Are we too nice?

So we just got a small miniwar vs FT, and yes, it's on a weekday, and yes, the times weren't suitable for everyone, however we noticed that several members "skipped" the war. Some people think they're sly by suddenly changing their IRC nick to AFK or exiting. We're not stupid. Skipping wars is probably the most unacceptable thing you can do in a clan, you're letting every single one of us down.

I'd like you all to view this topic:
http://www.zybez.net/community/index.php?showtopic=1190708

The majority of clans kick out their members or give them a warning, although most clan's have a much more severe warning system than us. Now in WG, when someone skips a war, nothing usually happens (unless it's a week prep). Am I making small prep wars mandatory? No. Am I increasing the punishment of deliberately skipping wars? Yes.

Some excuse are legitimate, such as I'm leaving in five minutes or my internet is extremely laggy. These are only valid once or twice, but the same excuses from the same people will not be tolerated and punished accordingly. The excuses that are EXTREMELY not valid is you can't afford rune, you don't have supplies, or you don't feel like it/doing something else. Those will result in an auto-warn and possible kick.

Just remember, you are in the Wilderness Guardians. If you refuse to step foot in the wilderness then this clan isn't for you. In the nicest way possible, I think that a clan of 50 active and dedicated members is better than 100 lazy and not dedicated.

Let's admit this. MOST of you have never experienced wilderness pking and joined WG during the CWA era. It's ok really, but you have to realize that clans can't survive just through the arena. We have to move to the wilderness and we have to do it soon. You will be noticing far less wars in the CWA and much more pkris and pvp wars. If you can't keep up and/or keep skipping, well, I'm sorry, but that's who WG is and always will be.

Honestly guys, pulling 60 people to a war is absolutely terrific. A lot of other clans were impressed and realized that WG is no joke. All we have to do is bring our number to pvp and we're ready. The journey of a thousand miles always starts with one step.

Get your rune, drop your excuses, and lets kick some ass

+1!!!

Get over yourselves, look at the ARPK code, that means something here. If that's not for you, make your Goodbye topic now.

+1
Great post.

Yes.

I joined in the CWA era, I haven't even completely realized the good tanking areas for the T2T-GDZ area. I still try my hardest

Finally,

Well done randy, great move.

Lets be clear, we're not saying you cant skill, but you have all day to skill, and a war takes..30 mins?

COME ON WG
WE CAN DOO ITT!

You guys know who you are, and trust me we know who you are too .

Yay for king randy

Agreed, it would be nice to go back to the old style of warring, that myself and many others grew up on.

However, living in a college dorm, my friends will just pop their heads in and ask me to do something or hang out on the spur of the moment, and I will not turn them down for a game. However, any time i'm on, i'll go.

Meh lol
I can see atm the people reading this are the only people i see step into pvp.

Its the same people over and over. But thats not to say we dont have any other members who can return. We do.

If you guys and gals who dont step into the wilderness with us then your not only hurting the clan. Your hurting yourself, because you commited to help WG when you can and if you cant even show that you will die beside us, then all i can say is hope you have a good sleep.

Maybe some of you don't care about if we die and just enjoy ur pixels then so be it. Just dont bring it into this clan because this clan is supposed to be a family that can help out each other. Btw im not saying die 10+ times like the staff + me + and the pkers in this clan. But show some interest and initiative to help out..

Yeah I couldn't go to that war because I just got home from school, I was browsing the WG forums during my english class and posted that I would not be able to attend.

The absolute truth is that you are never going to be able to be completely active. But you can put your best foot forward and be as active as possible. The clan is a group effort and is only successful when everyone cooperates. You can't simply go out of your way for one war and expect to be let off the hook for another one. You HAVE to be as active as possible.

I would have come but went to a basketball game sorry. I wish more people would have come to the war against GK the other night also. Some people even openly said no. I know it would have mattered because we out pulled them () but it's the principle of it.

