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Tabula Rasa
By His_Lordship on 12/02/2011
Tabula rasa is latin for "blank slate". It is usually used to describe two phenomena. Firstly, that when we are born, our brains are without any content, and eventually are filled through experience. Second, for when we wish to start anew, and clean the records. In this case, tabula rasa will be relevant in both ways. Just something to think about as you read these words.
Apologies in advance for the heavy reading, but it's important. The leadership will assume that in one week's time, every member will know all the information from this topic. If you don't know about the new rules, requirements, or structural changes, it is YOUR fault!
When a new member joins the community, they enter with a blank slate. Their experiences will shape how they behave in WG. I guess I'll cut to the chase. Our community has been declining for the last three years or so. When a new member joins the clan, what will they learn? They see open fighting and talk behind peoples' backs, and they see this as commonplace and therefore acceptable, and the cycle is reciprocated. At what stage did you, the reader, find it acceptable to flame, even in retaliation? Because everyone else did it?
Fights are breaking out more regularly (eg. Keanu), gossip and malicious rumours are being spread (eg. Elize), and members are being generally disliked (eg. Bgpgraebner). We'll touch on that last issue in some more details shortly. You are not required to like anybody, but we have formed an elitist culture whereby if someone doesn't fit our mold, or doesn't act the way we want, we outcast them. This cycle has to end.
Bgp is a great member. He's active, loves to chat, and I really respect the guy. What's his problem? He's a 14-year-old in a clan that's 18+. And we don't have the fucking courtesy to let him be a typical 14-year-old. I'm on Teamspeak and we're having an event. I ask to invite Bgp, and then EVERYONE with a mic and a few without start whining. You can't get past his youthful nature, laughing inappropriately, a few awkward statements, asking lots of questions. This is the behaviour you'd expect from someone his age and we were all like that.
Apologies in advance for the heavy reading, but it's important. The leadership will assume that in one week's time, every member will know all the information from this topic. If you don't know about the new rules, requirements, or structural changes, it is YOUR fault!
When a new member joins the community, they enter with a blank slate. Their experiences will shape how they behave in WG. I guess I'll cut to the chase. Our community has been declining for the last three years or so. When a new member joins the clan, what will they learn? They see open fighting and talk behind peoples' backs, and they see this as commonplace and therefore acceptable, and the cycle is reciprocated. At what stage did you, the reader, find it acceptable to flame, even in retaliation? Because everyone else did it?
Fights are breaking out more regularly (eg. Keanu), gossip and malicious rumours are being spread (eg. Elize), and members are being generally disliked (eg. Bgpgraebner). We'll touch on that last issue in some more details shortly. You are not required to like anybody, but we have formed an elitist culture whereby if someone doesn't fit our mold, or doesn't act the way we want, we outcast them. This cycle has to end.
Bgp is a great member. He's active, loves to chat, and I really respect the guy. What's his problem? He's a 14-year-old in a clan that's 18+. And we don't have the fucking courtesy to let him be a typical 14-year-old. I'm on Teamspeak and we're having an event. I ask to invite Bgp, and then EVERYONE with a mic and a few without start whining. You can't get past his youthful nature, laughing inappropriately, a few awkward statements, asking lots of questions. This is the behaviour you'd expect from someone his age and we were all like that.
| QUOTE |
| The moral of the story. We need to be more tolerant and accepting toward people who are not like us. Not everyone can be perfect. Stop being so elitist and drop your guards. Take a risk and don't judge them until you know them well enough. Not everyone should be like-minded. Respect the differences between us. |
An even more memorable drama was Keanu. He was a prick at times. We know this. And I don't need to mention numerous character flaws that eventually led to his leaving. Rachel and I worked hard to change him, but he wouldn't, because he stopped loving WG. They kept picking on him, telling him to go train, or bringing up his DDS on raids, running away from a DM. As much as he tried to change, the image of him was formed and stuck. He could not shake free of it and so he acted up some more, leading to his demise.
| QUOTE |
| The moral of the story. Where was the forgiveness? He had to carry the weight of his sins forever. You never gave him a chance, and you never stopped mistreating him for wrongdoings. We have become a much less forgiving clan. Someone is bad, and the automatic response is hate. Offer the chance to change. Offer forgiveness and only resort to conflict when every other response fails. |
Justin was a really nice guy for the majority of his time in WG. In the last few months, things turned sour because he broke up with his girlfriend and had to fight for custody of his daughter. He got kicked out of home, didn't have a job for a while... his life was full of stress. He snapped once or twice. Were we tolerant? Some of us were, others were not. We couldn't accept the fact that he was having a bad day. Well, he just got more sour. I could have used a number of people for this analogy but Justin's one was particularly exaggerated. Mutiny is a bannable offense, but he was a good man and friend for many years. He wasn't thinking straight. If I can offer forgiveness to someone who tried to dethrone me, surely other matters would seem trivial
| QUOTE |
| The moral of the story. People have bad days. If they abuse you, take it just once. If it happens more, then do something about it, but learn to let things go. |
Last example. It was just a public IRC conversation. Two clan members you didn't know each other very well joined in. It was a debate over GE prices. One of them just said "smd", and that's how the fight began. One saw it as a passing comment that meant almost nothing, the other saw it as an insult. The two became enemies.
| QUOTE |
| The moral of the story. See how much 3 letters can change a relationship? Either one of those people had the ability to avoid the problem. The first guy could have chosen not to say it. The second guy could have just seen it for what it was... meaningless banter with no malicious intent. But hey, what can you do about insecure teen boys? |
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Across the board, I'm seeing bitching about people.
IRL Meeting in Australia, bitching about certain guys.
Leadership meeting on Teamspeak, talking badly about certain members.
Nobody is perfect.
