shows how "cool" you are. It's not really the dominance factor. It's more the "Fuck life, lets Scape" attitude.

oh, and... first post fuckers.

Excellent point Randy, I happen to agree.

Something I don't get is warring in the pvp worlds when you can war in the clan wars arena beside you get dp and maybe an item.

Uncapped is just a test of who can outlast...

Matched people need to actually focus on. You can't just be like "hey I died, back to the warzone."

I completely agree. I don't like PKRIs and I can't handle any that go over 1-2 hours. It takes a special kind of stupid to sit in your mom's basement for 15 hours doing the exact same thing over and over again. Go out, get a job, find a girlfriend, etc...you're pathetic if you do that 15-hour PKRI shit

If Afro ever starts doing 10+ hour run-ins, I'm gone. (slim-to-none chance that it will..so I'm not worried..lol)

these long run-ins determine the average clan from the good clans
i remember when cor were sitting 9th once, they had a lengthy run in with ds or someone and even though they lost they went straight up to 4th.

One of the many reasons top clans are not very fun.

The thing is, a 5 hour or so PKRI is understandable in my opinion, well to some degree. After 5 hours, you are just wasting time, money, and life. I mean I enjoy RuneScape... trust me.. I do. I also enjoy warring, but when I am on RuneScape for 5 hours in one sitting, it is a bit sad and I want to go visit the real life, get some water, take a piss, and fucking eat. I am not going to be a hog and sit in my room secluded for a quarter of a day UNLESS it is in the middle of the night when everything and everyone in my area is asleep.

The ranks now a days are not stable at all. One clan has excuses to blame on the other, and then another one flames back, and then it grows into a clusterfuck, and then half the clan world is in it. It is all useless drama that some people take heart to heart, because quite frankly, I believe they spend way too much time on this game caring about e-people whom they may never even see the real picture of. PKRI'ing for near to 10 hours or more proves nothing but no life and a lack of self-control and self-discipline. The only people that I can somewhat excuse are those in the time-zone where they stay up for half the night, and even then, 10 hours is too much.

I concur, the true reason is...
It's a pissing contest, who has the bigger penis, who's daddy can beat up who's.
The only way to argument is to keep arguing till the other person/clan realizes they have way better things to do then engage in a pointless argument.

Well, i agree. Rankings should be based on matched fights.

But unless everyone agreed on it, then it wont happen, as there will always be one clan that will refuse to participate and claim wins *cough*VR*cough*

The only reason i stay at PKRI's for over 2 hours, is for the free gps.

Anyway, a long PKRI, such as 6 hours, shows the detication of your members, what they will do for their clan. but 15 hours is overboard

It makes the game more realistic.

Back in the middle ages everyone arose from the dead, collected their supplies of armour and seafood from the bank and returned to fight.

Matched does take more skill. I don't get the whole 6 hour or 15 hour pkri. Its more a war of attrition than actually skill. I don't understand why top clans want to waste 10+ more hours when they can resolve a fight in 1/10th that time. They are just way too afriad to lose and compensate by having a large bank to blow for 10 hours hoping just to wear the other guy down. Silly.

Lengthy competitions like this might be better for skilling or something. Lol. Then we can measure how much more you no life efficiently in experience in game =P

actually..pkri requires more skill..

if u can stay alive then ur good..if u die constantly u better run.

like some guys said..its about who can outlast the other..so place some heat on the other group

This is why p2p multi wins.

1) You simply can't drag a fight out for 15 hours. DI could probably last that long but no other clan in runescape could last for 5 hours in p2p multi 1 on 1 vs DI.
2) 1 hour in p2p multi is like 4 or 5 in f2p. It's so fast paced and takes 30 seconds to return.
3) The varied styles, Armour and tactical maneuvers in p2p far outshine those used in f2p. P2P becomes a spread territory battle and you have to force your way into your opponents territory. They aren't all fallen in and relatively safe behind one poor leader who's about to get one hit, like f2p.
4) P2P requires everyone to use their own initiative and combat kill to stay alive and inflict damage.

F2P clans aren't that rich at all, 100 rune sets looks a lot but it's only 20m. The best p2p multi melee weapon costs 25m (zgs, not ags, zgs spec is more beneficial) and every death costs 200-450k. My deaths are usually about 350k each.

F2P is for lemmings that want to follow their leader around all night and click when he tells you to click, eat when he tells you to eat basically do as you're told. P2P is for men that work together as equals in the midst of a fight to come out on top.

A couple of months back TT stepped up and gave us a P2P multi fight. They lasted for about 2 minutes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hOKkfcwHag
Notice how TT just stand there trying to get piles and fallins, treatng it like an F2P fight. All the while DI are spread in their "base" to the east. What they should have done is counter rush back into us, gone straight through us and started attacking from the back working east.

F2P is for those that don't posess the skills to P2P. Nuff said.

