With Your Permission

In a WG first, the tertiary leaders have ALL unanimously consented to a council switch around.

BTO -> Raid Leader
Glenn -> Warlord Council

BTO feels that he's better at leading fights rather than planning fights and long term strategies. We all know that Glenn has council experience too.

The pros are that it gives us another raid leader, allows us to go through with the council elections (BTO has made it clear he'd rather step down than fill a council position), and also gives us a council member with previous experience, and we know we can trust him and that he'll do his job. Plus his name looks better in Red.

The only con is that he would bypass an election, which is why I am holding this poll. This is almost an election for Glenn, but still, it's not quite. A few may argue it is not fair. Please say so below and I will definitely hear you out.

George edit: The Council Elections will still take place as planned, so although we have Glenn, we lose BTO to Raid Leader, so we will promote a FOURTH Council Member.

100% yes, who wouldn't want Glenn back in council?

its all fine by me, i hope it works out good

A yes
we luv glenn and bto

Yes Yes Yes. :>

I think this is a great piece of thinking by the leaders, If Glenn knows in himself he can be active again and stuff, i believe this could be a very smart move and would get my 100% backing. I don't see why anyone should have a problem with this.

we might actually get wars again then

yes

Maybe if the people who voted no could explain their reasons.

It's a no brainer really

Yes of course.

Personally any no reasons should be discounted unless they make their reasons known (by pm to Lordy / Council, or on topic).

I'm clearly outnumbered here, but I'm not happy about it. Glenn's awesome, but there's two things bugging me about it:

1) Not doubting glenn's ability, but who says he's going to be active again? I haven't seen it anywhere. Last time I heard he had to step down because RL was too busy? We have people complaining strongly about an inactive council, so we need guaranteed activity right?

2) Similar point, but its clearly unfair on those who have to slave over an application and the election process when he gets the fast track. I don't remember us ever promoting someone to council without first going through elections.

Have I got the wrong end of the stick here or something?

Demote Bto but promoting Glenn is a bad idea.. He's emertius, yes he may say he'll become active but i'm not sure i can trust his judgement. Sorry.
I've no other idea for another Warlord, but i think we should just wait and see rather than promote Glenn.

Also another thing, Glenn's going to be going back to school again soon? Like everyone else, so that's going to make him even more inactive than he is currently.. Ugh i'm just not see'ing this as a good idea.

If he wants to come back i think he should apply and be voted in like everyone else.

If Glenn can guarantee activity (and he already has... i've talked to him), then I think this will work in our favour.
Yes, he is bypassing the election process technically.... but if you think about it, the members are voting for him in this poll - the only thing he's missing is a Council Application.
If you really want, we could ask him to write it

I agree with demoting BTO. I don't agree with promoting Glenn, no matter how much experience he has, he's Emeritus and he says he's busy in irl and stuff too much to do council the first time.

Why not, for once get some fresh council up there, it'll give a change, make it more interesting, probably pay off too. Meaning, instead of one new council for the Elections, why not 2?

I feel that for a warlord council position we have no one else. we really need more raid leaders who can step up to warlord when the time comes, bto has been inactive of late and i don't think lee has the experience yet

I am somewhat undecided so I have not voted yet.

My views upon this:

Yes, Glenn is an epic person. I love him and loved him as council. I would really like to see him as council again. He is probably our best choice right now to fill the warlord position and I would like to see him in the warlord position rather than have no warlord at all. I don't think there is really anyone else that is qualified to be a warlord that I have raided under. BTO's demotion is at his discretion.

That should be an automatic yes if he feels like that is the best thing for him.

The thing that pulls me back from saying yes, is of course, activity. I have not been that active as of late, so I can't give a completely accurate view, but Glenn did leave council for real life. There will come a time where it will more than likely takes its toll again, and it could possibly be extremely soon. I trust Glenn's word, and if he says that he can promise activity, then so be it. But think of a long term, 6-month timeline. Will we still have the same active warlord in 6-months?

This makes me smile. Glenn should just post his intentions for all of the clan to see. We love Glenn in red.

Rachy

I voted yes, but I have to say:

Council you MUST be very strict on enforcing activity if you are going to go through with this. It is always an issue with WG, how inactive do you let a staff member get before going 'Right, enough is enough' and demoting them.

My personal oppinion is there should be a 'probationary period' so to speak, where a very close eye is kept upon what is happening and if the appropriate activity cannot be adhered to then action must be taken.

