Crucio....

I am sorry for making this topic but I feel it must be done.

He is the most annoying guy ever, worse than me on a a bad day and worse than any wg member I have seen in a while.

I really hate to do this but well, Should we kick Crucio?

I see him as starting Drama later, he is now, he will later, and don't think he has the maturity level to be a real accepted WG'er. He lacks the maturity to be in WG atm and well is a nuisance and will continue to be on....

For example there are member like me who just dick around every once in a while and go overboard every little while, but well IMO Crucio is well, he has gone over the line to many times and doesn't no when yo shut up, stop and let go. He seems to lack the ability to even understand how WG works after 3-4 weeks in wg.....Sure he is pretty dedicated but(man i feel like a real bastard for saying this) but well, is it worth it, the trouble hes caused and will cause?

His first week in WG was hell, his 2nd and 3rd were better, but I don't think he can control himself. He lacks maturity at basically any scale and I don't feel like he should stay a part of our community, I am sorry for saying this as its been against what I have believed in for a long time, but well.....I am sorry but I really cant find out how I can allow, like, and have Crucio in WG with how he is now......

There really aren't any real grounds for kicking him but....well I think his maturity, or lack there of, is enough...

Just vote and stuff.
Sorry if I have offended anyone or if this is extremely going to far, but I feel that this poll needed to be made, for the sake of not just a few members whom I no hate him, but for all the wg members that may leave because of him, the members who will hate him and the drama that will be caused later.

Again sorry, but I had to make this post.

No.

You should realize that there is a person behind that computer screen. Someone who would react the same way as you if you were in that situation. He is just trying to be himself, just trying to fit in. WG is a clan of many personalities, to kick someone for being different is wrong. I know he can be annoying and immiture, but he's just a kid.

When I first joined WG about a year and a half ago, it was my first time being around a large (and back then, I mean LARGE) group of people. I was 13 or 14, just like Crucio. To this day, I remember going on Teamspeak and not knowing anyone. As annoying as I was, I blasted music into a chatroom filled with people because I thought it was cool/funny. I clearly remember someone dragging me into a private chatroom (I think his name was Morgan?) and yelling and cursing at me. I was on the verge of quitting until my friend K_Y_L_E talked me out of it, and showed me how to fit it in .

Moral of the story? People change. I wasn't always the Randy you know now. As hopeless as Crucio seems, there is always a chance. If people would take five seconds out of their day just to say Hi to him, he will stop asking for attention.

Give him another chance.

Yes.
To build on Randy's argument.
Sure people change.
Judging from experience, it's happened to several other members.
But it would take like a year.
And in that time the drama would be massive... even if I wasn't part of it.
I potentially see this guy causing people to leave.

So yes people change Randy, but he's going to take us through hell before that happens.

I will do anything possible to keep that kid out of WG.
I have a major grudge against him and even if I didn't, there is ample reason to deem his as too immature and too much of a threat to the community.

If he was to come in the chat and be like

HAI
HEY GUYS
HEY
HAI
HAI

Saying "Crucio, please stop spamming, and Hi" rather than "Shut up you immiture little fuck" will bring much better results than the ones we're seeing now. I hate to treat people as lab experiments, but it's the truth. He'll react better if everyone doesn't snap at him. If we just lay down the rules, make him understand, then it will settle in his head.

We tried.
I ignored him for a whole week and the more I tried not to talk to him the more keen we was to talk to me. I started politely, then bluntly, then with threats and none of them sunk in.

I always try to ignore or confront people that shit me before I move to get them kicked.
This kid is different.

He sparted spamming about how he saved us from getting blacklisted from The Alliance and stuff.

In the end when I told him not to talk to me, he was doing shit like:

1. In the public channel where he knew I was active he'd say "Member X can you please tell His Lordship to do this and this because I can't talk to him"

2. /me wishes he could tell His Lordship to add him on MSN but he can't because he's not supposed to be speaking to him

3. /me slaps His lordship (times 10)

And that's all trivial stuff. Apparently he loots wars and leaks worlds and evades bans.

