Mager...

Hey guys I was talking to Mager today and I found out the story behind what happened with him and the forum ban.

What happened was... Mager quit and gave his RS account to Zlat, and Zlat found out that Mager's forum password and RS password were identical. And so Mager got caught "helping the spy."

I know this story is true, me and mager are pretty good friends.

And henceforth I still have yet to see any conclusive evidence as to why Mager was even banned in the first place.

Give Mager a chance to trial again. At least during that stage y'all can observe him, or w/e.

So mager quit rs, and recently started again?

yeah, i talked to mager alot during fletching
give him a second chance

this happened a while back, so yes he's been back for a while now.

I wouldnt mind see'ing Mager return,
From what I recall of him he wasn't the kind of person who would maliciously try and spy for Zlat.

I still talk to him every so often, and he's been on allot recently so I guess he must have decided to come back to RS

Zlat was on his account.
That's his fault.

Sorry it stays.

Council has said before, you are responsible for what happens on your account, so make sure your password is secure.

Furthermore - Mager (Flippie) kept ban evading in the IRC.
He did it so much that I talked to the IRC Ops and they told me to come back if he did it much more, so that they could ban him from SwiftIRC.

Does he?

Before my time, but everyone deserves a second chance, how long ago was this?

This was about 5 months now I'd say?
4 or 5 months I think.

As was noted, bans are permanent in WG.
The council is trying not to go back on our word.
If we unban people, bans will be worthless.

And besides, Flippie knew the consequences.
He gave his RS account away, and was foolish enough to make his forum pass the same as his RS account.

Nevertheless, I will talk it over with the council.
He has strong support.

But I must tell all of you, the odds are small.
The council HATES reversing bans... with a passion.
Me especially. It's a great weakness in the leadership to do so.

Mager is, was, and always has been a major dick to me for no reason. And for the most part I'd say I'm pretty likeable..

I wouldn't want him back.

Being banned is more than a fuck up....
A 20% warn is a fuck up.
Well I know exactly where my council vote is going.
It's ridiculous.

Why would we unban someone who constantly comes into the lobby (after ban evading) and won't stop...
We don't want him.

Just thought I would actually state my opinion, which I didn't really do in the previous post of mine.

If you are going to allow Simon in the lobby, allow Flippie.
Don't unban him though, because I have been against un-bannings since the first one. A rule is a rule.

Mager did the stupidest thing he could do. Making his rs pass and forum pass the same. So yes, he deserves the ban.

Council pay attention to this.
STOP FUCKING PLAYING FAVOURITES AS TO WHAT BANNED PEOPLE CAN GO IN LOBBY. I don't care if Yingyang06 is your friend, you are council and as such, have to uphold WG's rules fairly. The last time I commented on specifically Simon being in lobby, what I got back was "but he's my friend and I can keep an eye on him..." You can see now that enough people are complaining that ONE banned person was allowed in lobby.

Hmmm...

After reading this, I have realized that mager does deserve the ban...

But I believe that either all banned people or no banned people should be allowed in the lobby.

About Mager being banned, I don't care. I never really knew him, meh.

I do have to say though that, while in this case it may not be appropriate, reversing bans if there is sufficient evidence to support it I feel is the right thing to do - If we find that the guy got hacked; usually its due to a weak password, but honestly everyone makes mistakes - If you don't give people second chances they will not learn. I got hacked -once- back in the day, which made me a lot more cynical and caused me to improve; I won't be hacked again easily.

As far as IRC, why the heck not allow banned/ex members in #wg_lobby? Unless they are actively causing trouble, they should be allowed. We should setup a three-strike system for #wg_lobby, and a 6-month/year rollover system such that if you do stupid stuff and get yourself banned, you can come back in a year - assuming that you have improved and won't do it again.

Infact, this system could be applied to my previous point - a ban could be reversed once after an appropriate amount of time has passed, because people change. If the guy is still waiting around after a year, he probably isn't going to do it again.
This way it wouldn't be Council going against its word, nor exceptions here and there - it would be a specific set of guidelines.

Just my 2c.

-RobbieThe1st

On the him returning to lobby issue:

The last time (at least, probably more, it happens fairly often) an IRC glitch caused all the ban list for #wg_lobby to be wiped (and all channels for that matter), so he can hardly be blamed for that as he probably thought we were being lenient and allowing him in.