You're not supposed to like everyone, but you can't choose your family.
Most of us are adults. We should know how to handle disagreements.
I'm not going to lie... running the community is getting harder and harder as WG ages.
A clan of young adults is much harder to run.
Adults are less forgiving, less impressionable, and have too much pride to defend.
Think of a piece of clay. When it's fresh, you can easily remove any imperfections and change it into something you want. As it ages, it hardens and becomes much harder to change. So it is with adults. When two adults fight, it's so much harder to come to a resolution. They find it easier to ignore each other and are happy to remain enemies.
Oh and another thing. The default response to things in WG is trolling. Not just fun stuff, but on topics, "cool story bro" and shit little one-liners tell them you don't really care. I call it passive-aggressive behaviour. There's no respect between members any more. The natural tendency to dismiss stuff has got to go. A more open air of encouragement needs to replace it. If you're part of this problem, don't feel too bad. It's you and about 30 others. I'll be checking the forums for signs of this. It's not warnable but I'll let you know that you're being too negative and need to lift your outlook.
We arrive at the first change...
TABULA RASA - A CLEAN SLATE
All accounts have all warn levels removed.
Everyone gets to start afresh and try to be outstanding members.
All grudges are dropped.
Hold nothing against a member for the past.
If you cannot do this, you lack the maturity for this fine community.
I'm not compromising on this.
NOTHING is to be held against any members unless it is from the present.
This is the time for new beginnings.
Whoever you hate (most people hate someone in WG) - it's time to let go.
I know I'm asking for a lot. Deal with it.
We can't rebuild the community with grudge wars in every corner.
The new rule that accompanies this change:
All flaming will be promptly punished, regardless of who started it.
If you are flaming to defend your pride, you will be punished equally, even if you didn't start it.
If someone insults you, it is NEVER an acceptable response to fight back.
If you can't handle that rule, please leave. It would hurt a lot if 20 of you left, but I'd rather see that than continue with all the fighting, which in comparison is far more painful.
A reminder that warn levels don't mean suspensions any more. You get 5 warn levels then are kicked. We only suspend if you're posing an immediate threat to members and need some time to cool off. Don't forget in addition to community warns, you also get warns for not signing up to the most important events and skipping things.
We will pledge to look at warn logs more frequently and remove them where appropriate, hopefully without you needing to ask, but there is NO SET TIME for them to be removed. It is up to our discretion as to when you've learned their removal with good behaviour. A rise in activity will almost instantly take away warn levels for non-signs-ups and such. Warns for fighting might take longer to go away.
There is one other change I want to discuss...
REQUIREMENT RAISE
This is part of the Tabula Rasa topic for one important reason. The requirement raise is to help the community. It was pointed out to me that WG members have little enough in common. We have such disparity between low levels and high levels, it does contribute toward community conflict. Now, it saddens me that people can't get along with those who don't know the game as well... and don't have the patience to help them learn, but the benefits are now outweighing the costs.
The new requirements:
105 F2P combat by March 14th
110 F2P combat by April 11th
For years and years, I've delayed this change because of its negative impact on recruitment, but there are now enough high level players in Runescape for this not to be an issue. At 100, I feel some players are just too inexperienced. All members need to train to meet this new benchmark. If you have difficulties, let me know and we'll work something out. And since they are training, the rest of us (the majority) should make the effort to train as well. It would be very helpful.
THERE IS A FLIPSIDE TO THE RAISE. READ CAREFULLY.
I am introducing a very, very radical idea to clanning.
I believe we'll be one of the first clans, if not the first, to do it.
Dynamic requirements.
The advertised requirement will be 110 F2P combat.
We'll only seek out players of that level... BUT
We will allow 100+ members in on certain conditions.
Firstly they have to be willing to train to meet the requirements over an agreed amount of time. This could be anything between a month and three months, depending on their level. Second, they have to have decent PKing skills already, and the required armour sets. Finally, they must be referred.
I might loosen the rules on recruits below 110 eventually but we'll trial this system for a little bit. Let me ask you what the reason for requirements is... requirements are there so that everyone in this clan is competent enough to PK. Levels are a decent indicator but there are a number of low levels who are very good at PKing. Not many, but if we find one we shouldn't turn them down.
The idea of dynamic requirements is not fully set so you have time to discuss the changes with me, but I am pretty set on the requirement raise and tabula rasa.
_____________________________
Wow, that took a long time to write. I had a video filmed and everything but it vanished. So I've just been typing for an hour. Fml. Post some detailed comments below just to show me you appreciate the effort I'm putting in. No shitty 3 word responses please.
By George on 12/02/2011
I really like the ideas mentioned above.
The concept of a clean slate is something that I have my doubts will work unless EVERY SINGLE MEMBER participates and doesn't hold grudges.
Hopefully this will be a chance to re-open communications with people that you have long stopped talking to...
I myself would love to get back in touch with some people I used to call friends...
The requirements raise.... well Gene i really don't know what I think about them.
I've been here for almost 4 years now and so have seen many increases and decreases in our requirements and the consequent advantages and disadvantages that they bring.
I do share your concern that those under lvl 105-110 do pose a problem when PK'ing, especially in the new wilderness, so maybe this will be for the best.
The only obvious downside is that it will affect current WG members, who I hope will be able to train up quickly enough, i'm sure they will, and also our recruits... meh we can get over all that.
I do like the idea that we can still have 100 f2p cmb recruits though, i wonder if this will work out for us, we've never done it before i believe (?)..
Edit: I forgot to say, if anyone below 110 F2P Combat does need any help in getting up to the new reqs, all you have to do is ask and I will offer my help in whatever way I can, all except training your actual account for you.
If you need a buddy to train with, or ideas about where to train etc, just ask!