Don't forget that the overwhelming message coming out from members is we want active staff.

I voted no. Activity is a must..

I nulled my vote because I'm not very active in WGs current state of affairs. However normally I think its better to get some fresh meat in the council rather than old blood.

Voted yes, well most people will be happy. The two parties want it so why not?

EDIT: nvm

EDIT 2: voted yes but meant to click no so one less yes one more no

Gotta say, randy's point has changed my thinking.

Council and warlord are very different positions. If glenn has shown he is good in the past, then it would be the wisest thing to do if no one else stands out.

The bypassing elections is still an issue, but if the majority are in favour, I guess it doesn't matter.

And to reinforce several people's comments, he NEEDS to be active. Especially after people bitch about inactive council. And being council does sacrifice part of your real life. If it doesn't, then you're not devoting enough time to it.

Edit: Writing it now

So....
My personal statement seems a necessary input.
Right now, WG is in a delicate balance. People are starting to have less interest in P2P raiding. Its obvious. People want and needs wars. They have pretty much been nonexistant since about April or May. Before that time period, I was warlord and I got us weekly full outs, pkri's, matched fights, etc. No one else really took up arms to fill that exact tactic, and hence we ended up with only raids.

Though I have only been more active for about two weeks, I've seen what we need: More wars. I can do that, but my actual presence for the clan may be questionable. So you have an idea of how I'll be here, I'll tell you. I left because I had a booming social life, and hell, it was fucking summer. Since May, I've had the best 3-4 months of my life, BY FAR. I'm a renewed and better and happier person on every level. Now that school's starting, my all day charades with friends has been pretty much destroyed. As of Monday, I attend school five days a week. That means I'll go home, and be on IRC at least Monday through Thursday. Check. As for weekends, I'm going to make sure I am active. If I sleep over at a friend's house, I'll be sure at noon PST (3pm EST) so we can do a war or raid. Same thing for Sundays. Friday's are a terrible day for me no matter what. I'm not home til about 8PM EST, if not later. No chance of hosting a war on those days. So I will not be responsible for Fridays at all, that's for my Raid Leaders.
Summary: I'm going to be around, even if just long enough to lead on Saturdays and Sundays. I'm not going to get us week day wars. It won't work for my time zone. Again, I can urge Raid Leaders to make efforts towards that.

Future: I want WG to have more wars. I also think that P2P raiding is going to be more eventful and fun soon. Since everyone is going to be in school, a much more dense portion of clans will be out raiding on weekends, since that's their only free time of the week.

I'm all in favor of a probationary period. I want the best for the clan. I don't care about personal glory. That shit dries up fast.



Someone asked where I'll be in 6 months. To be honest, I'll either be more active, or completely gone. In 6 months, its my second semester of Senior Year in high school. I'm probably going to be out with friends every day after school. I'll have no homework, and I'll be using up the last 5 months with my friends until I leave for college.
I only plan to fill this spot for 4 months at most I'd say. Possibly more depending on clan needs. I can train Lee and others as needed. I would love to have 6-7 guys that can all take over on TS with leading skills, anyways.

Please, ask the hard questions that put me on the spot. I don't want the clan to struggle, but most of all I don't want to see the clan struggle MORE due to me holding you back. I'm loving the criticism, Pete and Mike and Surfer. (and anyone else I forgot)




PS Lordy: Can the switch be after Friday? Friday I get to see my girlfriend for the first time in over a week, so I highly doubt I'll make an appearence on IRC that day.

PSS: Upcoming days I'm not around. The (19th???) of September, a Saturday to Sunday, I'm leading a retreat for freshmen at my school. I won't be around til about 2 PM PST Sunday. Also, this Saturday I'm busy with a drum line event, Sunday is training for the event I host on sept 19th.
Also, football season for my school begins soon. I'm going to be playing in drum line for many of those games, which are all on Saturdays.

Also, I'm not ready to make the switch. I need personal thinking time to confirm I WANT to do this.


Fuck: EDIT: October I may be gone for four days for a retreat at my school. In November, college apps are going to take away personal time, but hopefully not TOO much.

We never lost interest in p2p raids. We haven't had many raid/war leaders on to host them for the past month. Wars sound good though.

As long as theres a good amount of p2p activity i could care less.

Having an amazing Warlord for 4 months would be really great.