True, but there's a reason he's annoying YOU of all people. Not like he's joining the chat and going KINGRANDY0 OMG HAI! I believe he feels like the best way to fit in is to try and get close to the leadership of WG. Iv'e noticed ever since hes joined that he mainly talks to you and Abs. The reason being is that he expects someone in the leadership to be "that guy" who helps him fit in.

Obviously I could be wrong, and he could be the idiot i'm trying not to make him sound like, but it's a good message on future "crucios" that will join WG, and how we should treat them.

From what I've seen of Crucio he is very arrogant and lacks respect for other members. He has already had a very bumpy ride as a trial member, being suspended once. Also he appears to me to be power hungry or to want some level of authority. He applied for raid leader as a trial guardian and was asking Abs in irc today to take a moderator role for inactivates when Abs was discussing an idea. It's a bit too for coming for someone who's on their trial period in the clan to want to take up some high level rank and not just because he's keen but just to have authority.

I agree with Eugene even though he could approach Crucio a little better I can see he's seriously frustrated by him and can't blame him for it. I foresee a lot more problems before it gets better and for that I voted yes. If he doesn't get kicked he'll need some serious mentoring or someone who's willing to help him adapt to a clan atmosphere so he doesn't cause himself more problems.

I'm really 50/50 on this.
I voted no, only simply because he's actually a person who has feelings.
Yes, he is the most annoying little shit I have ever seen, however, he is a real human person.

Yes, I have seen him ask abs + lordy continuous stuff, however idk somebody just needs to set him back in his place, say

"Look i know lordy + abs are (ex)leaders, however you're continuously bugging them which annoys them. They really don't like you for that and the more you try to communicate with them, the more they dislike you. Atm you are a trial guardian, so please stop begging and asking for positions of power. We have had lots of members in wg for 6+ months who would be a lot more suitable for a leadership position than you."

If nothing becomes of this, I would not see a problem in banning him.

I don't think he should be kicked out of the clan just for simply annoying someone. Some people deem him annoying, while others don't.

I've seen the way he posts, I've seen him at some events, I've seem the way he acts on our IRC, yes. It might get on alot of people's nerves, yes. But why can't you just forget about it? Like, stop talking to him or something if you find him annoying. Absolutely outrageous if he gets banned for something like this.

Sorry but I voted Yes.
This is not the right place for him.
He hasn't caused any BIG drama yet but he has caused small once too many times.
We will be better without him even though it might be wrong to kick him.

I nulled my voice.

If people want him out of clan I think it's not up to Lordy anymore.

Haven't really noticed him causing any trouble and don't see any proof of him causing drama.
Voted no.
Just because he is annoying on IRC means he should be kicked? Oh please.
If that was the case so many people should've been kicked a long time ago. Groedius , for instance , spams IRC pretty much every time he's on it.

Also , doesn't bad spelling annoy you Kiwi?

all the harry potter shit alone is annoying -.-

I do not see any reason for him to be kicked. You guys just need to lighten up with him. You guys need to be the ones that take the inniative to pm him and say hey whats up?
Just give him some time and I will begin to talk to him and hopefully he will open up to me. I will try and see why he really acts the way he does.

Kiwi. you said 'READ POST FIRST FFS', but the post is just your opinion, and its biased.

If you're going to make a topic for people to read along with a vote, please do not make it biased, or based on your opinion. Outline brief reasons from either side. That is why leaders should make these sorts of topics, because they are, on average, less bias. By speaking in such a way, it skews the vote.

I voted no.

There's no rule in the clan requiring a certain level of maturity, or an age. Sure, you play it by ear and ban them if needs be, but I don't see any grounds to ban him.

The only thing he's done (that I have yet seen - please give something else if there is anything) is obtained a bad relationship with lordy. He acts immature, then gets openly bullied and insulted. I'll take a rule straight from the clan site:

"If a person offends you, and you insult them back, you will both be punished regardless of who started it."

The bullying of crucio has gone far past that rule, and we've turned a blind eye to it.

Its very easy to be biased and say get rid of him, but we're bending the rules and performing a witch hunt. Witch hunting is what made a mess back in 2007, let's not do it again. We want WG to be an accomodating clan.