The concept of a clean slate is something that I have my doubts will work unless EVERY SINGLE MEMBER participates and doesn't hold grudges.
Hopefully this will be a chance to re-open communications with people that you have long stopped talking to...
I myself would love to get back in touch with some people I used to call friends...
The requirements raise.... well Gene i really don't know what I think about them.
I've been here for almost 4 years now and so have seen many increases and decreases in our requirements and the consequent advantages and disadvantages that they bring.
I do share your concern that those under lvl 105-110 do pose a problem when PK'ing, especially in the new wilderness, so maybe this will be for the best.
The only obvious downside is that it will affect current WG members, who I hope will be able to train up quickly enough, i'm sure they will, and also our recruits... meh we can get over all that.
I do like the idea that we can still have 100 f2p cmb recruits though, i wonder if this will work out for us, we've never done it before i believe (?)..
Edit: I forgot to say, if anyone below 110 F2P Combat does need any help in getting up to the new reqs, all you have to do is ask and I will offer my help in whatever way I can, all except training your actual account for you.
If you need a buddy to train with, or ideas about where to train etc, just ask!
By Garrett on 12/02/2011
Fighting in wg has become a problem and ruins our community, im glad u have created a system for it. The members that do fight/flame in wg most likely wont stop though, and will have a high warn level for most of there time in wg.
I think it is sad to see emeritus earn warn levels, if you are active enough to earn warn levels, you are active enough to not be emeritus and be a full on member.
I think it is sad to see emeritus earn warn levels, if you are active enough to earn warn levels, you are active enough to not be emeritus and be a full on member.
By Kyle on 12/02/2011
The clean slate idea is absolutely brilliant. I know I'm a major part of all the trolling and stuff that goes on with certain members, and it'll be difficult to change, but if everyone works on this together, it'll surely be successful.
The low quality posts I've seen from members, especially ELITE GUARDIANS, is really horrible. It's about time WG finally gets a referendum like this.
Goes to everyone. Get your shit together, or get out.
Requirement raise, YESSSSSSSSSSSS OH MY GOD YES.
Yes.
I'm glad that it's going to go up to 110. People that are level 110+ are usually always better stocked, better trained(Not only in combat, but Runescape knowledge in general), and overall better members.
It's been too long for change like this to happen. Thank you.
The low quality posts I've seen from members, especially ELITE GUARDIANS, is really horrible. It's about time WG finally gets a referendum like this.
Goes to everyone. Get your shit together, or get out.
Requirement raise, YESSSSSSSSSSSS OH MY GOD YES.
Yes.
I'm glad that it's going to go up to 110. People that are level 110+ are usually always better stocked, better trained(Not only in combat, but Runescape knowledge in general), and overall better members.
It's been too long for change like this to happen. Thank you.
By Kung Man149 on 12/02/2011
Gene, I think this is a very good topic especially about all grudges being dropped.
However I don't think the second part of it is all that good I mean, a few weeks time for 110?
Some of us don't play that often or are limited in our time of play.
However I don't think the second part of it is all that good I mean, a few weeks time for 110?
Some of us don't play that often or are limited in our time of play.
By Kyle on 12/02/2011
| QUOTE: Kung Man149 @ February 12, 2011 11:42 am) |
|
Gene, I think this is a very good topic especially about all grudges being dropped. However I don't think the second part of it is all that good I mean, a few weeks time for 110? Some of us don't play that often or are limited in our time of play. |
Eight weeks and two days to train up to level 110 combat. If you can't get 4 combat levels in two months, you are NOT active enough to be in WG.
By Kung Man149 on 12/02/2011
| QUOTE: Kyle @ February 12, 2011 11:44 am) | ||
Eight weeks and two days to train up to level 110 combat. If you can't get 4 combat levels in two months, you are NOT active enough to be in WG. |
What have I told you before Kyle?
I'm on limited time like 99% of the time.
By His_Lordship on 12/02/2011
Oh yeah Kyle that reminds me of another thing.
Because WG is so old that's a problem.
We've all got our groups of friends and because WG members are so established, new members will find it harder to get into those groups.
Spend time reaching out to make a friend you wouldn't expect to make.
_______________________
In my case, I'm really only close with the Aussie unit and a sprinkling of old school members. Even guys I consider to be friends... Randy, DZ, Kyle... a shitload of old schoolers... We hardly speak. There's been very little friendship building happening for me outside the Aussie unit except during tinychat moments or isketch moments. Maybe we should have more of those.
Because WG is so old that's a problem.
We've all got our groups of friends and because WG members are so established, new members will find it harder to get into those groups.
Spend time reaching out to make a friend you wouldn't expect to make.
_______________________
In my case, I'm really only close with the Aussie unit and a sprinkling of old school members. Even guys I consider to be friends... Randy, DZ, Kyle... a shitload of old schoolers... We hardly speak. There's been very little friendship building happening for me outside the Aussie unit except during tinychat moments or isketch moments. Maybe we should have more of those.
By Kyle on 12/02/2011
Then if you can't commit that much time to WG, ex-member is the place for you.
By Kung Man149 on 12/02/2011
| QUOTE: Kyle February 12, 2011 11:46 am |
| Then if you can't commit that much time to WG, ex-member is the place for you. |
If you're trying to start something Kyle, it's not going to work.
Drop it.
You know well enough that when I get online I train my ass off to make everyone happy and either way, I still get the "Keanu" treatment.
By His_Lordship on 12/02/2011
Or perhaps Kyle, being a troll on an anti-trolling topic isn't such a good idea.
EDIT: Look for the intention behind the words. Alain wants to but can't. Let's *not* do on a witch hunt, and instead offer a solution. Perhaps have him loan the account, or simply say "try with as much time as you can and we'll see how you go and if you can't make it there in time, perhaps a short extension, as long as we can see you're trying"
Anyone of those solutions would have been better than the subtle hint at asking him to leave.