Yeah sorry I missed whatever that war was yesterday, normally I'm up to come on short notice, but I was typing a paper, and the only reason I was online was that a friend that hasn't been on in like literally years was on and we had a nice catch-up chat. I was checking up on rs once every few minutes just to keep logged on while I was typing for like 2 hours. Again, I'm sorry doesn't usually happen, but I do apologize, and support I agree.

really its just rune lmao people need to stop worrying about getting dragon and just buy rune sets with it tbh

A good post.
However, if you want to pull good numbers have a longer prep time (2-3 days).

On a side note, look randy has his own emoticon.
< Kingrandy0

I just got 94 mage. I'm waiting for some p2p raids, even a p2p war.

When WG starts doing those again, you'll see me at more PvP events again.

I was in the chat for most of today, I would have come to the war but I seriously didn't hear any channel notices (perhaps I got up from the computer to eat dinner). I play RS on Stretchable High Detail, and I use mIRC for chat, so I check it only every few minutes.

I missed today's war for a good reason

i had a double double in today's basketball game

12 points, 11 rebounds

BEAST

Really i've got only one view on this
I attend a war maybe a week ago, it was nice i got a single kill and my loot was lucky
(Corupted d legs)but i died with almost 500k it takes me awhile making that much im not a kinda of person to make a bunch of money running snape grass its just not fun.
I train as i can and pick up 100-150k an hour if im lucky for me its all about the experience im gaining.

The other problem is half mine im sure but i cant Auto join #wg on swift kit so i dont even know if theres anything going on.

Billy

rawr

I'm not sure if I'm one of the "you know who you are" group. So far all the wars/PKRIs that have occurred since I've been back have had a legitimate excuse, at least I hope so. If there is a problem with members not attending enough without a valid excuse, I think a warning is in order.

Was obviously pretty spontaneous if there's no topic for it.

I want to see the return of weekly or bi-weekly weekend raids, both f2p and p2p.

was a tbe led allied raid but we spammed "join #alled for p2p raid with tbe" for about 3 hours/

I have school to go to, homework to do, and friends to hang out with. I need to know these things days in advance.

Yesterday, I was napping because I was sick.
Today, I came and lost my set of rune, WHILE LAGGING

So yeah. Gtfo using the excuse that you were lagging. I was using lowest detail while lagging quite bad. Just try to do what you can. If you can be cut, then volunteer, but always come to a war when given a chance.

I think the case is, step it up or get out.

It's about time action was taken, people skipping wars and making shitty excuses is what drove me out of the warlord position, and to actually violate my 2 weeks notice, that's how bad it was.

I agree with Randy, 50 active members is better than 50 active and 50 not interested in wars, it's time to give WG a kick in the arse, we can do what we want when we want if you guys put the effort in.

And to the people that do skip wars, FUCK OFF!

Sorry, but I have class all day on most weekdays.

But I do believe we should start being more strict with this kind of thing. People should WANT to come to these events, so why aren't they? There's the ultimate question.

Very good post.

I do think that leadership is a bit too easy on people for skipping wars, like come on wars are pretty much the only thing you are asked to attend and to skip is pretty low. I have always hated the fact that our memberlist doesn't reflect our strength, we have way too many people who seem to miss wars way too often and to me are just making our strength look bigger than it really is.

I would love to have a smaller group of active members than a large group with some inactive however I'm not sure if WG is the type of clan that would do that.

Sounds fair. Like to claim that i didn't know about the war and was in school

+1 to the post

Great post Randy well done.




Brandon

It's always a hard thing to kick/warn people for skipping. And yes, I think it should be done.

The hardest part of doing all this, is the force to act objective...

Good post Randy

+1

But we do still need to do skilling events, they relieve you from the stress's of warring.

I don't think it's that the Council is to nice, I think it's that our rules are very very vague.

We have a rule that says events aren't mandatory, but complain about inactivity. Well, technically speaking, we did that to ourselves.

In most cases this clan pulls through when it's needed. Our last two RAW wars we've had 60+ pulls, that's pretty good. But when it comes to smaller events, like raids, ToG, and sometimes even PKRIs we slack off because in the rules we technically don't have to go.