Providing crucio ignores lordy (and me and buzz, at least, will come down hard on crucio if he tries to communicate with lordy in any way), that should be the end of it. He shouldn't cause drama providing no one backs him into a corner. He is not what I call 'malelovant', he doesn't start fights for the sake of it, he's just slightly childlike at times.

Let's keep up what we call the friendly atmosphere, and not point the finger.

My opinion, take it or leave it.

Its not me vs him Mike.
It's him vs like a dozen members.
This is only going to get bigger and worse.

Why was he banned without a post in hall of shame?

Its not him v. several WG, its him v. you, with quite a few members on your side. He hasn't really annoyed anyone else directly, in honesty (except spanthrax, but from the logs, that looks to be span's fault).

But there again, if we are a democracy, they're free to decide either way.

I voted no

Why do you guys want him banned? I've heard several reasons:
"He's an idiot"
"He's annoying"
"He's a hinderance to the clan and our organization"

However, being an idiot isnt a bannable offence, and neither should annoyance. The grudge between him and several members of WG shouldnt be resolved by removing one side out of the equation; It could easily be resolved by having one side ignore the other, yet both sides are being persistant and stubborn.

I will admit that Crucio needs a character change. I've talked to him personally, warning him to avoid talking to Lordy, but he was being immature about it and trying to play with Lordy's words. If he does not change, it will become a bigger problem

I will also admit that he can be annoying and persistant. And an idiot. But everyone copes with him fine except for a few people.

I think that Crucio should be given an extended trial period, where he will be warned beforehand to behave. If he can handle this extended week or two, we will allow him in.

You guys that dont like him gotta learn to ignore him or adapt to him. Removing him should NOT be an answer.

WG has not been the friendly environment it should be to all new trial members. Open up, try being nice. See what happens.

Bottom of the line, his attitude must change, and the people dont like him must lighten up an adapt. If both sides can do this, we'll have no problem.

Well sorry to say i voted yes

even thought Cruico hasn't caused any problems to me presonally but i have seen the problems he has caused to other members of WG such as irratating them and showing them signs of disrespect and yes if could change but that will take quite alot of time for him to become mature enough to be apart of a clan such as WG

~Flamey

I voted no, most of you already know where I stand on this from seeing IRC.

I'm really on the fence here too.
The first day I saw him on IRC I joined in making fun of him, however since then I have made a point of trying to be as kind as possible to him.

What is frustrating is that when I ask him a question he refuses to even answer me. I do see some of the power hunger where he only bothers speaking to people of authority.

I'm voting yes though.
Sure this clan is one that gives everyone a chance, but it is not one that is for all people. Frankly there are going to be those who don't fit in, and although fighting to let them stay on a matter of principle is an honorable thing to do, we can't let one member divide us like this. If him being gone means we can get back to focusing on important matters and not trivial ones such as this, then he needs to go.

I realize he has done nothing to justify this directly, but he simply doesn't fit in. I can't think of any groups in the real world that let or encourage someone to continue attending and participating if they are obnoxious and get on the bad side of many members of said group.

He is like the annoying younger kid who will do anything to get attention, whether its negative or not doesn't matter, it is attention.
He reminds me a lot of Scarface/Morgan in that respect.
I thought it over, I suspected he is a lot older than he claims and is here to just cause trouble.
I hate to kick someone for something like this because there are member who have done a LOT worse and they are still around.
He does not seem to want to make the effort to fit in though.
This is a tough call, if he's smart he will listen to the people who are trying to help him rather than just wanting the attention.
I feel sorry for him, and I feel sorry for Eugene.
He is just beginning to enjoy his retirement, and is hit with this. Lordy has rights too, and to have to put up with harrassment is not right.
Read our rules of WG.

Null, Idk who he even is :X

*Looks at his 40% warn*
Yes...
And mike... I wouldn't have this warn level for flaming him if he hadn't annoyed me directly....

No. And why is this even an argument?

If annoyance is a fault that warrants a kick then I would think several number of members would've have gotten the boot many times over throughout the glorious history of e-dramas. And this is way too light to even consider true-blue e-dramas or whatever danger spells to the community.

If it is his immaturity that annoys, to kick him in return for that isn't mature either.