EDIT: Look for the intention behind the words. Alain wants to but can't. Let's *not* do on a witch hunt, and instead offer a solution. Perhaps have him loan the account, or simply say "try with as much time as you can and we'll see how you go and if you can't make it there in time, perhaps a short extension, as long as we can see you're trying"
Anyone of those solutions would have been better than the subtle hint at asking him to leave.
By Garrett on 12/02/2011
nvm
By Kung Man149 on 12/02/2011
| QUOTE: Garrett @ February 12, 2011 11:48 am) | ||||||
you understand it took dz 2weeks to get 110combat from 100, and he was only training one skill, the slowest way to gain combat levels. Hes 98, as i speak. |
He's not on a limited time limit as bad as I am.
By Kyle on 12/02/2011
I'm not trying to troll, just being 100% blunt. Sorry.
By Kung Man149 on 12/02/2011
| QUOTE: Kyle February 12, 2011 11:49 am |
| I'm not trying to troll, just being 100% blunt. Sorry. |
Alright, I'll be perfectly blunt too.
You know damn well I train whenever I'm online I even show you my track gain after I'm done.
And you still persist with this shit and it's pissing me off.
I'm sorry if you don't like it Kyle but it's the truth.
By Indivi2you on 12/02/2011
This Dynamic Requirments you say we may be the first to input it... Although, it sounds much like an FA system. To see if they have the necessary skills to raid/war, and are willing to train up to the normal lvl of 105/110 f2p.
Also, this clan is not 18+. You cannot say that. Just because nearly every Aussie is 18+, doesn't mean the clan is. Gene, you know that even I am not 18. So when you make posts like this saying that we need to mature, it won't happen.
I'm starving to eat, so I'll add in the rest of my 2 cents later.
Side note, my birthday is March 14th :>
Also, this clan is not 18+. You cannot say that. Just because nearly every Aussie is 18+, doesn't mean the clan is. Gene, you know that even I am not 18. So when you make posts like this saying that we need to mature, it won't happen.
I'm starving to eat, so I'll add in the rest of my 2 cents later.
Side note, my birthday is March 14th :>
By His_Lordship on 12/02/2011
Oh and another thing. The truth can also be a flame.
"I was just speaking the truth" is not an acceptable excuse.
Not picking on you here Kyle, I'm saying this generally to WG.
How you present the truth is important.
Saying "you're fat" to a fat person is the truth. Would you say it just because it's the truth?
"I was just speaking the truth" is not an acceptable excuse.
Not picking on you here Kyle, I'm saying this generally to WG.
How you present the truth is important.
Saying "you're fat" to a fat person is the truth. Would you say it just because it's the truth?
By Randy on 12/02/2011
Highers and Elites should start hosting events and inviting new members (and definitely your mentees).
And being completely honest, some applications should really start being declined based on effort.
Most of the inactives and trolls can easily be spotted from their intros and apps.
Clean slate - meh, it would be nice, but I doubt some people loose grudges because Lordy says the magical words.
Requirements - Yes. Just yes.
And being completely honest, some applications should really start being declined based on effort.
Most of the inactives and trolls can easily be spotted from their intros and apps.
Clean slate - meh, it would be nice, but I doubt some people loose grudges because Lordy says the magical words.
Requirements - Yes. Just yes.
By His_Lordship on 12/02/2011
| QUOTE: Indivi2you February 12, 2011 04:52 pm |
|
This Dynamic Requirments you say we may be the first to input it... Although, it sounds much like an FA system. To see if they have the necessary skills to raid/war, and are willing to train up to the normal lvl of 105/110 f2p. Also, this clan is not 18+. You cannot say that. Just because nearly every Aussie is 18+, doesn't mean the clan is. Gene, you know that even I am not 18. So when you make posts like this saying that we need to mature, it won't happen. I'm starving to eat, so I'll add in the rest of my 2 cents later. Side note, my birthday is March 14th :> |
I realise this poll was a while ago, but I did the research and I don't think the average age has changed much.
And the way you said it "Also, this clan is not 18+. You cannot say that." with such finality and conviction just adds a rough edge to it.
Randy, as for people not letting go of grudges, they need to announcementselves now. Are you hanging onto any?
By Kat on 12/02/2011
I definatly agree to everything you said Lordy. We should all be treating each other with more respect. One girl left because of how immature everyone was acting and treating her (aka. sandwich and get in the kitchen jokes), and she had just joined. We shouldn't be fighting in public places like irc, ts, or in clan chats. I believe when i first joined, i never knew who fought. i didn't see any of it and it seemed like everyone got along so well! And i do feel like we should be forgiving instead of pushing the arguments to everyone's limits.
The Requirements are a very good idea. Its hard on members to try and get the lower levels to a pvp event because of no pvp experience. Especially when you get them to come and they get rushed by lower levels and die because we cant help them. Idk if you thought about this but shouldnt there be a required mage level in WG, half the time on pvp events no one is Tbing (which is what gets us kills) because there mage level isnt high enough. Or they just dont want to idk. Just saying. lol.
The Requirements are a very good idea. Its hard on members to try and get the lower levels to a pvp event because of no pvp experience. Especially when you get them to come and they get rushed by lower levels and die because we cant help them. Idk if you thought about this but shouldnt there be a required mage level in WG, half the time on pvp events no one is Tbing (which is what gets us kills) because there mage level isnt high enough. Or they just dont want to idk. Just saying. lol.
By His_Lordship on 12/02/2011
And one last thing...
Saying "I doubt people will clean the slate" is only inviting people to do just that. You EXPECT grudges to be held, and if you expect it, people will do it.