Now I can understand where the Council is coming from. But I think the first step should be a slight re-work of the rules. Make them clear. Even keep the "We won't force you..." part but clarify that certain events DO hold weight and WILL affect whether or not you're considered active in the clan.

Like Jesseh said, we can't ignore the Skilling events. If we're to put this much importance on combat events we need to give a boost to the importance of the skilling events. It's not enough to just go to the wars, that isn't being active. That's attending key events. We can't have the double standard of making combat events determinants of activity, the skilling events need to hold some weight as well.

I just get the feeling that right now, we're trying so hard to prove ourselves to the rest of the clan world, that we're forgetting an entire part of the clan. We can't do that. We can, and should prove ourselves, but not at the expense of something that makes this clan unique.

I agree with this, however on the day of the FT war, I came home at 8pm, war was at 11? so I couldnt make it because I had to go early. Sorry guys

+1

I just have a few questions for you to think about: (They are rhetorical.)

Has the clan definitely decided it is pure fighting clan?
And if so, how do the skillers fit into it?

Do you really think that the turn out for wars will get better with fewer members?

Do members have changing moods that could affect their participation in wars?

Does irl have an impact on members and what they need and want from "playing" the "game"?

Will fewer warriors/members enhance the comradeship and enjoyment of the wars?

As always, huggles to all!

WG

Although at first I decided I would go to that war, I decided to go to sleep instead.

For the last short prep war I stayed up till 3 am and I got cut over 4 other people who were lower leveld than me. Then 2 of those 4 people get koed and one of our binders finds out he is still on ancient (purely coincidentially as soon as the war starts, but not when they're cutting)

I'm sorry but I really am not going to stay up for that bs. Above all I will decide for myself which non-mandatory events I attend and I don't attend. I am willing to make time for any sort of long prep war/ pkri but if I was really forced to attend every event wg made in the skilling events and all our short prep wars/raids or allied raids then I really wouldn't have any time to play runescape for myself anymore.

Also making these short prep wars/fights mandatory would be very unfair to our skilling part of the clan. Because if you were to make these events mandatory then surely you should make atleast the weekly skilling events mandatory aswell.

i noticed the huge drop in the number of people when someone mentioned going to pvp after we had beat re with 60 people. there was no where near 60 actually pking. so i know what you mean.

nty i lik mai r00n 2 mech kthnx bai


jk , but yeah I am both poor and lvl 104 yet I still go to every pvp war/pkri that I can, so no excuses plx .

Serriously, i spent 3+ hours daily in willderness (mining runite, but who cares? its still wilderness i think :XD )
I cannot afford to attend an event at 0:30 am in the morning

we should have some fun events in wilderness to allure guardians there and show them that willderness is not just about dieing and losing run sets

Some steel war with rune scimmies (no protect item pray = 25k+ dropeed -> chnce for a good loot) could really work.

+ I cannot wait to see us raiding trough wilderness agin.

PS: I agree with Starzhine, why warn levels and force memebers to attend a war? Yes, some wars (every war, in generl ) are very important for the clan, but when someone is join its always told him tht WG isnt a powerhouse and we are not just warring clan, and there is a lot of space for skillers.
Why achievements alweays change everything or is that just cause od JAgex ?

~ just my opinion

Rene, mandatory means if you HAVE to come... even if you lose all of your limbs irl. If you're online you're expected to come, but if you literally can't come then it's not a problem.

Starz, things like wars put our reputation on the line. Will the clan world care if we go skilling? No, but they will care if we win a huge war. I agree that skilling is still important, but it should never be mandatory, simply because not everyone enjoys it. On your other point, I don't mean cutting down on members just to have less, but to have a group of active people that participate rather than a huge inactive memberlist.

Great post.

+1

No, you are missing the point. I never said we make HUGE deals of wars every weekend. Wars, raids, pks, same deal. They definitely occurred every weekend, and they always required excuses for people who didn't attend. If you had an excuse then you were let off the hook.