Some annoyance are innocent. There are far more better examples and damaging "annoyance" that qualifies bans. If must show him out of the door, then better start showing many others before him out of the door at the same time. Just because he isn't mature doesn't make him a criminal, if he cannot fit in it doesn't mean condemning him.

We cannot expect everyone to be liked by everyone, including those in 'power' or stature, if we must pull all these into perspective. If the decision is based on an objective reason, it can be supported. But this is clearly more subjective and bias.

Ranting over a young kid for show of childish disrespect, how childish does it make one for even fuming over it in the first place?

I don't see annoyance as one of the rules that warrants a kick? What about let's put that into the rules - what would you think anyone who read such a rule would think to have such a rule up there? And if that doesn't seemed to ring a right bell, then reflect why before even implementing a kick for it.

If must kick be very sure for doing so its because of an objective reason that warrants it, not based on speculations that's blowing this way out of proportion that's bias and subjective, becoming clearly the act of a bully. There is a huge difference.

Annoyance itself is an invalid excuse for a kick.
But annoyance leads onto instability and degradation of community.
Consider these more preventative measures more than punishment.

Please, if you're going to referr to specific IRC events, supply logs for them. Especially where 2 people are concerned.

(Preferably condensed logs)

Its much more fair to decide from the primary evidence (chat logs, pictures) than the secondary evidence (someone's elses interpretation of the event), however secure the secondary evidence is likely to be.

I Nulled my vote because I'm not familiar with Crucio.
But, if the problem is as bad as some have said it is,
And could perhaps cause trouble in the future,

Warn him that he's on the verge of being Kicked from WG.
If that's nto motivation enough for his attitude to change,
Then I could see him being that way for the rest of the time in WG.
Which would be enough reason for a kick (In my opinion)

I voted yes, however if it were possible, i'd change it to a 'Null'

The reason i primarily voted yes was because he for one, almost got the ENTIRE CLAN blacklisted from using pest control clans in the PCA... which is completely selfish to other members who use PC as their form of training. And also because of his immaturity and flame baiting on IRC.

However, having given this more thought, those aren't exaclty grounds for kicking. Perhaps warning, perhaps even a last chance, but still possibly not a straight out kick. If he displayed more ways in which he was negatively affecting the clan as a whole unit (e.g. by almost getting WG banned from pest control) then yes i'd agree that he would/should be banned. At this stage, probably not though.

~Mugger84

I'll show the log from that first example, and highlight the areas to show a different point of view. Crucio's main bit is isolated in the middle.