It's erasing my hard work and I don't like it one bit, so stop expecting it.
Anyone who holds onto a grudge is defying my personal expectations.
Saying "I doubt people will clean the slate" is only inviting people to do just that. You EXPECT grudges to be held, and if you expect it, people will do it.
It's erasing my hard work and I don't like it one bit, so stop expecting it.
Anyone who holds onto a grudge is defying my personal expectations.
By Rodney75 on 12/02/2011
I don't have much to say on all this, so I will keep it short.
Agree with everything, clean slates, requirement rises (love the dynamic approach) and the whole community re-work.
I was seriously getting a little annoyed with it all - considering that maybe WG had just moved to far for me to enjoy it. But now I see it's not just me noticing it all - and efforts are being made for improvements - i'm sure it will improve (obviously taking a little bit of time).
But ultimately, other than recruitment - I don't think much applies to me. I have my own personal views on people, and I generally don't let it known at all. I really didn't like all the 'Keanu jokes' - and still don't appreciate how they are still occurring on teamspeak during raids when he's LEFT already. Get over it. Same applies to the other members - it just seems some people are 'out' to get people, because it's always the same few who pick on other members.
Agree with everything, clean slates, requirement rises (love the dynamic approach) and the whole community re-work.
I was seriously getting a little annoyed with it all - considering that maybe WG had just moved to far for me to enjoy it. But now I see it's not just me noticing it all - and efforts are being made for improvements - i'm sure it will improve (obviously taking a little bit of time).
But ultimately, other than recruitment - I don't think much applies to me. I have my own personal views on people, and I generally don't let it known at all. I really didn't like all the 'Keanu jokes' - and still don't appreciate how they are still occurring on teamspeak during raids when he's LEFT already. Get over it. Same applies to the other members - it just seems some people are 'out' to get people, because it's always the same few who pick on other members.
By DZ on 12/02/2011
I've noticed the 'decline' of the community for a while now, hell I've probably helped contribute to it at some times but I'm glad that we are attempting to make things right again. Even though it may be difficult I'm sure we can all mature up and make a few sacrifices for the good of the clan.
I've been wanting to see a requirement raise forever now... lets hope that this one will actually last and succeed. To current members under the requirements, just do your best to train up. That's all we can ask of you.
I've been wanting to see a requirement raise forever now... lets hope that this one will actually last and succeed. To current members under the requirements, just do your best to train up. That's all we can ask of you.
By Mickey on 12/02/2011
I'd also like to request a revamp of our trial system. Too many times have I seen someone graduate within a week or two and then go off and publicly flame other clans, or even start fights with other members. At that point it's easier for them to remain in the clan because the punishments for guardians isn't as hard as Trials.
I'm not saying go all out and make our trial system as hard as RoT's, but atleast implement tougher requirements to graduate, and even a member vote. That way trials will only graduate if the members feel they deserve it. In the long run WG's image will be better protected because we won't have idiots giving us a bad name, and they won't have the chance to damage our community.
I'll elaborate more when I have time if need be. I'm kind of in a rush atm.
I'm not saying go all out and make our trial system as hard as RoT's, but atleast implement tougher requirements to graduate, and even a member vote. That way trials will only graduate if the members feel they deserve it. In the long run WG's image will be better protected because we won't have idiots giving us a bad name, and they won't have the chance to damage our community.
I'll elaborate more when I have time if need be. I'm kind of in a rush atm.
By hitman1 cs on 12/02/2011
good topic gene 
i support what you said.
i support what you said.
By Vulcan Sin on 12/02/2011
Great Post, Respect it. Agreed!
On a side note, at the start of the raid today, you guys were pissing around and teamspeak was on the verge of being muted, like alot of the time.
Then when Katt came back after a break you started loling at her, and being unfair and wouldn't quit it
On a side note, at the start of the raid today, you guys were pissing around and teamspeak was on the verge of being muted, like alot of the time.
Then when Katt came back after a break you started loling at her, and being unfair and wouldn't quit it
By Kyle on 12/02/2011
Exactly guys. Don't talk down to ANYONE, no matter who it is.
By Dallar on 12/02/2011
Thanks. Great post..
Dynamic requirements.. Don't think it'll happen. I think it'll trigger alot of disute because of some people getting the priviledge to join at a lower level than others. You would be better off with a FA system.
We could revamp the mentor system in extend. Instead of just being there to answer questions we could monitor a trial members progress ingame and in-clan. We could let people in at 105, then give them a month to reach 110 (Going from 105 to 110 takes no more than a week) If they fail to train they're not fit here. I would've loved that. It both shows an interest in becoming better and dedication to WG.
I know my rank says trial guardian but I have been here for 4 years in total with two accounts. Yes we do have a tendency to mock people for their differences but I must say that sometimes people ask for a verbal ass-whopping. It just our responsibility not to fall in the pit and get into a fight.. Just try and sweep em' off or talk to them in private and help them solve their matters.
I also think that once you get the elite guardian rank there's not much more for you to do. The only way an elite guardian can advance is by becoming staff member. My problem with being an elite was this. I wasn't motivated by many things. I was just actually waiting for an EL application to open. Maybe we should try and encourage elite guardians to be more responsible (Hosting events, more involved in trial guardians.. (FA system?)) Just more respnsibilty overall.. I think having responsibility will trigger a better community. We need to be there for eachother and help out.
Disputes started in the IRC are only started because of immaturity. If you get involved in a fight try and solve it instead of trying to take the competition. You win nothing but extra experience in being an asshole. Just stop it.. It's not that hard..
Hope it made sense.
Dynamic requirements.. Don't think it'll happen. I think it'll trigger alot of disute because of some people getting the priviledge to join at a lower level than others. You would be better off with a FA system.