A clan shouldn't be determined by how long their members can be on lol. It just shows you that the clan that won has the most no-lifers and has nothing better to do in the world than spend all day playing with pixels. If you use a computer too much then there will be some effects that are probaly not good.

I really cant imagine returning like that. Personally, I dont mind losing sets and I have a pretty decent bank to support me. I would not want to stay in front of a computer doing the same mindless fall-ins and piles for a couple of hours. Tops I'd stay for is probably 4 hours.

In matched fights, usually some people will get cut. Also, people won't be able to return, so once you're done, you're done. Thats one of the reasons why I liked matched fights; a couple of "skilled" people can change the course of the entire fight.

The way the current clans of F2P are going, its basically the same thing every week. Same people congratzing each other. Same people flaming each other. Maybe you switch it up with a different opponent each week, but in the end, you fight the same clan again. Maybe this time you'll win or lose but it doesnt matter, cause you'll probably fight them next week too.

But yea, I agree with Stoke completely. P2P relies so much more on the individuals and tactics. It's not just a battleground where you can walk all over the place; you have to be smart, and you have to know when to do what. A leader can only do so much in p2p; the result will often depend on the individuals themselves.

It's been like 4 fights that has lasted close to 15 hours for the last 2 years lol..

Firstly, I would like to state that your not in a top clan so you don't know how enjoyable PKRI's are whether they are 1 hour to 10 hours. If you'd actually try it, it proves how good a clan is because it shows how dedicated their members are. The more dedicated your members are the better your clan.

And to Stoke, Di dont step into F2P because they get wrecked and mass snipe. F2P is way different to P2P, F2p takes more skill.

P2P nowadays is full of 1 itemers and it depends on how bulky your bank is. I hope DI enjoy massing up and walking around for no reason

RS PVP sucks, I don't understand how anyone can possibly enjoy it for 5 minutes much less 15 hours.

P2P sucks balls. If you ever took part in a 10 hour run in, you'd know why others enjoy doing it. Until then, don't mock it. Oh and another thing, why waste your numbers in matched opts fights? Say you pull 100 to a matched, and the other clan pulls 40, that's a waste of 60 people. I know how much it annoys people when they have to sit back and watch the fight after they get cut.

If a clan has to match to your number, the person being matched to has immediately lost in clan-vs-clan respect, as you're basically handicapping the other clan in order to come in with a shot.

PKRIs are the only way to determine a clans full dominance. The fact that they sometimes go on for multiple hours is irrelivant. It's just how long it takes for the true winner to become apparent.

Typical post from a typical person who typically doesn't know what he's talking about. No Offence

~Mugger84

Buwahahaha silly r00nskip.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg231/G...ipropaganda.jpg

Edit: Stretching page = fail

Why do DF members come to WG forums patronizing DF

Because the forums are pretty much dead without us?

Not really

I don't have to back it up. It's my opinion. And seriously, you say we should give you a fight. Why? DI are always expecting us to come into P2P to give them a good fight. I've seen several topics where DI have fought DF in P2P, but when was the last time DI had the balls to fight us on OUR home ground for a change?

Oh yeah, and nice job turning a topic about 10 Hour run-ins into how DI is better than DF in P2P. That much was obvious months ago, so no one gives a shit anymore.

Ex-members are reminded to be respectful.
Every topic so far has turned into DI vs DF. Put aside your fucking differences and focus on what makes us similar.

We were all Wilderness Guardians at one time, and we all considered each other our comrades and friends. We all enjoyed something together when we were WG. It was a time that most can be proud of. After becoming an ex-member, are you so easy to throw away your old clothes just because of the different paths we took? Have you guys already forgot where you've come from? We were all friends, and the mere politics of conflicting CLANS should NEVER affect the friendship and unity we used to have.

Being an ex-member gives you a chance to still be in touch with your old friends. It is not a right, it is a privilege.

I have been very lenient against ex-members. You guys are still friends to me. But I'm not going to take the crap that certain ex-members have been spewing anymore.

Drop the crap. Two One ex-member have already been suspended while another who thought it would be funny to test me has been banned. The first one is awaiting further punishment. From now on, we are cracking down. It is ridiculous that we have to babysit you guys. No more sly sneaky flamebaits. No longer is WG going to be harmed by ex-members quarrels. You start, you're done.

I have generally labled the ex-members as trouble, but that is only a small minority. The majority of you are still good friends to WG, and you have nothing to worry about.

About damn time BTO..

ILU

Seriously, these our WG forums not your forums, get off your horse, you are on OUR forums not the other way around.

Fuck you cutting off the DI post at "So here's what we're going to do"

Practical response to original debate.

Normal wars (which I prefer) already test a lot, like the clan's skill, organisation, strength, numbers and so. Extended PK Run-Ins are like a level up, because they incorporate other factors based heavily around time: How much money you can make/rune sets you can afford to lose, how fast you can return to fight, and most importantly how much time you can dedicate to your clan.

