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Um no

By Randy on 26/05/2011
Just took the permission to view level 1.75 + 2 away from Historian.
He has not earned it. Don't make ranking unfair.
user posted image

By His_Lordship on 26/05/2011
Yeah whatever it's trivial to me.

By Randy on 26/05/2011
QUOTE: His_Lordship @ May 26, 2011 01:44 am)
Yeah whatever it's trivial to me.

Showing complete bias to members who kiss-ass rather than honoring the hard-working members trying to get ranks legitimately is trivial?
Not what I'd want to hear from you.

By His_Lordship on 26/05/2011
Whether or not he has the access is hardly a big deal.
I'm so sick of tiny things being blown into fully fledged dramas.

By Randy on 26/05/2011
QUOTE: His_Lordship @ May 26, 2011 01:51 am)
Whether or not he has the access is hardly a big deal.
I'm so sick of tiny things being blown into fully fledged dramas.

The fact is doesn't seem like a big deal to you is a big deal.

By Jayson on 26/05/2011
Already promoted him?

By Randy on 26/05/2011
Wait a minute fuck no. He didn't even fucking graduate. This is an absolute joke. I'm setting him as trial guardian right now and if you undo it I'm submitting my intro to TT.

By Kevin on 26/05/2011
Absolutely ridiculous. Gene, do you ever take into consideration what everyone else thinks about Keanu? He has done nothing, absolutely NOTHING, to deserve any sort of special treatment.

By His_Lordship on 26/05/2011
Were any of you at the meeting to discuss this?
No you were not.
The decision to make him historian was made without you.
Your fault for not attending the meeting.

___________________

As I have enough time, my reasoning for instant promotion to historian is below.

1. Firstly, we'll soon be removing the need to re-graduate for previously graduated members (within 12 months) as this is unnecessary bureaucracy.

2. With Randy stepping down, and thinking at the time that Kevin was also stepping down, I considered WG to be in a critical state. Some of the void left by the loss of council and by extension, morale, could be partly filled by Keanu's returning.

3. Keanu is unquestionably the most dedicated member of WG, whom I could easily trust with sensitive information and whose work as historian is SO valuable to me, I'm willing to put up with the criticism, some of which can be read if you scroll up.

4. The MANY clan members present at the meeting were all in agreement that this was suitable, so yes Kevin, I do consider others. That can shut you right up.

Sometimes, for the well-being of the clan, rules have to be compromised for a greater good. If you don't believe I have the clan's best interests at heart, THAT I consider to be a big deal, and you'd better say so now so we can discuss it.

_____________________

Randy, I undid it. I don't tolerate blackmail.
It would actually be your loss. It's the difference between ex-member and banned.
Either way, you're leaving so it doesn't phase me.

By rachellove9 on 26/05/2011
What the heck? Did you even read the TS recap? Seriously Keanu is back and is Historian. I have to agree with Gene on this.

First off, why attack Gene over it? I gave Keanu the trial guardian rank only because someone got rid of the Historian rank on the forum. Keanu and I already discussed that even though he gets his rank right now that he will post his graduation topic to be in good faith with the clan.

This is only a going to be a big deal if you all make it a big deal. There were either 19 or 20 in attendance. Out of those members only 1 had any objection to Keanu at all. They did state that it was a personal objection and they would be fine with it as well.

I'm very excited to have Keanu back too. He is getting along with everyone so much better. Even Jenny and he get along now. This may seem like a bias decision to you and it may be bias but it is still happening.

To Randy:

Are you kidding me? You are willing to be banned over this? You want to go be a future applicant and you're so close to being able to go soon anyway. Simply put, you are being an idiot if you do this. I'm sad you're leaving, but the thought of having to ban yet another friend is not a pleasant thought. Keep it all in perspective. Do you think you will be hurting Gene as much as you are hurting all your friends that you won't be able to return to WG? Where is the honor in that?









By Kevin on 26/05/2011
I am perfectly fine with Keanu getting Historian. Nowhere have I said that I disagree with that. However ...

Bypassing trial guardian? No.
Higher & Elite as an added bonus? No.

Also, I call bullshit on this:
QUOTE
2. With Randy stepping down, and thinking at the time that Kevin was also stepping down, I considered WG to be in a critical state.


Yet your reactions to the announcements of Randy and myself stepping down were, for lack of words, extremely low on the care-meter.