We could revamp the mentor system in extend. Instead of just being there to answer questions we could monitor a trial members progress ingame and in-clan. We could let people in at 105, then give them a month to reach 110 (Going from 105 to 110 takes no more than a week) If they fail to train they're not fit here. I would've loved that. It both shows an interest in becoming better and dedication to WG.
I know my rank says trial guardian but I have been here for 4 years in total with two accounts. Yes we do have a tendency to mock people for their differences but I must say that sometimes people ask for a verbal ass-whopping. It just our responsibility not to fall in the pit and get into a fight.. Just try and sweep em' off or talk to them in private and help them solve their matters.
I also think that once you get the elite guardian rank there's not much more for you to do. The only way an elite guardian can advance is by becoming staff member. My problem with being an elite was this. I wasn't motivated by many things. I was just actually waiting for an EL application to open. Maybe we should try and encourage elite guardians to be more responsible (Hosting events, more involved in trial guardians.. (FA system?)) Just more respnsibilty overall.. I think having responsibility will trigger a better community. We need to be there for eachother and help out.
Disputes started in the IRC are only started because of immaturity. If you get involved in a fight try and solve it instead of trying to take the competition. You win nothing but extra experience in being an asshole. Just stop it.. It's not that hard..
Hope it made sense.
By markenzie1 on 13/02/2011
i so much wanted to see this post!
i have seen how hard it is for new people to get in the community and i must say that its hard for me to let someone in aswell (i try to be as open as possible though).
just be open to it and start a random chat with someone helps tons.
about the rectuitment rise:
i love that idea, raising our cmb, while being able to make exeptions sounds like a great way to improve our pvp.
once again, nice post gene,
mark
i have seen how hard it is for new people to get in the community and i must say that its hard for me to let someone in aswell (i try to be as open as possible though).
just be open to it and start a random chat with someone helps tons.
about the rectuitment rise:
i love that idea, raising our cmb, while being able to make exeptions sounds like a great way to improve our pvp.
once again, nice post gene,
mark
By Dorcha3377 on 13/02/2011
The combat raise is awesome, I am very happy to see it. People do need to loosen up a bit and realize when people are joking around.
Things can never be like they were in the past because it was the past, we were different and more innocent back then.
That does not mean we can't take the wisdom we have earned and not apply it to the future.
Joking around is one thing, running stuff into the ground is another.
Show some tolerance for your clan mates and treat others as you would like to be treated.
Good deal on this .
Things can never be like they were in the past because it was the past, we were different and more innocent back then.
That does not mean we can't take the wisdom we have earned and not apply it to the future.
Joking around is one thing, running stuff into the ground is another.
Show some tolerance for your clan mates and treat others as you would like to be treated.
Good deal on this .
By Jayson on 13/02/2011
interesting read.
By Fbi3255 on 13/02/2011
Very Interesting topic and ive felt like it was needed for a while. Goodjob
By Mark on 13/02/2011
K ill stop picking on BGP.
Req raise is a good idea imo. Took me 6 hours to read that post.
Req raise is a good idea imo. Took me 6 hours to read that post.
By VEPHYSAURAS on 13/02/2011
Was an interesting read. I never think I can speak my mind here anyway cause no one cared then and less likely now. Anyway here is to a fresh start maybe.
By JC on 13/02/2011
Interesting post.
I personally think the progressive requirements are giving a bit too little time for people to train (maybe make it 100-105 over a month then give 6 weeks for 110?) but it doesn't really worry me too much.
Good luck to all those that needed a fresh start
I personally think the progressive requirements are giving a bit too little time for people to train (maybe make it 100-105 over a month then give 6 weeks for 110?) but it doesn't really worry me too much.
Good luck to all those that needed a fresh start
By His_Lordship on 13/02/2011
| QUOTE: VEPHYSAURAS @ February 13, 2011 05:09 am) |
| Was an interesting read. I never think I can speak my mind here anyway cause no one cared then and less likely now. Anyway here is to a fresh start maybe. |
*definitely.
By Elyxiatic on 13/02/2011
Requirement raise has been long overdue. For those who are saying they can't reach the requirements in time, you're simply not active enough. Think about it, people were meeting 100+ requirements back in 2006 long before any of the good training gear and spots came out. Back in 2006, the best training spots were bandits, with 40-50k xp/hr. There was no healing via summoning, there was no chaotic gear; you had to bank for food, yet still we all managed to pull off 100+ f2p combat. The amount of activity required then is the same that would be required now with 110+ requirements.
In regards to letting 100-110 in when the requirements are 110+, this should only be done in very very special situations. The only person I would apply it to in the past month would be DZ. He's an ex-warlord, and came in with under 110 combat, yet trained like a beast in the last few weeks, and is now 110+ f2p. Add to this his warring capabilities, and the fact that he knows how to tank, he is one that should be let in under 110. However for other cases which we have somebody applying under 110, 95% of the time it should be a decline until they meet the requirements.
The combat aspect digs into the community as well. A prime example would be about getting firecapes. With all the gear and help available nowadays, a firecape is a joke to get, however some still find this as a really good achievement. People like me are struggling to find common ground with 100 combat players because of the vast difference in rs knowledge and abilities. Sure I'm not expecting everybody to max out, but a higher combat average without 100-110 would at least help in mending bridges between the community.
Within the community, the one liners are really the thing that got to me. It's just draining and immature. I'm going to sit back + observe over the next couple of days to see if anything has changed.
In regards to letting 100-110 in when the requirements are 110+, this should only be done in very very special situations. The only person I would apply it to in the past month would be DZ. He's an ex-warlord, and came in with under 110 combat, yet trained like a beast in the last few weeks, and is now 110+ f2p. Add to this his warring capabilities, and the fact that he knows how to tank, he is one that should be let in under 110. However for other cases which we have somebody applying under 110, 95% of the time it should be a decline until they meet the requirements.
