Zhero06

read what qickdraw said.

Right.

And what Joe said regarding that Topic, if that's when he had 'Personal attacks on Evil'

Those weren't, He had made a Topic, with many Valid Points, Evil pointed out ot him some of the poitns being wrong, and he responded to that.

That's not personal, if it was you could say the same thing regarding to Evil's original post towards him.

He could be a great member, expecially putting this much work into the Clan only being a Trial Member.

seriously though, he is a trial. He has no right to say that when he doesn't know how wg functions yet. He needs a break to stop and think and calm down and watch what he says while hes a trial and when he graduates to become a guardian.

Community is vital. Him being a trial and already disrespecting a leader is.....unsatisfactory.

He was Debating/Arguing,

I wouldn't exactly call that Disrespecting a Leader.
Trials are still a part of WG and deserve to have some say.

His say/debate was......in my opinion a little to strong and harsh and not....how should I say this......correct.

Basing someone on what their cmb level is and how much they care about Wars and whether we win or lose is just......not in the clear when it sounds disrespectful and is. Hes a trial and is using cmb levels to condescend someone. Thats like saying tabs is a bad leader, and I don't Know if you remember Apkaz, He was lvl 100 and raid leader.

Zhero has a lot to learn and needs to just bring his tone and opinion down a little.

I mean you win some wars and you lose some, you have good activity and bad activity at some points. He needs to realize this before he should graduate. Do we still have a mentor system? Because hes needs one to explain how wg works and how it is so he can choose to leave now or adapt or change wg by example starting w/ himself and moving slowly his thoughts to others.

Only thing I have seen so far from him is.
He cares about wg.
He says stuff everyone knows we need to work on but no one says it/does it.
He tries making new ideas.

So all good things. He just needs to learn to be less criticizing and understand wg a little more before saying what he did.

Did this make sense? I kind of just wrote it and read it and I confused myself so yea. I'll explain it better if you didn't......words kind of came out bad.

So yes the rational converstaion had allready happened, and he had ignored the stuff we had said in that conversation.... as well as what Abs and Eugene had said.

In regard to the personal attacks:

That is the comment that really hurt. I am sure half of the emeritus here know exactly how hard a tertiary has to work, this post came just after I had done an hour of work looking into attendance/signups at yesterdays war so I was feeling like I was doing my bit to help out the fighting sector with yesterdays poor signup rate.

After that comment above I gave him a 20% warn increase with a note that he should not be making comments like those/flaming when he has been in the clan a week. Please when you read that thread note he has EDITED allot (maybe all?) of his posts to make them look less disrepectful, ie.

Original post:

Edited post:

Not quite so nice at first was it? I actually now realise that he edited almost immediately but I only just noticed (look at maths quote on the thread, it shows the original post).

Does he really know what I have done for the warring side of the clan? I have helped out all the council members regardless of what sector they controll, over the pervious 2 days (before this post) a decent proportion of the work I have done has been for DZ and Abs looking at fighting sector.

Also:

I have NEVER said that, of course wars are important to Wg and I would never deny it. I have said that Wars are not the only thing WG does, and that I still feel that community and skills are equally important in keeping WG as a fully functioning unit, even if the sectors no longer exist.

[b[I do regret one of 2 things I said there, but nor am I willing to delete them because that wouldnt be ethical (making myself look better than I was?).[/b]

I do not however regret suspending him. He is just going to get worse if he doesnt get taught the right lessons early on... Think of it this way, parents, would you let your 2 year old tell you what to do?

Sorry the idea of that statement came out wrong...

the intention is to say not that trails have the maturity of a toddler, nor that they are in any way like a toddler, but more that he acts like he is a senior member of WG.... like he's been around for a long time, wheras he is actually only a week old and he is allready breaking rules (relating back to that poorly worded statement, it is almost a rule as a parent not to let your children order you around, which he has tried to do a couple of times allready at a war).

