Discuss: Teams/Requirements

Recently I have been talking with Kyle/Rachel on teamspeak about this and thought I’d post a topic to hear what everybody else thinks about it.

Teams

Currently we don’t allow any members to be in any teams that PK, only CWA teams. I think this should be changed to something along the lines of Higher Guardians+ (Although Rachel t thinks Elite) can opt to join a team of their choosing as long as they place WG mandatory events over any team events. Failure to comply will result in an automatic demotion to Guardian/warn level +40%? As well as forcing them to leave the team (punishment should be discussed as this is just something I thought of quickly). I think it should be Higher Guardian+ because it’s already hard enough to get higher guardian as it is and you do have to prove loyalty to the clan before obtaining the rank. The reason I think we should allow members to join a team of their wishes is because WG doesn’t offer a lot in terms of PvP at the moment, but we do have a great community, which is almost impossible to say goodbye to. Some members in the past have displayed interest in joining other teams such as Ancient Fury, or Frozen Fury. Discuss.

Requirements

The requirements should be updated just a tiny bit to something like 108+ F2P combat, because currently some people are very low combat level and refuse to train. We’d give everybody below 108 F2P combat 2 months to train to 108 which is plenty of time. The reason I think we should upgrade this is because 108 F2P combat is like… nothing. DZ got 100 F2P combat in what… two weeks of playing on his new account? 108 is barely anything, it’s around 80- in all melee stats, which is very very very easy to come upon. Showing that you can make the little extra push to get those 8 more combat levels shows all the difference and what would be considered a dedicated member and what wouldn’t be. We need members with dedication and the ability to train if we want to do well in PvP, because it’s hard to do something with a level 100 to be honest.

I like the idea of a level requirement increase, although we want more members to join, people to have fun etc. at todays war I noticed when right clicking their pile 50%+ of their pile was yellow/orange named (at 135 p2p cmb) while ours we barely had 20% this colour. I think it's a bit unfair about making lower levels train etc and it doesn't seem right, but essentially it COULD help us move forward.

I agree with both points. <-- I hate short posts like this but Aragon suggested I put it anyway so yeah , I have nothing else to input into the suggestion.

Obviously not but if you aren't maxed how much you train does take a part in showing your dedication to the clan, which I never disagreed with.

I rarely look at a person as a level of combat in my mind. I talk to all members exactly the same whether they are 100 or a Zemus. I do not agree or like that anyone would suggest that level alone makes dedication to the clan. We have had maxed out very good pvp people in our past history who have proven that wrong already. (This is not directed at anyone. Just stating how I think.) Higher combat is what helps to win the wars. We all know that winning wars is important to a pvp clan.


I really don't think that Higher Guardian is the rank to let join teams. At Elite rank, they have proven to be very loyal, trusted and valued members of the clan. To the point that they even sometimes give input on promotions and things like that. If you look at the members on the Elite list, you will see the most dedicated members in the clan. They often retire to our Emeritus list and stay around to help us in wars and pvp.

We have not been successful with raising lvl since I have been in WG other then the lvl 80 skillers had to get to lvl 100 when we got rid of the skilling sector.

With NO "plan", you are "planning" to fail.

Basically, we need a plan to succeed. We now have more members than we have had for some time. What we do with them is more important atm then anything else.

Were WG's requirements 100 when WG were fighting for #2/1 P2P? [Lordy?]

I don't agree with our members being involved with teams who we regularly see in the Wilderness, which would primarily be FF and AF.

They fight alongside them one day, and against them the next? I just don't think it makes sense. They also have mandatory fights, which, no matter how much they say won't, inevitably makes them less focused on and active in WG.

As for a requirement raise, I'd be for it ... but not to 108+. That's a considerable jump from 100+, perhaps 105+. However, last time a requirement raise was brought up it was shot down.

When do we ever fight against AF/FF? And since WG events take priority over them, they'd be fighting alongside us no matter what even if we run into them.

WG's requirements have been 100+ since 2005 and this has given us an advantage.
We're one of the lower level requirements meaning we're a better option for people who don't want to train up to the higher level clans.

In P2P PVP these days, we know that levels don't really mean that much anyway, with all the high hitting weapons and such. It really comes down to organization. I think having a low requirement will work in our favour in the long run, as long as we make sure that they are trained in basic organisation.

I'm more willing to concede the idea of allowing members to be in PVP teams given your current conditions. I'm with Rachel. Elites+, and even then it feels a bit wrong to say that the rules are different for certain members. It's borderlining bias, and I'm worried about potential backlash.