For my level 4 topic, for example, after Jayson brought it to your attention, you posted your lackluster two-liner, and then proudly proclaimed in the lobby:
<Lordy|AFK> posted jayson
<Lordy|AFK> i don't have much to say on the matter

Honestly, it's apparent to me that you don't even want me in council anymore. But that's fine by me, I don't mind being a thorn in your side. wink.gif

Let's be real here for a minute, Gene. How long have you been waiting, no, dying to get Keanu back in this clan, but in an even more increased role than he ever was?

It seems to me that the only type of council member that you like is the one that will never disagree and/or argue with you. Case in point, public defamation:
<Lordy|Shower> Jayson, Randy and Kevin... you can go stick a pineapple up your asses
<Lordy|Shower> http://www.wildernessguardians.com/forum/i...showtopic=22443

That's just a wonderful thing to say in the lobby, isn't it?

By His_Lordship on 26/05/2011
I will address your reply as I go down each point.

Bypassing trial. Why not? It's going to be a universal thing anyway. Higher and elite. Refer to First reply. Seriously, Keanu's going to have higher and elite privileges eventually and it's a small token in exchange for his ongoing work.

2. Call bullshit in this? Low on the care-meter is flattery. It wasn't on my care meter. Once you gave up and had a little meeting saying "It was time for WG to close" behind my back, you lost all my faith in your leadership ability.
QUOTE
Well, after that council meeting we just had, it seems that everybody's pretty content with WG dying off.


That came from your own fingers. I'd be well within my rights to demote you on the ground of having harmful intentions toward WG. Don't ever forget who I am. I've been soft for a long time, from since before you joined the council. You do not want to see the fire burst out from within me. I am not stupid and I am not incompetent. I've been doing this job for a long time... long enough to know when a council member is being a brat who is putting on his big boy boots and trying to defend his childish actions.

I didn't have much to say on your resignation. Frankly you lost your fire to lead about 3 months ago. You've literally been doing less than I have. What exactly is your contribution to council other than to post your personal opinion on things? And what makes you think that's enough? I could get any member's opinion on a change. When you resigned I was not happy to see you go but the way you gave up on things long before softened the blow for me.

To answer your question, how long have I been dying to get Keanu back? I will answer honestly and without bias.

It didn't cross my mind until your intentions to leave were made clear. With Randy going and you to follow, and a rumour on the wind that Rachel might leave too, it was in my interests to fill the void, and Keanu is the only person with enough dedication to help me cope with a potential crisis of stability.

That's more than I can say about you. Let's talk about your next point. The only type of council member I can tolerate being the one that doesn't disagree with me? Absolutely not the case. I've had plenty of disagreements with you. Recall the gear checks, which by the way have become a complete joke and need to be revised. I was against it but I yielded considerably to your demands.

What DOES shit me is when I get a complete dose of bullshit from you. Remember at all times you are not my equal, you are under me and I have final authority. Only through my softness have you been able to get away with treating me like a lesser leader.

Between you claiming I don't listen to people AFTER THIS MATTER WAS AGREED UPON BY THE 20 PEOPLE AT THE TS MEETING, UNANIMOUSLY, and Randy basically blackmailing me with a TT intro, you wonder why I'm showing signs of aggression. Then you proclaim how being a thorn in my side is not a big deal. Well, it's actually a bigger deal than what forums Keanu can see.

If you want me to talk to you respectfully, earn it. You've been lazy with council work, spoken to me poorly on more than one occasion (I'm recalling the gear checks discussion we had), and shown apathy toward a lot of things I've said. Then I find you're thinking about resigning and have been in a meeting where you decide WG should die off.

And then you find the balls deep inside yourself to make a post saying I'm the bad guy.

_______________________

I finish by saying this, Kevin.

No, I was not happy to see you resign.
Neither was I happy with how you'd been behaving prior toward this.
Yes, I am happy to keep you on as council provided your attitude changes.
From what things look like in this topic, it won't.

I'm in a lose-lose situation. Lose you, and therefore a potentially awesome council member, and by extension a great deal of morale. Or keep you, and put up with a whole bunch of in-fighting and bullshit. If it were my choice, I'd have you stay in council, and talk through our personal issues.

If I insulted you with lack of care on your potential leaving, then it had the intended effect. You first insulted me by descending to the lowest a council member can go, and DARE say that this clan was "destined to fail".

By Jayson on 26/05/2011
All I have to say is I'm against Keanu being instant promoted.

The whole reason he was 'taking a break from WG' was because everyone hated him after the bias he received from the whole 'Historian' rank.