20:20:25] <JoeSauce> duel me?
[20:20:27] <maths> ya
[20:20:28] <maths> yay
[20:20:30] <maths> omfg yay
[20:20:31] * maths party
[20:20:32] * Crucio01 has joined #wg
[20:20:32] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Crucio01
[20:20:34] <JonSauce> aww
[20:20:35] <[spanthrax]busy> crucio you dont stand a chance at killing me you cock sucking short bus special
[20:20:35] <Vince|Gh3> Crucio, can I duel you?
[20:20:36] <JonSauce> its over
[20:20:42] <JoeSauce> its over
[20:20:44] <JonSauce> crucio casn i duel u
[20:20:45] <AnDoKiDeS> rofl
[20:20:46] <maths> crucio come duel arena w27
[20:20:46] <maths> crucio come duel arena w27
[20:20:53] <General199> wow
[20:20:53] <Tmal34> we mite hav miniwar guys @!@!@31
[20:20:55] <General199> take it easy guys
[20:20:56] <Indivi|Busy> !cmb quickdrawjoe
[20:20:57] * Lil_Runeika has joined #wg
[20:20:57] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Lil_Runeika
[20:20:59] <Tmal34> glennykins and tmal r working on it
[20:21:05] * JoeSauce is now known as Joe|Dinner
[20:21:09] <Joe|Dinner> I'm not coming
[20:21:12] <Crucio01> maths
[20:21:14] <Joe|Dinner> Glenn...
[20:21:15] <Crucio01> it was joke -.-
[20:21:16] <Crucio01> but ok
[20:21:18] <Crucio01> ill come
[20:21:21] <Joe|Dinner> Well he did things I didn't liek!!!!!!!!!
[20:21:22] * Arsenalfan32 sets mode: +b *!*@Swift-68A35470.hsd1.ut.comcast.net
[20:21:22] * [spanthrax]busy was kicked by Arsenalfan32 (Stop harassing members. I've had enough of this.)
[20:21:28] <Joe|Dinner> owned
[20:21:28] <Crucio01> maths
[20:21:30] <Crucio01> once i beat u
[20:21:34] <Crucio01> im gonna post screenie in here
[20:21:35] * Joe|Dinner is now known as Joe|AFK
[20:21:36] <maths> k
[20:21:43] <Crucio01> and everyone is gonna be like 0_o
[20:21:44] <maths> you can have unlimited attempts
[20:21:50] <AnDoKiDeS> lol
[20:21:52] <Crucio01> kk
[20:21:54] <JonSauce> why was he banned?
[20:22:10] <Arsenalfan32> Nonstop harassing Crucio, it's enough.
[20:22:23] * [spanthrax] has joined #wg
[20:22:23] * Buzz sets mode: +v [spanthrax]
[20:22:23] * ChanServ sets mode: +v [spanthrax]
[20:22:23] <maths> i coming w27 now
[20:22:35] <Crucio01> k
[20:22:40] * Kiwi011|DINNER is now known as Kiwi011
[20:22:43] * Evil[Revision] sets mode: -b *!*@Swift-68A35470.hsd1.ut.comcast.net
[20:22:53] <[spanthrax]> GO FUCK YOURSELF GLEN U FUCKING HYPOCRITE
[20:23:04] <General199> take it easy guys
[20:23:07] * Pur3laugh|afk has quit IRC (Client exited)
[20:23:14] <Vince|Gh3> Everybody just relax..
[20:23:16] <AnDoKiDeS> someone is angry O.O
[20:23:17] <bto> cmon guys ..
[20:23:20] <Crucio01> glenn its ok, let him bully me =[ im used to it
[20:23:22] <Vince|Gh3> Go play some Guitar Hero to get it off your mind. (Y)
[20:23:26] <[spanthrax]> you god dam right im pissed
[20:23:26] <Kiwi011> o.0 what happened while i was gone.....
[20:23:27] <General199> no crucio
[20:24:04] <Kiwi011> o.0 what happened while i was gone.....
[20:24:18] <[spanthrax]> it dont concern you kiwi
~
[20:39:45] <Crucio01> GUYS!!
[20:39:50] <Crucio01> I OWNED SPANNY IN DUEL ARENA!!
[20:39:51] <Vince|H3> Crucio, refresh your Graduation post.
[20:39:52] <Crucio01> EH WAS LIKE GF
[20:39:54] <[spanthrax]> owned my ass
[20:39:55] <Crucio01> AND HES LIKE NOO
[20:39:56] <Crucio01> AND I OWNED!!
[20:39:59] <Crucio01> lmao!!
[20:40:02] <Crucio01> who wants a screenie
~
[20:40:06] <[spanthrax]> u had to use redemtion u cock sucking ass fucker
[20:40:09] <[spanthrax]> thats not owning
[20:40:11] <[spanthrax]> so gf
[20:40:18] <Kiwi011> ..............
[20:40:26] <[spanthrax]> tahts the only reason u won
[20:40:35] <[spanthrax]> so go fuck yourself kay?
[20:40:37] <Wace555> ok
[20:40:37] <Vince|H3> Span, why do you always have to swear at him? =\
[20:40:39] <Wace555> wut the hell
[20:40:40] <Angus0000> god damnit
[20:40:45] * Joe|AFK is now known as QuikdrawJoe
[20:40:46] <Wace555> i thought his lordship was asian
[20:40:50] <[spanthrax]> cuz i fucking hate him with a passion?
[20:40:52] <QuikdrawJoe> He is
[20:40:52] <Kiwi011> he is
[20:47:03] <Crucio01> ok
[20:47:15] <QuikdrawJoe> They're good at the anti
[20:47:18] <Vince|H3> I kinda wanna duel him, tbh.
[20:47:22] <[spanthrax]> DONT
[20:47:24] <Crucio01> erm and guys, yes im a bad tank
[20:47:24] <Crucio01> =[
[20:47:25] <Vince|H3> BUt I'm in the middle of a task. :|
[20:47:27] <[spanthrax]> HE SWITCHES RULES AND SHIT
[20:47:35] <Kiwi011> spanth...enough
[20:47:37] <Crucio01> wtf?
[20:47:39] <Crucio01> i dint
[20:47:40] <[spanthrax]> fuck you kiwi
[20:47:43] <QuikdrawJoe> Evil, said enough, that means enough.
[20:47:45] <[spanthrax]> im not in a good mood
[20:47:47] <Kiwi011> gladly
[20:47:49] <Kiwi011> i noticed
[20:47:56] <Kiwi011> just let it go and ignore him
[20:48:14] <Buzz> wow moms being a bitch cause i borrowed 2 batteries for my mouse to let my other 2 charge
[20:48:15] <[spanthrax]> that kind of blatent stupidity cant be ignored
[20:48:20] <Arsenalfan32> Miniwar versus FT at 10:30 EST tonight Matched Options.
[20:48:21] <Arsenalfan32> Miniwar versus FT at 10:30 EST tonight Matched Options.
[20:48:26] <Buzz> wont be there
[20:48:31] <QuikdrawJoe> FFS
[20:48:31] <[spanthrax]> neither will i
[20:48:32] <QuikdrawJoe> Buzz
[20:48:35] <QuikdrawJoe> Let me talk to her
[20:48:39] <Angus0000> ill be there if i can kill this fucking ghost
[20:48:41] <[spanthrax]> will be too busy commiting suicide