"If he can be in a team, it's not fair that I can't be. Is he of higher quality then I am or something?"

Both issues are very dodgy in my opinion, but I'm more willing to move on the rule about teams. I'm adamant requirements not be changed, partly because of tradition, and partly because numbers and organisation trumps levels and organisation.

History will tell us requirement raises are a very bad thing for WG.

So I have to be against the requirement raise. However, maybe we should implement a training comp like we did back in the day. Especially with free trade coming out, I would throw up like 10M for the winner. I_Is_Aydin got 117-126 in a month during the last one.

If not that, could put in OPH again.




As for teams, I dont think they are great ideas. Usually if people want to go pking during the day, they can easily have like 5-10 people short prep for some bh - clan wars stuff. If they want to join a frozen fury / af type team, then you could say that they want action that we arnt giving them (High level'd, High Numbers, uncapped pkris) So I would say Higher Guardian would be good enough for that.

Gene is probably right about the bias in singling out ranks that can do certain things.

I have to agree that maybe when free trade comes out we can use that as a way to get members to train their combat.

In an old clan I was in, we had to pay the clan bank so much gp if we did not attend 3 events in a week. So you could miss but you had to pay for how ever many you missed. I'm not sure how that general idea could be useful to us but keep it in mind for paying for competitions and stuff. Like a fine for doing/not doing something. Trust me all the members were pretty active. lol

Then why not just allow everybody to join a team, with equal consequences?

Jayson, as you said, PKing with 10 people at BH isn't very fun imo, none of the P2P teams do that.

There's a difference between making bank and getting banged out by another team and having to regroup every 5 minutes in a different world, which is what usually happens during our Saturday Raids.

I am mostly worried about our community events taking a hit if we allow people to join PvP teams. Even though we will tell them that WG events take priority over team events, they will of course skip a non-mand skilling event to PK with their team. I can also see them preferring to PK with them over us, if raid times overlapped. War attendance could take a hit too.

Not to mention FF and AF have mandatory fights for their members, which could result in a conflict of interests.

How can we honestly enforce that WG events come before team PK trips/fights? The only way we can have proof that somebody skipped a WG event for a team event is if a staff member joined the team alongside them to make sure they stay in line.

Even if that happens, I can see the following happening:

*Member skips WG event for FF event*
*Staff sees Member skipping WG event for FF event*
Staff: You know ur not supposed to be at a FF PK trip during a WG event, right?
Member: Yeah ... um ... um ... plz don't tell! I'd much rather be killing noobzors in the wildy than playing FoG! l0lolol
Staff: Ya me too! Actually, how bout we skip together?!!?
Member: O ok!
Staff: Hehehehehe, fuck WG! :D
Member: Ya, fuck WG! :D

(Basically, a member breaking a rule, but a staff member letting it slide by because they don't want to be the bad guy. It does happen, and it would happen.)

Furthermore, I believe joining a PvP team shows disloyalty to your clan. Also, yes, we have seen FF and AF in the wilderness on past raids. Maybe not on a regular basis, or even in the past month, but then again you can't expect to run into every P2P clan/team within a month's time. Like I said in my previous post, it wouldn't make sense for them to fight alongside them one day, and against them the next.

I'm okay with CWA teams, because those teams can help members out when it comes to WG's PvP. People wanting to join a large PvP team like FF will obviously already be a skilled PKer, so allowing them to join one will provide no benefit for WG.

The clan comes before the member.

Yes, I can understand the thinking that WG members may want to be a part of a team that is consistent and dominate in the wilderness, but I don't think that desire is widespread. To be honest, we haven't really had many members with the urge to join a PvP team. Also, in recent memory, I can only think of a couple members who left WG to join a "top" clan.

If we change the rules to appease the minority, and allow them to join teams, who's to say the majority won't follow suit? I don't think that would help WG.

All that being said, I don't think altering our policies and requirements at the current time would be wise, given the (most likely) future PvP updates.

The XP tracker will help a lot, awesome.

Also, not sure what you were referring to when you said "Is that really up to us to decide?"

It's not up to us to decide what's right and what's wrong, if the individual feels wrong fighting against his team then it's his problem, not ours. We can't enforce ethics we believe in, because truly it doesn't matter [in this case]. I've fought RSD so many times when I was in TKO/RSD at the same time, since we both wanted practice in the same type of fights, and it's all fun and games. Laughs are shared, but it really doesn't matter the slightest.

I personally say that is someone wants to join a big pk team, we should let them. But if we catch them, either with a tracker or word of mouth, pking when they should be with us, a very high warn level, or something of the like.