The combat aspect digs into the community as well. A prime example would be about getting firecapes. With all the gear and help available nowadays, a firecape is a joke to get, however some still find this as a really good achievement. People like me are struggling to find common ground with 100 combat players because of the vast difference in rs knowledge and abilities. Sure I'm not expecting everybody to max out, but a higher combat average without 100-110 would at least help in mending bridges between the community.
Within the community, the one liners are really the thing that got to me. It's just draining and immature. I'm going to sit back + observe over the next couple of days to see if anything has changed.
By His_Lordship on 13/02/2011
If you tried you could find common ground with 100 combat players.
They are human beings with interests of their own.
And Runescape is a big game.
They are human beings with interests of their own.
And Runescape is a big game.
By Zooby69 on 13/02/2011
Combat requirement raising has been on my mind for quite some time, as has a FA system, many top clans with large ML's have had a FA system which is working brilliantly.
110 f2p is easy to get if you train for a few weeks a few hours a day, anyone who reckons 110 f2p is achieveable in one week, get lost, DZ's account is a perfect example, its pretty much online 24 hours a day and only achieves a few million xp a week, you may pull 100k an hour with you 99 str and attack but accounts that are below 110 normally have 85~ atk/str/def, this results in 50k-70k maximum an hour, even with torso/salve amulet (e), most members don't have 85 dg so they don't have chaotic, and dont troll them for not having it, again they aren't maxed so its not as easy to find a good dging team.
As for the trolling, about time, either have a clan is a community of trolls (i.e RoT or a clan of zero tollerance to trolling. I'd rather the latter. What we did to Keanu was unacceptable and what is going on right now is too, even I crack the shits and abuse people when I've been troll'd.
I've had grudges against people because of their trolling, now that it will stop so will the grudges. Its time WG nutted up as a whole clan.
p.s Kyle and Alan, Kyle could be seen as "trolling" somewhat but Alan you've already ignored a new rule:
110 f2p is easy to get if you train for a few weeks a few hours a day, anyone who reckons 110 f2p is achieveable in one week, get lost, DZ's account is a perfect example, its pretty much online 24 hours a day and only achieves a few million xp a week, you may pull 100k an hour with you 99 str and attack but accounts that are below 110 normally have 85~ atk/str/def, this results in 50k-70k maximum an hour, even with torso/salve amulet (e), most members don't have 85 dg so they don't have chaotic, and dont troll them for not having it, again they aren't maxed so its not as easy to find a good dging team.
As for the trolling, about time, either have a clan is a community of trolls (i.e RoT or a clan of zero tollerance to trolling. I'd rather the latter. What we did to Keanu was unacceptable and what is going on right now is too, even I crack the shits and abuse people when I've been troll'd.
I've had grudges against people because of their trolling, now that it will stop so will the grudges. Its time WG nutted up as a whole clan.
p.s Kyle and Alan, Kyle could be seen as "trolling" somewhat but Alan you've already ignored a new rule:
| QUOTE |
|
If you are flaming to defend your pride, you will be punished equally, even if you didn't start it. If someone insults you, it is NEVER an acceptable response to fight back. |
.
Hopefully WG can prove their maturity (as we are mostly over 18 or almost) and we can advance as a clan. Get back to what makes wg so good, the relaxed community mixed with epic skill (moose lulz) and awesome people.
Hopefully WG can prove their maturity (as we are mostly over 18 or almost) and we can advance as a clan. Get back to what makes wg so good, the relaxed community mixed with epic skill (moose lulz) and awesome people.
By His_Lordship on 13/02/2011
He knows, as I've spoken to him about that.
By Woof on 13/02/2011
| QUOTE: VEPHYSAURAS February 12, 2011 10:09 pm |
| Was an interesting read. I never think I can speak my mind here anyway cause no one cared then and less likely now. Anyway here is to a fresh start maybe. |
Honestly, Vephy, I would love to know how you feel.. about everything.
To me, you're like that mystery member.. we all know you, but we don't all -know- you.
Even if you don't feel comfortable enough yet to talk with everyone else, I would like to listen to your words. I would.
To you, Gene, I greatly like this idea, I think that first off: The combat requirements are great. I am already over 110+ f2p, so I'm definitely safe in that sense, (and I'm always slowly training stuff up) but as a whole, it will help us grow stronger as a force.
Secondly, about the clean slate thing, I think it's great. I'm glad that I've had my warn level removed and I'm looking forward to being a positive aspect to WG. Although I talk a SHIT TON, I usually feel like I'm more of a positive aspect, which I think it important, however, I am humble and I know I am not perfect and still look to improve myself.
Thanks for all your continued hard work, Gene.
It is not going un-appreciated.EDIT: I notice my warn level isn't gone.
EDIIT2: Thank you.
By demomc on 13/02/2011
Really good topic, i can see how this will definitly help WG in the long run and i dont think that 20 people will leave (if anyone for that matter).
I think a refreshing start is what some of the players in this clan need and i fully support this topic.
As for a requirement raise this is just about the best thing ever, i know when i first joined i was alot lower than i am now but higher levels usually = more experience and what else could you want in a clan like this
I think a refreshing start is what some of the players in this clan need and i fully support this topic.
As for a requirement raise this is just about the best thing ever, i know when i first joined i was alot lower than i am now but higher levels usually = more experience and what else could you want in a clan like this
By Snowzak on 13/02/2011
Aw dangit why does the req raise have to happen when I have no interest in RS anymore.