As I say, you guys havent seen even 50% of the problems we have had with him, but examples include basically saying that none of the potential candidates for the warlord council spot are qualified in #wg. He also attempted to take over a 7 vs 7 from one of raid leaders (when declined he then ignored that raid leaders instructions during the war) and as I have said before he has totally ignored requests from some of the most respected members of WG when he posted this thread in the first place.

One of the rules of WG, which EVERYONE agrees to when they join, is to obey the chain of command. I am not saying that he isnt allowed to have a say, but he did that to myself, abs, a raid leader and eugene and we were allready taking action on some of the issues he identified (such as the lack of binding).

However he posted that topic against our wishes, hence he ignored the chain of command

Im not going on just seniority, its just that he hasn't been in WG long enough to be making those remarks like he has. He is a trial and still needs to focus, not on solving problems, but adapting and understanding wg. I mean hes been here a week. He needs to just jump in and understand everything and see wg and how it processes in general before saying things about issues he doesn't understand. His topics were valid, but his treatment of Evil and how he retorted were not right.

A 3 day ban may have been a little much, but hopefully he will learn from it and not make the same mistake twice and will watch how he says things and that he respects councils decisions and doesn't go against them.

First you say that he shouldn't be focusing on solving problems... Then you say his points are valid.
You don't sense anything wrong there?

Kiwi, honestly, who are we to decide what he should or shouldn't be focusing on? And I'm not talking about simple guidance, either - I'm familiar with the purpose of the Mentor System. My point is, people may not always have similar concerns when it comes to fitting in or contributing to the clan.

It probably wasn't wise to criticize the clan at such an early rank, but it was within his right to do so if he so chose. I don't really think that's the problem here; The problem here is the attitude he gave when presenting his arguments.

i hate when you do this to me and i hate me for getting into these things L

You should be.

Now that it's brought up and his topic was closed:-

Firstly, I'm gonna let this out honestly. The new members are somewhat making me lose interest in things. To be truthful before I start things off, I've got a problem with Zhero ever since he came around.


I'd agree to a certain extent, with what Kiwi said about him still being fresh here and how he should adapt and understand WG. There's nothing wrong with suggesting stuff. Word. But, like it's already mentioned, there are ways how you do things.

That's the problem here as I noticed. As much as I myself hate to hear people talking about previous clans etc. (esp. if they are only there for a short time), I'm gonna bring this up a bit, sorry. I've been in top clans like EoH/RSD for 3+ years and I have never seen people walking in and acting all wise-old-men and preaching about how things should be done.

These new members come in and act like they lived through World War 2 and it disgusts me. Sure, you've been in clans who may have achieved better in terms of warring. Sure, you've led your own clan before. But shut your mouth and watch your surroundings first before you start preaching shiate.

You're in a NEW environment with different people, different ideas and opinions on things. Sure, being all hard-up and trained by the Army, you'd be more comfortable and expect things to be all solid. But you're now in Elementary school and people may not have that sort of mentality.

Clans are often judged by how they do in fights/wars. If I go strictly with that, I would have rejoined RSD when I came back to RS and not who.. WG? Wars aren't be the only reason why people join clans, like it's mentioned a million times. These new members need to know that. They say they know, but NO, seeing how patient they are in these matters.

Problem is, people always want to be trash talking whenever they step into an environment which they believe to be inferior compared to where they have been. It is normal, hence why I respect people who dont act like that. But as much as it is perceived by the mind to be normal, it still angers/disgusts me a lot.



One more bit about Zhero is about his attitude about things. He suggests this and that and rant about this and that but when it comes to actually doing it, he doesn't do shiate. Look at what Math brought up about him binding. And for myself, I've witnessed it before during our Intraclan F2P Clan Wars:

When Glenn told us it was going to be robes-only and no rune. Zhero just went "If that's what you guys are gonna do then I'm off. Waste of my time"
I'm sure Joe can vouch for me on this incident. Tell me what kind of attitude is that. Kid needs to learn how to respect. What a way to let people know how you are.