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Let's set some standards
By David on 16/11/2008
Ok, well I've just read a few more posts on Ragingwealth's topic about more activity in F2P (needless to say we need more activity in general, but lets just stick with PvP stuff for now). I totally agree. We have 1-2 wars a month and then some P2P raids during the week (so I've heard, I'm pretty busy now during the week so I don't log-on that often). Some people are entertaining the thought of unplanned/planned PKRIs for us once a week (or something like that as a start). I think this would help our clan in multiple ways:
1. Make us better fighters. As we saw from Elias' diagram, fighting is the basis of the clan, and if it crumbles the entire clan suffers.
2. Builds a sense of 'togetherness'. We already have that in the form of community, but what I mean is the fact that everyone would be working for those five or 10 sets of Rune to use in a PKRI each week. We'd know that everyone is doing the same thing for the same reason. We'd be like a single unit.
3. Encourage partnership. Some of us know that we're not great money makers. Some of us are great money makers. Since we'd all be working for the same thing, it'd make sense for the money makers help the poorer members make some money so they can come to each PKRI and have some fun.
So, I think we need to set the bar a little higher. Some people use the excuse of being poor for not coming to PKRIs. I use it personally. I've got 400k in cash, and I think of myself as poor. Someone else might think of me as very rich. That is where the problem comes from. I'd like to direct you to this topic:
Ragingwealth's Topic
Please read Mathsnerd18's post at the bottom of the page. That is what got me thinking.
We all have a different idea of what poor is. I think anything under 1M is poor. Some might feel that anything under 10M is poor. Some might feel anything over a set of Rune and an Abyssal Whip is rich. It's all personal opinion.
I say we set a standard not just for wealth and such, but for certain aspects of the clan in general, and really enforce them. This way everyone would know what 'poor' is in terms of our standards. That way we wouldn't get people who have 10M+ but think anything under 20M is poor so they feel they can't spend money on the Rune sets because they want to be above the 'poor' line.
This is just one thing we can set a standard for, and I'll leave the rest of them up to the Council because that is something they should handle.
Some might think of this as a way of dividing the clan into rich and poor, but it's more of a way to know who just doesn't have the means to attend the events that are important in terms of reputation and recruitment (just want to make sure people know I'm not saying PvP events are more important in general, but it's obvious that is all the clan world cares about so we need that aspect of WG to shine for the audience). With things like this, we'd know who needs help making 1M each week so they can attend the next PKRI, or who needs help doing some quests or gaining 100k exp quickly so they can attend the weekly ToG event.
Just a thought.
1. Make us better fighters. As we saw from Elias' diagram, fighting is the basis of the clan, and if it crumbles the entire clan suffers.
2. Builds a sense of 'togetherness'. We already have that in the form of community, but what I mean is the fact that everyone would be working for those five or 10 sets of Rune to use in a PKRI each week. We'd know that everyone is doing the same thing for the same reason. We'd be like a single unit.
3. Encourage partnership. Some of us know that we're not great money makers. Some of us are great money makers. Since we'd all be working for the same thing, it'd make sense for the money makers help the poorer members make some money so they can come to each PKRI and have some fun.
So, I think we need to set the bar a little higher. Some people use the excuse of being poor for not coming to PKRIs. I use it personally. I've got 400k in cash, and I think of myself as poor. Someone else might think of me as very rich. That is where the problem comes from. I'd like to direct you to this topic:
Ragingwealth's Topic
Please read Mathsnerd18's post at the bottom of the page. That is what got me thinking.
We all have a different idea of what poor is. I think anything under 1M is poor. Some might feel that anything under 10M is poor. Some might feel anything over a set of Rune and an Abyssal Whip is rich. It's all personal opinion.
I say we set a standard not just for wealth and such, but for certain aspects of the clan in general, and really enforce them. This way everyone would know what 'poor' is in terms of our standards. That way we wouldn't get people who have 10M+ but think anything under 20M is poor so they feel they can't spend money on the Rune sets because they want to be above the 'poor' line.
This is just one thing we can set a standard for, and I'll leave the rest of them up to the Council because that is something they should handle.
Some might think of this as a way of dividing the clan into rich and poor, but it's more of a way to know who just doesn't have the means to attend the events that are important in terms of reputation and recruitment (just want to make sure people know I'm not saying PvP events are more important in general, but it's obvious that is all the clan world cares about so we need that aspect of WG to shine for the audience). With things like this, we'd know who needs help making 1M each week so they can attend the next PKRI, or who needs help doing some quests or gaining 100k exp quickly so they can attend the weekly ToG event.