Hopefully by the time the 4 months are up, our Raid Leaders would be getting a steady balance of wars/raids.


I'm all for Glenn getting this position.

Being 100% honest here, nothing against you at all, Glenn.

It worries me seeing that you started an inactive streak out of nowhere, and then decided to step down. What if it ended up happening again?
I'm sure our members would get pretty.. angry at that.

Still your decision, though. You'd be great for warlord again.

With what I've said, we really need more people's new criticism on my possible necessity to enter as Warlord. I've told you honestly what I can give. Tell me if that's enough

I can tell you from experience that college applications will take a SHITLOAD of time...that is if you want to send in a decent application.

From what it looks like, what we're looking for is a Warlord that will get us wars. Glenn doesn't have to be the most active person in-game to get us wars, but he DOES have to be active enough to get us fights, let us know and form there our Raid Leaders take over.

I think it's the best thing we can do right now. Glenn is a great Warlord for what we want out of one at this time. We've got leaders that can command us, so we just need a battle to deploy them in.

At the last slump we had a great amount of PKRIs. There wasnt too much variation, and people became bored and left. I didnt contribute much back then, and I blamed myself for not helping variation.

Now, I'm feeling that we're in a similar situation. The majority of our pvp events are P2P Raids, but we're not going to live on that. We need variety. The last couple of P2P raids have been uneventful due to the lack of real competition out there, and it can't keep going like this.

Glenn is definitely the best man in WG right now for the job. To those that remember, we ALWAYS had a big fight on the weekends. We ALWAYS had something to look to. One of my greatest weaknesses as a leader is that I find it difficult to get planned fights. I've always been more effective at ingame leading.

We've been wanting a 3rd pvp leader for a while. With so many things happening, its become difficult for me and Lee to continue making events.

With Glenn, Lee, and me, we will have our variety. We will have our planned wars. We will have our raids. Its basically one of the quickest solutions the our problems right now.

Of course, some are saying that it maybe risky. However, I trust Glenn. If Glenn says he can be active, he will be active.

I've always been more of a Raid Leader then a Warlord. Glenn will fill the spot perfectly like he had before, except ill be more helpful this time :<

Its the best decision for us right now, and I'm 100% behind it.

Even if Glenn was technically "inactive" It's the wars we want. We have raid leaders for everything else... Glenn knows what he is doing and if he says he can be active again, then believe him...

Also, the clan comes first... Not having to fill out a council app is not really a big deal, if it's in the best interest of the clan, then let's make a quick decision and move on.

And besides, at this point. WHAT DO WE HAVE TO LOSE?!

I got yo' back Glenn, ilu.

100%

it seems that we are headed in the right direction. placing our vital strengths where assigned and coming up with a strategic approach.


i've personally taken an oath to be more active. going to start with forums and slowly move towards in game. also send out a resume with mon-fri availability so i can see you guys on saturday wars =D

Cheers for your input glenn.

From what you've said, it still looks like there are a few windows for inactivity. You've done council before, so you should know how active you need to be. Being warlord on the council isn't just about finding wars as well, you need to be accessible and be at the head of pvp issues. On top of that, the warlord should be communicating with the other council and helping out with the general issues.

Anyway, if we can get your word that you're gonna be active, then I'm happy to let it go ahead. From what I've heard, you can do a great job. As long as there's commitment, it could be a great step forward.

I get this feeling that this is only a start to a much needed good plan. Two raid leaders is leaving us lacking even with Glennaroo coming back to be Warlord.

I would like to hear Glenn's approach he plan on taking in council work too. It needs to be right out here so we don't hear later complaints from either side.

As long as Glenn can commit to it without going inactive, then i have no problems

Really if Glenn can be active enough to fufill the role of warlord then i am all for it

~Flamey

Alright.
New update.
I'm taking warlord, not council. I won't be doing app's, I won't be dealing THAT much with members hands on, except for IRC. I will easily answer PM's and stuff, but I'm going to be busy. I hate to say it, but I'm going to almost be a little separate than the Council. I will do literally what my title says. I will get us wars, even if I can't attend them. I can get the wars, and raid leaders can lead those wars themselves if I'm not.
The reason I'm stepping up is not because I'm active enough to be there to start no-prep raids and whatnot. I may be more like Robbie: a big head figure that helps the clan tremendously, but not actually THERE on runescape for you.