Good luck guys, I'm sure everything'll work out
Good luck guys, I'm sure everything'll work out
By Gotan100 on 13/02/2011
Alright! I'll get training
By rachellove9 on 14/02/2011
If anyone needs a training buddy, pm me on the forum. If I can't train with you, I try to work it out for you to have someone to train with. TS can really be an awesome past time as you train. It makes the time fly by and if you goof up and die, sometimes friends can get to you to bless your grave.
Vephy, I always care about your opinion. You were a great council and still hold respect with many of us.
Gary, I have little in RS in common with you and I still love to come talk with you.
Kyle and Alain, sometimes it is better to just agree that you do not have the same view on something that is a heated topic between you. You can always try to work out things with a few easy steps.
1. Realizing that forgiveness is a gift given freely to those who have hurt you. So when you are thinking that you have nothing to be forgiven then think if you have hurt the other person. It doesn't matter if you were right or wrong really. If you offer forgiveness and they don't take it then it is on them and not on you.
2. Forgiveness does not involve a literal forgetting. Forgiveness involves remembering graciously. The involved people remember the truth though painful parts, but without the use of angry words that stir up fights and resentments.
3. You can't just say you forgive. You have to change in yourself where forgiveness is more likely to occur. There are specific conditions that have to change so hostility and self-pity will be less. You increase positive feelings, so it becomes more likely that a genuine, heartfelt letting go of the resentment will occur.
I don't know that either of you will read this, but that is the best way I can describe how to end a true disagreement where you hurt each other. I can see the hurt on both sides.
I hope this little advice can help others as well.
Vephy, I always care about your opinion. You were a great council and still hold respect with many of us.
Gary, I have little in RS in common with you and I still love to come talk with you.
Kyle and Alain, sometimes it is better to just agree that you do not have the same view on something that is a heated topic between you. You can always try to work out things with a few easy steps.
1. Realizing that forgiveness is a gift given freely to those who have hurt you. So when you are thinking that you have nothing to be forgiven then think if you have hurt the other person. It doesn't matter if you were right or wrong really. If you offer forgiveness and they don't take it then it is on them and not on you.
2. Forgiveness does not involve a literal forgetting. Forgiveness involves remembering graciously. The involved people remember the truth though painful parts, but without the use of angry words that stir up fights and resentments.
3. You can't just say you forgive. You have to change in yourself where forgiveness is more likely to occur. There are specific conditions that have to change so hostility and self-pity will be less. You increase positive feelings, so it becomes more likely that a genuine, heartfelt letting go of the resentment will occur.
I don't know that either of you will read this, but that is the best way I can describe how to end a true disagreement where you hurt each other. I can see the hurt on both sides.
I hope this little advice can help others as well.
By Lee on 14/02/2011
Finally, Progress.
Im one of the people that has been assisting in the decline of the community. My attitude towards keanu, was out of order. Im sorry.
I like the req raise. But should be involved into an FA style system. Works everywhere else. Means people at 105, can still join, and be an FA. And gives them time to train, learn WG ways, and still PK. Have full member at 110 f2p and the set reqs, and FA for 4 weeks MINIMUM.
Im one of the people that has been assisting in the decline of the community. My attitude towards keanu, was out of order. Im sorry.
I like the req raise. But should be involved into an FA style system. Works everywhere else. Means people at 105, can still join, and be an FA. And gives them time to train, learn WG ways, and still PK. Have full member at 110 f2p and the set reqs, and FA for 4 weeks MINIMUM.
By Kung Man149 on 17/02/2011
| QUOTE: Gotan100 @ February 13, 2011 05:33 pm) |
|
Alright! I'll get training
|
Race you to 99 str?
By Pyroclastic0 on 17/02/2011
82+ magic requirement too?
By Mickey on 18/02/2011
So is that a no to the revamped trial system then?
By Bgpgraebner on 19/02/2011
| QUOTE: His_Lordship) |
|
Fights are breaking out more regularly (eg. Keanu), gossip and malicious rumours are being spread (eg. Elize), and members are being generally disliked (eg. Bgpgraebner). We'll touch on that last issue in some more details shortly. You are not required to like anybody, but we have formed an elitist culture whereby if someone doesn't fit our mold, or doesn't act the way we want, we outcast them. This cycle has to end. Bgp is a great member. He's active, loves to chat, and I really respect the guy. What's his problem? He's a 14-year-old in a clan that's 18+. And we don't have the fucking courtesy to let him be a typical 14-year-old. I'm on Teamspeak and we're having an event. I ask to invite Bgp, and then EVERYONE with a mic and a few without start whining. You can't get past his youthful nature, laughing inappropriately, a few awkward statements, asking lots of questions. This is the behaviour you'd expect from someone his age and we were all like that. |
Just gonna keep it short. First, thank you gene for showing people your personal thoughts about me. Second, to everyone who dislikes me for anything i do, I have said this a lot of times. If i do something you disapprove, FUCKING SAY IT TO ME. I'd be less offended reading what you said on that moment - i.e "look bgp what you just did was not rly nice" - than what i read above - "members are being generally disliked (eg. Bgpgraebner). Seriously, if you have something to say - say it.
On the other hand...
On the requirements raise, i'm pretty much neutral. I think this would make our recruiting a lot harder, but would in fact make the raiding/warring A LOT easier.
Full support to the "everyone gets a chance" thing. Keanu became a bit of a friend of mine when he left WG. He wasn't this asshole everyone said he was. All i'm saying is, don't judge people for what you see at first.
By Quikdrawjoe on 19/02/2011
Waiting on my 0% warn level...
By Vulcan Sin on 19/02/2011
| QUOTE: Quikdrawjoe @ February 18, 2011 10:09 pm) |
| Waiting on my 0% warn level... |
I lol'd
By James on 20/02/2011
I was in a pure clan that did the trial thing, it works very well i wish you luck! A good read and i picked up on a few things Im training already
Im training already Back to Topic Index