Just a thought.
By Ragingwealth on 16/11/2008
Well, we could do mass GWD/KBD/Barrows/Other monster hunting events, it's very hard to get a GWD team in WG to be perfectly honest, so we could find a better alternative in Official GWD Events.
That way, it will be open for everyone. Excluding PvP we mainly have fun and skilling events. We could try to fit in a few more money making events.
That way, it will be open for everyone. Excluding PvP we mainly have fun and skilling events. We could try to fit in a few more money making events.
By David on 16/11/2008
| QUOTE (Ragingwealth @ November 16, 2008 02:44 pm) |
| Well, we could do mass GWD/KBD/Barrows/Other monster hunting events, it's very hard to get a GWD team in WG to be perfectly honest, so we could find a better alternative in Official GWD Events. That way, it will be open for everyone. Excluding PvP we mainly have fun and skilling events. We could try to fit in a few more money making events. |
It's not just money though.
What I'm getting at is this:
We set a standard that anything under 1M is considered poor and it is understandable if people aren't able to show up for PKRIs or return during them. This weeds out people who think under 5M or 10M is poor, and gives some people space to earn money when their personal opinion is anything over 500k is 'rich', so they constantly spend their money on Rune and aren't able to actually enjoy themselves.
So with such a standard set, then yes we'd host more GWD events, or DKs or Barrows or whatever works.
By Ragingwealth on 16/11/2008
| QUOTE (1colonel1 @ November 16, 2008 02:08 pm) | ||
It's not just money though. What I'm getting at is this: We set a standard that anything under 1M is considered poor and it is understandable if people aren't able to show up for PKRIs or return during them. This weeds out people who think under 5M or 10M is poor, and gives some people space to earn money when their personal opinion is anything over 500k is 'rich', so they constantly spend their money on Rune and aren't able to actually enjoy themselves. So with such a standard set, then yes we'd host more GWD events, or DKs or Barrows or whatever works. |
With this standard however..I can see some abuse.
For instance, some people may lie, some people may provide fake pictures, some people may keep their money value in certain items, some people may decide to do other things other than money making intentionally so they don't attend PKRI's and PK trips. (Keyword is in the bolded word btw)
The only valid reason people would have is being F2P, as you can't make money in F2P decently without 85 mining.
There are a lot of other manipulative ways people could use, which is why I disagree with a set standard, sorry mate =/
By David on 16/11/2008
I can see some abuse happening right now...is this any better than what I'm suggesting?
We could require bank pictures to show the amount of cash people have. Have this happen every week or something like that. Something. Obviously some people will go out of their way to avoid PKRIs, and eventually they'll be caught. If we host several money making events, they'll have no excuse. They were given aid, refused it and chose to be left alone.
I know what the keyword was, I do that often myself...
Honestly, I'm starting to think people don't want this clan to change. Instead of saying "Hey, that is an interesting idea, but instead of having it this way, because I don't think it would work this way, we could try another way which I think is better, and we could then come to a compromise," we get "I disagree because *reason 1*, *reason 2*, *reason 3*."
I'd like to point you to the final line in my initial post. The implication there is that my idea is not the only way this could be done. It's a suggestion, meaning it's a draft that is to be revised until it's good enough to be implemented.
We could require bank pictures to show the amount of cash people have. Have this happen every week or something like that. Something. Obviously some people will go out of their way to avoid PKRIs, and eventually they'll be caught. If we host several money making events, they'll have no excuse. They were given aid, refused it and chose to be left alone.
I know what the keyword was, I do that often myself...
Honestly, I'm starting to think people don't want this clan to change. Instead of saying "Hey, that is an interesting idea, but instead of having it this way, because I don't think it would work this way, we could try another way which I think is better, and we could then come to a compromise," we get "I disagree because *reason 1*, *reason 2*, *reason 3*."
I'd like to point you to the final line in my initial post. The implication there is that my idea is not the only way this could be done. It's a suggestion, meaning it's a draft that is to be revised until it's good enough to be implemented.
By rachellove9 on 16/11/2008
I'm not poor for my lvl. I recently bought a bunch of rune sets. I'm not sure why I bought them but I did. I now have 11 rune sets and almost 5 mil in gp. The thing is I don't want to war or raid or fight.
I don't know if I can change to want to do that stuff, but in good faith I did buy the rune sets and I have the equipment that Elias wants us to have. I have the ring and robes. Now that I have all the equipement, how am I supose to get the desire to do it? I don't know if it is just about gp for some people. I do know I don't like feeling forced.