I don't want to target spanthrax specifically, but he's the one which highlighted crucio in this scenario.

From what it looks like, there was bullying going on from the start, unless the 'i'll duel you crucio' was a hoke.

Crucio never once used bad language there, he just acted as an over-excited and slightly annoying kid. He was showing off like a kid would.

Yeah, he created a bit of drama, but didn't spanthrax? Saying he's "commiting suicide" over losing a maxmimum of 30k in a duel? You don't over-dramatise it like that, you take it to the leaders who can act on it and smooth things over.


In cases like this, both people have to be punished accordingly. Crucio should get a talking to explaining why what he did was wrong, and given a warning level if necessary. Crucio was provoked, and when immature people are provoked, they get worse. If someone wants to be in a clan, you shouldn't shun them for making a mistake.

If we do it in the proper way, and give a warning level each instance, we'll eventually see if it warrants a ban. Its obvious than in this scenario many people are going by their gut instinct, not evidence and evaluation. When they jump on the bandwagon, its going to become innacurate. Similiar for both sides - some people may think 'some people think he's ok, so i'll go along with them'.


You need member votes in specific circumstances (for example, when i_love_99917 looted arrows, or another single instance). Its too grey for people to have a mass vote on a banning or keeping of a member, especially when there's no evidence presented, and its likely to worsen the drama.


Let's avoid the mass crucio-bashings and deal with each individual event as it comes, and not back him into a corner. When the leaders have tried to mature him (to a point, we're not completely adopting him, just giving him a chance), and feel enough is enough, he'll be suspended or banned accordingly.

Its obvious he likes the clan, or else he would've been out when he heard lordy, and others, openly bashing him in public. We're a home to him. If/when the limit is appropriately reached, he'll be banned.

totally agree spanth went way overboard too, but you also missed crucio spamming his trade about him beating spanth and even when asked to stop, he didnt, spanth at least left the room after a while.

He got banned(unfairly) already didn't he?
Even if all this does get him unbanned I doubt he'd want to come back.
Kiwi , of facking course he spammed. He beat some one higher combat than him who challenged him and said he had no chance. That doesn't say that he's immature, just excited. I'm not saying he isn't immature , but saying he is just based on that IRC incident is a load of bollocks.

Spantrax , if anyone , was being immature. You were actually in IRC then and you even told him to stop. How did you end up wanting to get crucio banned?

In regards to that dueling thing tnuac.
Crucio started spamming the irc "omfg I could beat you all in a duel I could own you"
I'm like ok, come duel arena world 27.