It's like the Triple Whopper (Extended PKRI) next to the Big Mac (Wars).

Some clans might find it too much to handle, others prefer to stick with the traditional and practical way of warring. Even though I admire the amount of effort it takes to win an Extended PKRI, taking into account it is an online game in the end I think the time and effort is just not worth it. Especially nowadays when all you get is bragging rights.

~

I agree with Stoke. There is a MASSIVE difference in skill and experience required in P2P from F2P. In F2P there are pretty much 3 different basic combinations of gear (Unless you hybrid), and the war is won over by the clan who has the best skill most of the time: Their defence knows how to tank/hug/drag and their offence knows how to pile or snipe. That's pretty much it.

In P2P, position, tactics, location and many other factors come into it and the sheer amount of warfare available makes it not about numbers or levels anymore. In my experience a P2P clan with 5 members would be wiped out by a clan of 50 in F2P 100% guaranteed, but in P2P their chances of winning a fight could be raised to 20-30%. I've yet to experience a P2P fight of an intensity that the top clans have, so I'll leave it there.

~

hmm, good job council doing something about these flames, even though they are my friends, they shouldnt turn every topic into DF vs DI.

my p.o.v is that P2P is more for individual talent, while F2P is group talent.

in P2P, you rely on each member being able to hold their rank, while F2P, everyone has to work together to win.

Really, it's up to you whether you prefer F2P or P2P, personally, I dislike P2P, due to the one itemers and NH pkers. Sure, we have the same problem in F2P, but it's not as bad, and it doesn't make F2P unbearable.

Just an opinion really. And we are WAY off topic here. This topic started off discussing long PKRI's, and now it's about F2P vs P2P. What's up with that?

Randy can you come on IRC please for just a minute?

Hi guys, just like to thank Lordy for unbanning me.

I'd like to retract this statement (the one about forums being dead), I did not mean it
Sorry.

That is all.

Welcome to runescape!

How some of you Df people are acting on these forums is starting to make me feel embarrased. Sorry guys, but you do :$.

You can't compare the two, F2P and P2P, simply because your comparison would be invalid as they're totally different:

F2P:

Your win relies on your ability to demoralize the other clan to make them call if off when it comes to top clans fighting out, because on such high options and weak F2P weapons there is no way for you to clear them.

Demoralizing them is very, very simple to type out but hard to preform ingame:

• You need to maintain your numbers no matter what so that they get demoralized from your clan's dedication.
• You need to be able to transition on their snipers like mad and actually KO them, it gives a space for your hybrids and fall in leaders to breathe, boosting morale.
• Your warlord needs to be on the top of his game and always calm, also needs to know when to get you out of GDS and when to tell you to tank into GDS, so that you can maintain your advantage
• Your snipers NEED to be skilled enough to wreck their hybrids & fall in leaders and not get dropped by the anti snipers or get KO'ed by getting piled. If all snipers tank like mad then there is no way the other clan will win unless your main pile is weak.
• A good combination of a main pile, snipers, anti snipers and fall in leaders is really important, if your combination is wrong then it can cost you the fight at times, seen it happen multiple times so far.

In reality, F2P requires some great team work ability. P2P Multi (Note, key word: Multi, not single since single really requires some great efforts) also requires team work, but on a smaller scale.

P2P:

You have the ability to clear your opponent by constantly clearing them out faster than they return since the weapons in P2P are much stronger.

• P2P gear used to be expensive when it comes to multi, but at the moment it's almost the same price of a melee + hybrid set combined in F2P for most P2P sets (With protect item on, that is).
• P2P Relies on skill as well, but it can also at times not rely on skill heavily. I.E Fighting in old school P2P rules is heavily dependant on organization, but fighting with mass barrages and chin chompas isn't really skill (My opinion that is, not really a fact).
• In P2P you can easily KO people who are decent at P2P tanking with 10 people at times depending on your weapons
• High number P2P fights aren't as dependant on organization as F2P, simply because you can call multiple piles and you get to kill them with few people, as opposed to F2P where you need at least 150 options to maintain a good KO rate.
• In P2P you can find in almost anywhere multi in the wild, whereas in F2P you kinda are stuck with the New Gate -> Spiders warzone and rarely Chaos Dwarves.

Saying F2P takes more skill than P2P isn't right, but so is saying P2P takes more skill than F2P, simply because you can't do a proper comparison on the two as they are totally different in terms of skill and gear.

P.S. +5 hour fights in F2P are really rare, and only happen on weekends. I know in DF since I joined we haven't had a PKRI over 10 hours other than the DI fight sometime ago.


@Stoke: The only reason why we don't go out to fight clans such as DI is because P2P isn't mandatory in DF and over half our members hate it, being a f2p clan.

I call it gaining potential

I hate long PKRIs, but I'm kind of stuck with them.
Such is life.