Now he joins and within 3 days gets it again? What's going to change?





On everything else in this topic:

- Randy, I hope you don't do what you said you would do. If you do it, you will be right there next to Dale and Mugger in the history of WG. Do you want that?

- Kevin, I also agree about the bypassing trial. If an old member wants to rejoin, I don't see why they can't spend 2 weeks minimum as a trial rank. It is the same as Guardian rank really without level one, which hardly gets used.

By rachellove9 on 26/05/2011
Do you recall when Dallar left and came back? I don't think it took him very long to get his rank back. He was Guardian for a few hours and I promoted him to Higher. You all are talking about bias. Well I was pretty bias there. I don't recall a huge clan members fighting over it. It was brought up and I said that he deserved the rank and would be mentoring for me.

If you have a problem with Keanu as Historian getting lvl 1.75 and lvl 2 then he can mentor for us as well. I don't see the big deal over this as Gene has stated. Keanu is not going to leak or do anything to hurt WG with any information that he would have access to. His personality may be annoying to you, but he is very honorable when it comes to the clan.

The whole Leecable thing was pretty much blown out to be a bigger deal then it should of been. I think it was just a good laugh to Lee more than him being upset. He didn't like Keanu back then but is past that now. The Aragon 99 fire-making party was a huge mistake on Keanu's part. No real excuse for it. He did learn from it and hopefully won't make these kind of mistakes.

All in all, Keanu is far from perfect as a person or even a clan mate. But I'd still trust him over a lot of our members with sensitive materials. His goodness outweighs his stupidity that he has at times.

I've done many things in WG that I'd love to be able to go back and change. But you can't change the past but you can learn from it.

I still feel strongly that he should get his rank as was promised to him. I do not want to go back on our word to him and cause a crack in faith between him and the council. You all read the TS notes? You should of pm to me if you had an issue then before he came back to WG.

You can think this is a big bias bull shit thing if you want, but you as council members should keep that opinion in lvl 4 and not be discussing it all over the place.

By Jayson on 26/05/2011
Eh, I'm not as worried about him viewing private forums as much as him having a visible 'Historian' rank 3 days after joining.

I guess we just wait and see what the members have to say on him getting Historian rank.

By Randy on 26/05/2011
QUOTE
3. Keanu is unquestionably the most dedicated member of WG, whom I could easily trust with sensitive information and whose work as historian is SO valuable to me, I'm willing to put up with the criticism, some of which can be read if you scroll up.

He's been in the clan for 4 days.

This is complete bias towards your friends. You really think he's the most dedicated member of WG unquestionably? Are you even online while most of the clan is or even at events? No, you're not. I could name 5 more dedicated members off the top of my head. Truth is you only think that because Keanu wakes up in the morning thinking of ways to please YOU and not WG and its members. WG is taking him in because they'll do anything for a morale boost, but I guarantee it will be the same old in a few months. The Historian rank is bullshit. I said this from the very beginning. It's only an excuse for you to do less work than you already do (after all, you explained website/graphics was your burden, remember?). Keanu is one of your best friends and you know he'll never show the maturity to be a leader so that's you way of returning the favor while the rest of the clan laughs at it.

QUOTE
Bypassing trial. Why not? It's going to be a universal thing anyway. Higher and elite. Refer to First reply. Seriously, Keanu's going to have higher and elite privileges eventually and it's a small token in exchange for his ongoing work.

All of Keanu's "work" is just recording the work of other people. Because he sits there and writes a diary he deserves special treatment? That's a slap in the face to every member in WG. Do other clans have a Historian rank? No, they fucking don't and there's no problems between the members like in this clan.

Because 3/5 leaders were not at a meeting (the ones that disagree with you, coincidentally) our opinions are invalid? Is that how this leadership works? Newsflash: You don't even attend 80% of the meetings we have but we still post everything in here for opinions. You think you're being a good leader by begging someone to rejoin and instantly promoting them? If that's what this whole leadership is about then I'm glad I'm gone. Your opinion of what's "good" is clearly skewed as you can tell by WG's progress in the past 5 years.

Insulting Kevin for being lazy is a fucking joke. He does more than you tenfold.

By His_Lordship on 26/05/2011
I know he sucks up to me, and I can see that. In addition to that, he is also the most dedicated member of WG, and I will defend that when I am more awake, along with some other points.

QUOTE
He does more than you tenfold.

I'm keen to hear what.

By His_Lordship on 26/05/2011
I'm less in the mood for fighting now that my day has started, so I'm prepared to be more civil about this if everyone else is.