However this is the important part.
He was being such an idiot about dueling me.
He kept trying to turn on pots/food.
He did this to spanthrax too.

A duel is a duel.
The standard rules are no food/pots, prayer allowed.
He was being so cheap in turning on his pro melee + it took 5 mins to set up a duel just to not have pots in it.

[20:39:45] <Crucio01> GUYS!!
[20:39:50] <Crucio01> I OWNED SPANNY IN DUEL ARENA!!

You only showed part of the story there.
You weren't even at the duel arena when he started being immature.
All he wanted was to prove himself right.
However he did so in the most cheapest way.

[20:47:27] <[spanthrax]> HE SWITCHES RULES AND SHIT
^ Now you didn't highlight this sentence did you.

Why wouldn't we hate him?
I'm sorry, I wasn't going to give him the satisfaction of my kill pic.
I won all the duels with him

Alright, thanks for the insight maths. (All I had to run on prior to that was that log, and projecture)

Although, i'm not a leader, it needs someone in authority to collect sufficient evidence to deal with it accordingly (+ hopefully efficiently).

This is the issue with coming in and look8ing at chat log's to get a "Full" understanding of what happened in a situation.

Mike

I suspended crucio for 24 hours after that chat log which you have posted, why you may ask? Because he did not just spam in IRC, he decided that it was a good idea to post in the compliments section of the forum after I SPECIFICALLY told him to stop.

I dont disagree that it was poorly dealt with, you may notice I was extremely busy at the time (I had an exam either that day or the next day?) and was only checking the IRC every so often. I came back to find a PM from an elite guardian with a link to "delete this asap" which I opened expecting to find porn of some sort, instead it was a screenie of Span Dieing and a condascending comment by crucio.

To everyone

I have tried my best to work with him, after his suspension I have had several long discussions with him covering anything from why I suspended him to why I am not letting him graduate yet.

You cannot forget that unless you are on IRC more than me (and there would be very few people in WG that are) you will miss out on at least a decent proportion of what he has done. Yes parth, I dont blame him for spamming for a bit after he bet spanthrax.... I would do so too, but he spammed for quite a long time, definitewly excessively, and even though Mike has cut it out above you can see from what Joe said I had asked them both to stop.

In the end, he has been banned (not by me I might add) and I very much doubt he will be allowed back in WG any time soon.

~Evil

--Edit--

Sorry about the poor spelling, I am on a different computer to normal and its keyboard is shit.

He was banned unfairly and actually still wants to come back.

Its completely understandable you don't want to get too deeply involved during exam period evil, its the last thing you need. Nothing needed to be immediately done, but just straightened out in the future.

Sorry it seems you have been shown the same log that I saw recently, that was edited quite a bit.

Guys my advice is to accept council's decision, which based on Evil's post it is, and just move on.

All of you are big for standing up for what's right and that is great. However council has chosen to let him stay banned and none of you were friends with him anyways.

The fact is that it is no big loss to WG unless we turn it into one.
Move on, be done with it.

I cant say about anything to do with his activities in wildy. However from what i see in IRC he seems to be creating rifts in wg we dont nee.

he was really anoying

His banning wasn't done by council, or Abs for that matter. Was "forced" by Eugene.

You'll probably never thank me for it, but you will be enjoying the benefits of that decision in the future.

Like I said.
He's gone.
We can sit here and bitch at each other.
Or we can let it go and move on.
Either way he is gone.

RANT of EXPLANATION

Despite what's being said I wanted to experience for myself who is this "annoyance" so many speak of.

And I managed to hold a more than 4 hours conversation with him spanning from all sorts of perspectives such as the little joys of playing a game such as RS and his experiences of thoughts. One of the nicest individuals I've come across.

As far as I can tell, he is nothing near the malice sort. It even pains me to see that he has landed in this duress when by far I've seen and experienced far more worse - even worse more, supposedly matured individuals by age but act worse than a 3 years old - and one who happens to be less of a 15 year old and enough to be more than that in personality. And if he had been disrespectful, it wasn't even of pure intention. But a duress for being hurt and confused.