Every time I see Yingyang06 in the lobby, I ban him.
If someone is unbanning him then tell me and i'll crush them.
But the council can't do anything unless we KNOW about it.

Easier if people stopped arguing with the council's decision and put up and shut up, if bans aren't made to stick then it's not a punishment.

"omgz can we unban him please? he was banned months ago and wants to join again" "if not then we must ban simon!@!@!" No, bans were made permanent why can't people accept that and just get on with it. As for Simon, he does get banned, just people end up playing favouritism decide to unban him and come up with bull shit excuses such as: "But he's my friend... I'll keep an eye on him i promise.." WTF IS THAT?

Now i'll wait for the "but we unbanned you when bans were permanent? why not someone else? you shouldn't even have an oponion on people staying banned" I fucking dare someone to say that

All in all: Stop arguing for something that won't happen, council won't change their decision on this thread.

Mine aswell ban Glenn too cause Dalejamesw guessed his pass when Glenn was council.

Guessing someone's pass and a member giving it to a banned member are two different things.

Flippie gave Zlat his Runescape password, and Zlatan guessed that the password was the same as forums, so it's still basically guessing the pass.

if i'm allowed to make a third party statement


sharing your runescape password is against the rules in runescape.

thus a major violation in the clan rules themselves.

that's strike one

as for the spying issue, everyone is responsible of this clan. from the guardian to the council we have to protect it at all costs. that also means protecting ourselves from outside invasion of privacy. it was an accident he made his rs password the same as his forum password thus done it unintentionally. i do believe though that his relationship with zlat though was what placed the security of the clan in jeopardy. he made the choice to stick with that relationship without intentionally knowing the consequences of what relationship might cost him. now he knows the consequences and i'm sure that the mistake won't be repeated again, nonetheless he will have to face the consequences of his actions to the fullest extent. no leniency can be shown.

that was strike two

the third and final strike was the irc evasion, and i'll use myself in this example.

i was banned from my previous clan in zdzira. before i left though i had a discussion with one of its leaders, although the majority wanted me to stay he felt it was necessary for me to leave and be taught a lesson. he did allow me to stay on the irc for a minimum of 7 days *oddly enough that's when i met Matt|AUBURN whom i haven't seen since i've been here.* once those 7 days are up i never returned. i do contact the members of my previous clan on occassion but as for dealing with their matters i do not. why?

respect,

the moment mager decided to irc evade unintentionally and continuously was when he broke that respect. he knew precisely well he was banned from the "clan". one thing is dealing with friends and another is dealing with the clan.


it seems that mager has alot of work to do. but as for being a member of wilderness guardians this cannot happen. he will have to start anew under a new family and although as friends we support him. we have to keep in mind we are a clan, community, and a family.

sgtswordfish

JC is right. The banned people probably just try it and find they can get in. That is not evading. Evading is changing your nick or adding some names or stuff like that.

I think Robbie has the right idea. Council could come up with set time limits to allow for a second chance.

I like Simon, Rick Hamm, Flippie and a lot of the banned members. It is nice to see them stop in the lobby as long as they are not causing trouble. They could be muted in the channel and only able to pm people.

Just cause some of you hate certain people, try to keep an open mind for the others that may be friends with them.

imo i think he should be given one more chance, it did happen quite a while ago and it might not have been intentional. Flippie was a good member before this happened and i'd like to see him back, even if he starts with 80% warn or something, so if he starts flaming and being nh then he'll be kicked and wont be coming back.

instead of having another chance policy make an appeal policy. but instead of taking popular vote let the council decide the outcome, they are after all our leadership. their vote unlike ours is at the interest of the clan.

It's a good idea fishy
But... it still doesn't answer the problem about unbanning perm banned members - it completely defeats the point of perm bans.
If we unban Mager then I would personally like to see Yingyang unbanned. After all - he didn't get unbanned for being NH or anything, he got banned for leaving WG too many times

one year as a clan friend is alittle too hard. might as well call it probation than clan friend.

probation, awesome idea, place them 1 year in probation with a member of wilderness guardian with a known background in psychology, they decide when that member is ready to return to the clan.

Lol, just lol.

Just no. You guys are going back and forth over shit that comes up. And no, a year as clan friend isn't that bad if they REALLY want to get back in WG.