Keanu - Bias and Immaturity

BAD EXAMPLE:

The fact still remains... he wrote the clan history when nobody else would.
He *might* have written it incorrectly, but he didn't know that.

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I'm going to raise a few key points now.

Historian Rank

None of you would really dispute this based on his work. His work for WG is already worthy of council. The attitude is the dealbreaker. The fact is, the haircut was the cherry on the cake, and not the full reason for his promotion. His work makes him worthy of this rank, which he needs anyway to access certain archive forums. As for half-op, I don't see the harm in rewarding him with it as long as he's not abusive. Considering what he's done to EARN the rank, yes EARN, a tiny little reward like that isn't that much to ask.


DDS on Raids

A rather stupid topic to make, but you guys were so angry with him at the time you failed to see that the main point of his topic was about antiRPKing. DDSing on raids was his way of commenting on how we were RPKing. Poor way to deal with it I know, and I've spoken to him about it. He won't pull something like that again.


Bias from Leaders

This refers to several things including the Historian rank, which I've justified. It also refers to Keanu's lack of punishment for crimes like running from a DM with Lee. I admit I'm in a minority to not see it as a big deal. But if WG sees it as cowardly, so it is. Rachel taking away his mentorship seems like a slap on the wrist, doesn't it? Well the thing is, Keanu's been punished by WG as well. You outcast him, and publicly spat on him in a topic. and that's far worse than a suspension. In other matters where he may have deserved punishment, I will look at them again if you post them... but I feel we're all ready to move on.

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This is a vicious cycle. Keanu is CRAVING appreciation.
He works so hard on WG.com, the wiki page, events, videos...
This isn't to say that other members have given much to WG.
But what Keanu has given is too much for me to ignore.
Historian rank is a comparatively meager reward for it all.

All he wanted was to be valued and respected.
When at first he wasn't, be began to post it to draw our attention to it.
Refer to his signature and other posts where he brags.
He thought we'd see what he'd given.
How wrong he was.

He hosted the summer awards, and to remind us of that it went into his sig.
He thought we'd be grateful for him hosting the awards.
No. We were unimpressed that he bragged.

He's a good man who made bad decisions.
It is not in my conscience to punish him, the one who is so selfless.
Why do I sympathise so?
Because I was just like him.

To earn respect, I used to brag too, and WG put up with it because I was the leader.
They sort of HAD to give me respect, and once I had it, I stopped.
For Keanu, nobody HAS to respect him, and things are getting worse.

Anyway, I've spoken to him about his attitude, and he sees what went wrong.
It is now time to get things out in the open.

Be respectful.
There is lots of anger.
Control it.

How wrong I was. Every time. Or I would have seen this coming months ago. It took His Lordship's post here to make me understand not only what I've been doing, but the reasons why. That's something I would know myself if what I said was true. I was explaining my reasons behind the DDS stunt to Gene when he showed me the topic, and when I read it, I stopped speechless.

I was wrong about knowing when I'm wrong. Until we talked tonight and I saw this post, I had no idea. For whatever reason I just couldn't see why my self-destruction in WG had happened. Maybe it was because I'm the focus of it, and needed an outsider's perspective. Or maybe I was ignorant to it. I don't know. In retrospect it seems obvious, that I was seeking attention. Maybe immaturity is the right word after all. I always simply asked myself, "Do I seem immature?" and replied "Yes". I never thought to take a closer look at the word itself, and what attributes applied to me that defined it. And that, in itself, is immaturity.

Realising this was a stepping stone that I should have taken already, but has had to be handed to me. I'm thankful for it, because I can see that without it I would never have continued. The next one, as I said, is to stop. Without it, the third stone of reconciliation is meaningless - as I will always be able to apologise and make up for my actions, but if these actions continue, my apologies and efforts will lose their meaning.

I don't know. You guys are going to question that. You'll say "How hard can it be to stop acting like a douche?" and in truth, it's not. But when I ask myself, "Can I stop this right now?", I don't come up with a clear "yes". Having to have someone explain myself to me has put me in a state of confusion. And if I have any doubt in my mind, I don't make promises if I'm not sure I can keep them.

So I will start by taking the two stones at once. I apologise for everything I've done - the DDS stunt, awards sig, the video, the DM, every single detail. I know that I've done wrong, and I regret it, and I would not do any of those things again. But there are more mistakes that I could make and problems that I could cause. After tonight, I cannot promise that those will not happen. But I will promise that I will do my best to do what I can to prevent them. And if I am successful, then maybe that apology will be worth something.

I also apologise for the length of this post. Thank you WG, for understanding, and giving me this opportunity. There are few to no other clans that would go so far. That, I respect and admire.

Please listen then Keanu and dont post back would be better i feel.

Listen man. Ive got mixed emotions on one side of a great amount of respect5. You may not remember but i certainly do when you came into tsa irc and apologized about WG's shoddy attendance at the stealing creation event with my guys. Yuo didnt have to but you did so uch respect for that.

On the other hand all the stuff about RPKing.

One. If you run from the fight. That shows how much you care about it. There is no honour in running from a fight

Two. DDs on a raid. Thats being immature most of us get annoyed when on a raid. Seems silly on your part about posting that you know what feedback you would get.

Thirdly. The clan history read it. And take out the part where you mention me. Yes its not in name but in all honesty man i dont appreciate it. You could of at least asked.


Ive seen people say you can go far in WG. Yes you can and proberly will. But you have One choice to make. A. You stop being like you are and grow up or whatever it takes let WG embrace you as they do with some of the other staff. Build those bonds of friendship. Two. Carry on the way you are now. Where if you do get anywhere you will be hated. And then people will not listen to you.

yeah i got bored also, but me im fairly new to the clan and ive never had a problem with keanu he seems like a nice guy to talk to never trolled him or anything, but ive always wondered why people hated him like people always talked behind his back i always asked but people like never really answered me i really didnt get. idk if its just me being new but i hardly see any of things u guys talk about, like him being cocky stuff like that, anyways just saying yeah i agree with wat u said there, its wierd comming into a clan and seeing everyone in the clan picking on one member.