Perhaps we could say its pretence. Perhaps we could attribute it to both EQ and IQ. Some have the benefit of both, while others have the benefit of either. Some even neither. In the end - which counts? Intelligent but hypocritical PR skills or rude honest trumpets?

He doesn't even know who the heck I am or why thence I am talking to him besides being some random fella coming in. But he was all in honesty to ask whenever. Oh yes, I have some of our logs.

Just one outright, open and honest convo that could stretch this long, I found it not only enjoyable but one that has built a basic respect for each other regardless the age or experience, it was the pure sincerity.

He doesn't need to be clever or powerful. He's only innocently being honest - even if rude, he hadn't meant so for being honest. For someone to have been judged as an in convenience being annoying, it can be misunderstood with innocence. Sometimes its a 2 way thing, a defence for being disrespected given in some uncalled convenience.

So, why is he such an annoyance? Why did he become "disrespectful"?

How do you feel when you're being cornered and don't understand why? How do you feel when you're judged and don't understand why? Except you're being judged for being honest?

Ah, lack of EQ skills perhaps? What a shame.

He is NOT a misfit. He happens to be misunderstood and not tolerated especially for being a total blank. Personally, I will not thank such a decision to kick him. Instead, I will question the length of being gracious to see eye to eye with an individual regardless of rank and to know if those titles have marred a judgment in being hurt in pride or have been enough to still hold the humbleness to speak one to one - regardless. Taking it from there, the basics, to judge.

To respect even if for being stupid. Being one is not to be served. Being one is to serve. There is a vast difference in holding these different views with the very same rank.

He could have been spoken to, to be understood. A suspension could have been more appropriate. But a ban is a drastic measure. A clan of chances, given to so many who have made even worse mistakes and errors in their times here. And he, for this time, kicked for such reasons. I question the view of degradation from annoyance as oppose to those who were given chances to have degrade from malice and rebellions - because they are - mature "enough" to be given so?

I hope he is not banned from the guest lobby #wg_lobby as a result of this. He knows nothing about what I'm saying here. But one thing I do know, if there is failure in speaking to him and getting the messages to him - it can be done more.

Understanding - the ability to see from another's POV and position other than yours.

I see nothing of "moving on, he's gone." because he's gone not for moving on but somehow, some quizzical duress that whoever wishes to bank on it - have their wishes come true.

You could have given him the chance and guide him. Extend his trial period if required, build an understanding before that final kick. Not even a chance was given for some innocent blank childish acts when chances have been given for so many unlike him.

A judgment as such. Regretfully, a judgment that will refuse to undo itself. And I see it will prove to be so. Thank you, for moving on. And we move on.

...why even bother to have rules when bans are totally arbitrary?

Intention and Action are two very different things.
I have concurred several times that Crucio was not intentionally annoying.
However Valdremia, his presence in a group dynamic is very different from how he is in a private conversation.

As good as his intentions are, it does not reconcile the fact that he has pissed of half of WG. I can't afford to say more as I need to study for an exam now.

I am not taking sides on this matter, I trust the council with the decision.

~Ali

WG is supposed to be a welcoming community to help those that lack social skills. Didn't Lordy do that so well with a kid a while ago that his mom sent him a letter? For the little I know about Crucio he's just a guy who needs friends, I want to help him. His dedication to the clan shows how much he wants to be apart of our community and we should let him! He's a good kid please give him a chance.



Brandon

From what I see, WG has always been known as a great clan. We are known as a friendly community. I just think everyone deserves a chance to adapt to WG. Nobody's perfect but everyone deserves a few chances to improve themselves. Its not always gonna be good to begin with but it will improve later. Everyone has their goods and bads. Crucio is a good person. He's only 13 I think and he's still learning at this point. I just don't think anyone should be judge at all. Wether its Crucio Or Eugene. I'm not picking any sides. I just don't want to see anyone get hurt. Everyone is different in their own ways.. No one should have to change themself for anyone or anything.. they could try to improve themself but their character is what make them who they are. I just hope everything goes well and we have a good ending. Don't want to see anything bad go wrong.

I'm going to close this topic now, it's of no use now as he's not in the clan anymore. Thank you to everyone that voted and posted their opinions.

~Buzz