By His_Lordship on 26/05/2011
QUOTE
He's been in the clan for 4 days.


Yes, he has. Hardly enough time to show dedication, I know. Why I said what I said is because he was totally ridiculed by WG, banned by us, flamed by us, rep bombed by us, ignored by us, MYSELF INCLUDED, and after all the agony we caused him, he comes back to us lovingly. Who could make such a boast? I would have too much pride to do that. That is one reason I can call him dedicated without question.

QUOTE
This is complete bias towards your friends. You really think he's the most dedicated member of WG unquestionably?


Because he is my friend, that did not affect my decision. My decision was affected by WG's need for an active, hard working member to keep us ticking. To fill your shoes Randy, I could think of nobody else. He's not exactly warlord material, but he works hard. I do think he's the most dedicated, for the reason I said before and for more. Here's another one: In his previous tenure, he attended all the events (especially wars), posted in all the topics, was online a lot, and spoke to everyone. He would drop whatever he was doing in RS to join people or assist people, and I'm not talking about myself.

QUOTE
Are you even online while most of the clan is or even at events? No, you're not. I could name 5 more dedicated members off the top of my head.


It's true I am not, but I would be if I were American. This is not fair. For an Australian to be as active as an American they have to work a lot harder to do it. To attend the Aussie raid, you set your alarm for 7:45am. To attend your standard war, I set my alarm for 4:30am. I can't help being Australian and I can't be online at the times you want all the time.

QUOTE
Truth is you only think that because Keanu wakes up in the morning thinking of ways to please YOU and not WG and its members.


It is true that Keanu is tailoring his efforts towards me as he respects me a great deal. There's no way I could deny this.

QUOTE
WG is taking him in because they'll do anything for a morale boost, but I guarantee it will be the same old in a few months.


Again it is possible he could recede into his old self and cause a lot of drama. It was a risk I was willing to take, due to morale as you said. May I always be prepared to take risks for this clan. You look at the negative, but I remain optimistic that Keanu will do more good than harm.

QUOTE
The Historian rank is bullshit. I said this from the very beginning. It's only an excuse for you to do less work than you already do (after all, you explained website/graphics was your burden, remember?).


Hmm. Let me think about this one. Let's take website and graphics out of the equation. The wiki page he made has brought us recruits. His documenting of mistakes prevents us from repeating them. Additionally he has video editing and coding skills that have been put to use. Not to mention every time I hype up a war, he's there helping me.

QUOTE
Keanu is one of your best friends and you know he'll never show the maturity to be a leader so that's you way of returning the favor while the rest of the clan laughs at it.


No lie, he is not one of my best friends, but he is a friend. One day he will be mature enough to be a leader, but from his merits alone and not from his standing with me, he has earned the rank of historian, which is useful to WG, and I see that I'll need to make an IA on exactly why.
__________________

Couldn't finish responding, Gotta go to the gym now.

Randy, I must with utter humiliation concede that Keanu's brown nosing has indeed affected me, but not to the extent you think. I have great empathy for him, but not because he is my friend, but because he loves WG entirely, not just me.

I've never seen someone love WG like that. Not even me.

Yes, he tells me what I want to hear a lot of the time, but I'm mature enough to see past that and STILL find a quality member who has a lot to offer WG - much more than the cost of keeping him, which I also know to be high.

By Randy on 27/05/2011
Don't act like this argument is just with me.
At the moment, EVERY staff member minus you and Rachel are against it.
http://www.wildernessguardians.com/forum/i...ST&f=51&t=22446

By His_Lordship on 27/05/2011
Alright, lets discuss it in level 3. I'm prepared to be part of an even greater minority against the mass of leaders, because I am truly confident I can change your minds, and if I can't, you would change mine.

By RobbieThe1st on 27/05/2011
...
This is /pathetic/. Keanu gets historian -- out of anyone else who might possibly get the rank -- because Eugene trusts him, and I trust him enough to allow him access to the server. I can't say I'd trust a number of you with it.

So, with most people in agreement that he will get historian at some point, the only argument is over whether he gets it now, or in two weeks or w/e when he graduates? *sigh*... Talk about acting like children.

By Kevin on 27/05/2011
Robbie, you've missed some of the points made by Randy, Jayson and myself. It's not just about whether or not we trust him or the exact time he receives the rank.

Best to read and respond to all arguments instead of the ones you like. Also, it's not necessary to join in on the insult party.



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