Our recruitment topic promotes skilling and wars, yes, however like I said a hundred times skill events never had mandatory sign-ups whereas wars always did. And you said

Wow this topic really id driving the clan in 2.


I never thought a pk clan and a skilling clan could mix, appears it doesn't when you've always been 1 clan.

You should look at the first 2 pages of this topic then LOL!
Honestly bro I rarely even seen you at skill events let alone wars.

Maybe you should open your eyes and see what the members want?

Oh one more thought, now that I have 97 mage, I can stand back and barrage!

I remember the days when I was fighting toe to toe with melee and being killed by my own clan!

Come on clan, chill out a little and try to have fun!

WG

This was what I was talking about.

Randy, the point I think is that we are moving towards having the double standard that will tear this clan apart.

I understand that warring is what really earns a reputation in the clan world, but it isn't the only thing makes people join the clan. There is a difference. Our warring gets us known, but then people notice that we accommodate to both skillers and fighters and they decide to join. Obviously that's not the case with everyone, but I'm sure for some people that is how it happened.

We can't put so much importance on warring, making certain things mandatory, handing out harsh punishments and such without doing something comparable to skilling events.

I'm not talking about handing out bans for not going to ToG, but seeing as how we have more skilling events than combat, repeated avoidance of skilling events could have the same result as the skipping of a war.

Whatever we do, we CAN'T have the double standard because then skilling vs. warring thing will be far worse than it has ever been.

I've seen heated topics with almost the exact same issue before in the past - How can WG be both a successful warring and skilling clan?

I'm going to quote myself from z6 forums posted on November 24, 2006.

I totally agree with 1colonel1. I'm not bashing warring. I myself like coming to wars once or twice a month. But it seems like we're having war-like events now 2-3 times a week, and now, consequences if we don't come to the non-mandatory ones, simply because we don't want to waste our time with them and do something else on RuneScape.

However, the argument is, we can't have a SINGLE mandatory skilling event because there's a select few people that thing skilling is totally awful. Skilling is basically everything in RuneScape that isn't PvP related. Everything from those weekly D&D events, to a game or two of Stealing Creation, to a group woodcutting & logburning event. It's virtually limitless, yet I don't see why certain people hate them so much, and WG won't support them.

The argument of "Skilling gives us no reputation; warring does" is absolutely absurd. Sure, people join clans that seem fairly powerful in the clan world, but I doubt anybody tracks every single fight posted on RSC, keeping a tally of which clan wins the most or has them most often, and and then goes and joins the one with the highest number of them.

If anything, a large number of people look for a clan with good Pk trips, meaning not PKRIs or Wars. It means where you go with your friends, and actually PK people. WG is probably about 60% warring/PKRIs (and practice events), 30% Raiding, and maybe a measly 10% skilling, as far as how much importance is placed on events.

At the very least we should have an equal number of Raids as War/PKRIs. 40%, 40%, 20%, respectively, would be best.

One last thing, technicality, rather. I don't count the Skill of the Week event as an actual event. This is like saying we're going to have a week long raid, but each member just has to spend some time in PvP during the course of the week. Obviously that would take the whole "Clan" element of a "Clan Event".

Are you freaking serious Randy?

Camp bandos and make up to 20m per day or lose 1m in a PK?
The answer is pretty fucking obvious, I'd rather make money than attend these BS events.
















Just kidding Almost everyone knows my stance in this, fully agreed.

Randy, some of us did join not knowing it was a war clan. That may seem odd to you but I was in WG long time before I knew what RAW was. When I joined I didn't even know RS had wars going on.

This post got way out of hand. I read it all and if I got it right, we are a war clan entirely that only fills in our time with some skilling when we are bored. That was news to me.

Rob, I don't think our event leaders agree with you about skilling being a joke.

So I guess I'm one of those crap members your talking about that doesn't raid. I dislike killing monsters/pk and generally all killing. I'm training and trying to deal with it. My going to 12 wars, attending events, hosting, on irc, in his lordship cc, having ts, forum active, and generally willing to help out other members/intros and giving advice is nothing I guess. I am being judged entirely by my war/raid ability now.