I went to the last two wars and it wasn't as horrible.
I don't know if I can change to want to do that stuff, but in good faith I did buy the rune sets and I have the equipment that Elias wants us to have. I have the ring and robes. Now that I have all the equipement, how am I supose to get the desire to do it? I don't know if it is just about gp for some people. I do know I don't like feeling forced.
I went to the last two wars and it wasn't as horrible.
By David on 16/11/2008
| QUOTE (rachellove9 @ November 16, 2008 05:12 pm) |
| I'm not poor for my lvl. I recently bought a bunch of rune sets. I'm not sure why I bought them but I did. I now have 11 rune sets and almost 5 mil in gp. The thing is I don't want to war or raid or fight. I don't know if I can change to want to do that stuff, but in good faith I did buy the rune sets and I have the equipment that Elias wants us to have. I have the ring and robes. Now that I have all the equipement, how am I supose to get the desire to do it? I don't know if it is just about gp for some people. I do know I don't like feeling forced. I went to the last two wars and it wasn't as horrible. |
This idea of setting standards isn't about increasing activity or anything. It's more about clan unity, and dignity. I mean, you read Math's post and he's right. There is a good chance that many of the people who say they're 'poor' aren't poor and don't have the funds to attend. When in fact the case is something different. Rachel, in your case you simply dislike combat related events. Personally, you're one of the most honorable members in this clan because you dislike fighting, yet you go out and spend the money on things you really don't enjoy. You work to get items you really don't want to use because their use entails doing something you dislike. You do all that even though you have no desire to use them for your enjoyment. You do it for the clan. THAT is dedication.
What this is for is to find the people who have 5M GP, but say they're poor. In their mind they might be poor because they had 15M once and liked it, and feel that anything below that is 'poor' so they say they're poor. This standard would tell them "No, according to WG you're not poor. According to WG you have the money to attend the PKRI, so you need another reason to not attend." In most cases that other reason won't be as good as "I'm to poor," because being poor isn't a lack of dedication, it's just a lack of money. Some might say you're not dedicated Rachel because you're rather not war or raid, but the fact you spend the money you worked for on something you really don't want to do is dedication.
Just to sum this up:
It's not about increasing activity. It's about finding the people who are deliberately avoiding doing these things by hiding behind the "I'm poor," excuse.
By Ragingwealth on 16/11/2008
| QUOTE (1colonel1 @ November 16, 2008 03:41 pm) |
| I can see some abuse happening right now...is this any better than what I'm suggesting? We could require bank pictures to show the amount of cash people have. Have this happen every week or something like that. Something. Obviously some people will go out of their way to avoid PKRIs, and eventually they'll be caught. If we host several money making events, they'll have no excuse. They were given aid, refused it and chose to be left alone. I know what the keyword was, I do that often myself... Honestly, I'm starting to think people don't want this clan to change. Instead of saying "Hey, that is an interesting idea, but instead of having it this way, because I don't think it would work this way, we could try another way which I think is better, and we could then come to a compromise," we get "I disagree because *reason 1*, *reason 2*, *reason 3*." I'd like to point you to the final line in my initial post. The implication there is that my idea is not the only way this could be done. It's a suggestion, meaning it's a draft that is to be revised until it's good enough to be implemented. |
Oh you got me wrong mate, I added the bolded part because some people might say it's their right and such to divide their time in RS. The bolded part was to prevent that.
I do want change in PvP as well, but no plan is perfect, so it's best to get it closer to perfection. That's why I posted, not because I'm against change or have a grudge here
The weekly screenshot idea actually sounds good though!
By David on 16/11/2008
| QUOTE (Ragingwealth @ November 16, 2008 06:00 pm) | ||
Oh you got me wrong mate, I added the bolded part because some people might say it's their right and such to divide their time in RS. The bolded part was to prevent that. I do want change in PvP as well, but no plan is perfect, so it's best to get it closer to perfection. That's why I posted, not because I'm against change or have a grudge here The weekly screenshot idea actually sounds good though! |
Didn't mean to sound angry there, it's just I knew what you were talking about. Didn't need the instruction to your bold word. I had the exact same thought when I was writing this up. I rationalized it this way:
If they're really going to go out of their way to not make money, or spend it all quickly then they're hurting themselves in two ways:
1. They won't get anything of huge value because we'd notice (BGS, DFS, AGS) or because they wouldn't be able to save up the money.
2. We'd find out if after two weeks they're STILL under 1M without 5 Rune Sets.
Yeah, we just need to build off these ideas.
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