Summary: During weekdays, I find us a war for the weekend. I will continue my life as normal but just add getting wars that you guys can do. Trust me, its a SHITTY end of the stick for me.
Why does it suck for me? I have to research every single clan, and pick out a few that are near our level. I have to look at main memberlists, future applicant memberlists, retired memberlists, activity, recent fights, clan history, organization, etc. After I research, I physically go into IRC's and talk to some of the asshole-iest, stingiest, sarcastic, self-obsessed leaders in other clans and convince them that our clan is worth their clan's time. Much over half the time they say "Fuck you WG sucks, smd." and then continue by flaming me.
I'm willing to do it so you guys are successful.

i wonder who voted no

I voted no.

Plain and simple because i dont like the idea of one man being promoted due to his previous actions. I beleive an election should take place, and other people should atleast be given the chance to apply for it.

To jump from emeritus to council is a massive step, and i doubt anyone is up to the task.

I think if he HONESTLY feels he can step up to it, he can take the position. Reading over his post, though, he has a LOT going on in his life, and I think he really needs to decide if he can handle the position at this time. This will make or break him, as if he fails to carry out his duties, I doubt the clan will allow him to step back up again.

Just my thoughts.

FYI Dangy: I don't want to do this. There's just no one else, and I don't want to see the clan slump because there's no one for this job. I have a shitload going down, but I can squeeze in enough to get wars, but that's about it. I'll get wars, and it'll be dumb, shitty work, but I'll do it.

If you don't enjoy doing it then your heart won't be in the role and you are more likely to fall into inactivity

I gave in a good opinion during meeting:

(17:57:35) <Darth_Magul> This sucks
(17:57:37) <Chimpy> COCK
(17:57:38) <Chimpy> COCK
(17:57:39) <Chimpy> COCK
(17:57:39) <Chimpy> COCK
(17:57:39) <Chimpy> COCK
(17:57:39) <Chimpy> COCK
(17:57:40) <Darth_Magul> smd chimp
(17:57:43) <Chimpy> smd u
(17:57:44) <ArSeNaLfAn32> smd darfy
(17:57:51) <Chimpy> let me get in on dis
(17:58:08) <Chimpy> imo, demote darf, make glenn primary
(17:58:12) <Chimpy> kbi
(17:58:16) <ArSeNaLfAn32> kbi

Abit unfair for BTO?

Im inclined to think BTO is only agreeing for the good of the clan and not that he would reaslitcally want to leave his position.

Leave it as it is or make both of them council for the sake of being truly fair for both of them.

When DZ was appointed council it was done without benefit of an election.
So it has worked out well in the past.
If Eugene and the others are in accord there is no reason why it shouldn't work out.
If it doesn't nothing is in stone and that can't be changed up.

I held a meeting with the Council and Glenn last night, in which I talked again to both Kev and Glennfase and Kev is certain that he wants to do it.
It is entirely his decision to "step down" as it were, but the problem with keeping them on as council is that there would be two Council who only want to be a Warlord and not Council (if you understand what I mean).

Glenn is still thinking about it

Sorry. I hate to destroy all this after such a good debate, but now I definitely cannot take the position. Fall play for my school is about to begin. I completely forgot about that... It will DEVOUR all of my time to the minute. Its senior year, all my friends are doing it, and I'm not going to miss out. I won't even be on until about 11 PM EST everyday. There is no chance I'll be able to get wars on weekdays, which was the entire idea.
I wish us the best of luck. I'll stay emeritus for now. I really still want to be part of the clan, but leadership or staff is much too distant now. Maybe in the future someday.

Well now that Glenn can't do it, BTO you're really gonna have to step up man, even if it isn't your strong suit.

Glenn can still advise and train people as emeritus. The position is imaterial, he can pass the wisdom on regardless of rank. Wise choice to make glenn. Although i'd fully support you, it sounds like you do have too much going on, and its no good getting stressed at this stage of your life. Props for considering it.

My oppinion is that elections are more of a popularety contest, not who is the best option. It shouldn't be like this

Ludo, you're semi-correct, but I don't understand how that is applicable to this situation. I had previous experience and everyone (not all but a lot) loved my work as I found us a full out war every single week. That and we have no one ready to take Warlord. You would be WAY in over your head to take warlord without raid leader experience before.
I'm definitely not taking the position, but I'm willing to train people to either lead on Teamspeak, or to gain war-getting experience. PM me on IRC or forums