So I checked my IRC logs dating back to June 2nd 2010.

Number of times I have kicked Joe in the past half a year: 1

Nice try though.

Army, I don't recall deliberately adding you to the history, could you show me where in particular you're mentioned, and I'll edit it as appropriate?

Thank you for the constructive feedback and criticism everyone.

Have you changed? You still have that same attitude that a lot of us are sick with, in this quoted post. Is there anything wrong with saying "I've only kicked you once in the past year" and showing your log? Apparently there is. You can't resist the "nice try though" comment. You need to understand that a post like that from joe is typical, he's waiting for a response from you.

In hindsight, it's just best to be humble about that which you do. Very few people would appreciate a boaster, however the opposite can be said for somebody which is humble.

I've removed it altogether.

Are you even reading the replies? That post is EXACTLY what I and I think a lot of people hate about you...

Second, why should you have half op if you obviously can't use it productively? I don't think it was funny in the least bit. You don't need half op for any reason at all and I don't see why you still have it when you obviously lack the maturity to handle it.


Joe I read your post objectively, and continued to scroll down and saw your sig.
It is hypocritical of you to question his attitude when your own is in serious doubt.

If you clicked the link you would know I have 430 kills and 87 deaths in wars and a 25-15-1 record with WG. I do have some basis for the claim. It's also something called satire, since every post I make gets removed I was forced to use other means to prove the point. I'll remove it once he learns the lesson.

This is not a democratic system. Get it out of your head that punishment should be consistent.
We aim to be objective and as consistent for the most part, but this is a dictatorship.
I punish with the members' personality in mind; their capacity to change and reconcile, their maturity.

So everything is based on your judgment?... Absolute power corrupts absolutely, no one person should be able to make a decision completely on their own without oversight.

Equal punishment doesn't work Joe. For instance, some people take the warn logs seriously - they see that their actions have manifested negatively and they learn from it. Others use the warn levels as currency; there's no learning curve. They take it and wait for them to disappear so they can cause commotion later on. That's why in some exceptional cases, I've not allowed warn levels to decrease.

I could either cry in the corner every time I got a warn level and never say another word or I can laugh it off and keep fighting for change. Call it currency if you want to but I disagree.

How I've handled Keanu's situation is one of the decisions I'm very proud of. I can see that he's going to do his best to change and to his credit, he's taking our criticism of him and not fighting us every step of the way. He's really listening. If he's listening, then this has been an effective resolution. The reason I don't do this all the time is because I can't think of many people who could have a topic inviting criticism, and then take it all to heart. Most people including myself would get very defensive, and some might close themselves off from WG.

See most recent post for contrary evidence.

For most others, this method would never work, so I'd resort to suspensions or something else to get the point across... but I always start by talking. If they can't be reasoned with, it gets more and more sever until eventually they are forced to leave either by expulsion or being outcast from the clan and deciding to quit. Fortunately for Keanu, despite his other personality shortcomings, he does have the ability to change from conversation.


See above response and relevant post.

I'm not a jury, I'm a parent. I judge according to what's most effective on a particular person. Get the idea of democracy out of your head.

That YOU think is the most effective, I'd much rather have a jury or some other judge because you've done poorly in my case.

EDIT: If Keanu DDS's on a raid, he'll be given the appropriate warn level. Asfor post count Joe, we've discussed this. Keanu and others post heaps of trash and spam as you are better known for, but they compensate by writing up some quality posts as well. If you had made more posts like the one above, your post count would never have been deducted.

Just because I don't a 10 page essay to make a 1 sentence point doesn't make their posts better.

EDIT2: Also, Keanu is not staff.

Then why does he half op? That should be reserved for staff not a historian.


I think Kyle and BTO have made some of the best points but I cbf quoting any more posts.

Half op and full op should be strictly reserved for Staff and Staff alone.
And as you said, Keanu is not staff.

I'm going to say this once.
He has his rank and he has recognition for being WG's historian but I believe half op should be strictly reserved for staff members.

My gosh, I don't know what you want the guy to do? Sit here and just take more and more flak from people? If we must take away the half-op of Keanu that's fine, but seriously if Keanu defending himself is getting on your nerves you all need to change. If you attack someone you should expect retaliation. Stop complaining about him defending himself.

I was simply asking a question, I'm sorry if it offends you. Although I think you are taking this all too personally [I guess that's the word for it], if you have an issue with a specific issue in somebody's post your best bet would to be sending them a PM and talking it over with them.

Not necessarily referring to you, Aragon. It's most of them. It's not so much as it's personal as it's at a level where I feel like this is a roast of Keanu which bothers me to see. If anyone was getting this beat up on it would bother me. I wouldn't send everyone a message.

And I second this. At the time I gave this permission, Wolf's script was spamming insulting messages upon certain names being said in the chat(like keanu). This is against WG's rules, under "show courtesy at all times" - Insulting someone - even via script - is not being courteous.
Unless Wolf's changed, I am completely behind Keanu as far as this goes.

Whether Keanu -deserves- the power he has is a completely different matter. So long as he has the power, he should be kicking and(if needed) banning Wolf's script(and therefor wolf) from the IRC until he changes. If Keanu loses his power, I expect him to PM me so I can do the kicking.

The same stuff as usual. Saying dumb things to get attention
"I'm gonna get a VLS and pk in full veracs!"

So from what I've seen, no change at all.