I think some people forget that there are many personalities that make up our community. If you want all people to be exactly the same and only have your opinion that become a cult, not a clan.

Why am I training? I thought that my training would help the clan. I guess that I am not doing enough. I need someone to explain exactly what is wrong with me trying my hardest to improve and not wanting to attend raids til I am ready to do it. I don't want to just sign out or lie about being busy. The truth is I don't feel ready to do raids with the clan. Don't start with the well practice stuff or that this person does it. They are not me and I just don't feel ready. I'm coming on Saturday even though I hate the idea of it. I plan on staying 20 to 30 minutes and that is plenty of time for me to be at an event that makes me extremely uncomfortable to play. If when I leave I hear one person bash me, I am telling you now I will be upset. At least I am willing to put forth some effort to do as council is asking, even when I highly dislike and disagree with it.

All this stuff about War vs Skilling is not needed. We are one community and that is what matters. We may have many sides to our personalities, but we all our in one clan. Try to respect each others views.

don't really care if you start booting people for skipping wars....i never skip wars only because i don't want to, there's always a good reason for not attending a war.

that would be good for the clan but a huge minus for the community

Like 99% of people will disagree with me, but this will never work, if we split up and have a skilling section, and a warring section, i dont think it would be fair to join both, as that would totally go against the whole point of it, that would mean members of the skilling section shouldnt go to wars or pks etc. And members of the pk are should not go to skilling events. Unless either side has invited the other side to join.

I dont think it was fair to totally merge the skilling and pk areas together, as far as im aware there used to be a skilling area? That shoulnt have been put on the people who joined to skill like it was, makes it either a choice of turn up to mandatory raids pks etc, or leave/get booted.


No matter how much arguing goes on here, i dont think you will come to any sort of solution. We are getting knowhere.

More questions:

Have we become a pking clan?

Isn't raiding in a pvps world pking?

What are we doing in the wild? There are no longer any innocents to protect. If you are in a pvp world you are there to do player killing. PERIOD!

How many of you on the warring only side can wear the quest cape?
(To wear the cape means you are an overall player good combat good skills.)

When I joined the clan it was an antiRpking clan, "protect the innocent". And yes it seems with the changes Jagex has made we have to re-invent ourselves.

So what is it going to be?

WG

im from the eara of clans that "if theres a pk/war stop what your doing and pk/war"

Why does the drama llama have to show up on every single topic?

This is the kind of post WG needs if we want to become a respectable (by RSC standards) clan.

Well, from personal experience, it's nearly impossible to have active warring/PvP and skilling in the same clan, this is why community clans tend to suffer from huge amounts of e-drama.

As David said somewhere in the post (Sorry, would take a huge time to find it ), we should focus on mandatory events instead.

Obviously, for reputation purposes, RAW rank wars and maybe the long prep PKRI's should be mandatory.
Short prep wars, raids, SOTW, Combat SOTW, Skilling and community events should be optional
but
You have to attend one of the events mentioned above 2 times a week.

This way, our PvP and skilling events will have an increased amount of activity in both types of events, and both the skillers and PvP'ers will be happy. Personally it does pain me that it has to be this way because I mainly clan for PvP and Community (As in, not skilling, but I still do it for the clan), but it's the way I feel it has to be done.

This has been suggested multiple times by myself, colonel, and others in the same form or a similar one.
Please consider it carefully, and if people have trouble with timezones then all I can say is: If you have the time to play 'Scape, then you have the time to organize an event that suites your time too, which helps our Event Leaders as it makes the burden of more events less on them AND still makes you able to meet the mandatory amount of events.

Honestly, if someone complains about not being active enough to attend these events, then become Honoured Emeritus, who are actually allowed to play 'Scape a lil without any type of event attendance required.

Starz Don't be the hunted! Be the hunter!

Starzhine, I agree with you. I am maxed combat but I have never warred or pked and I do not plan to ever do the latter. In wars, I feel that I too am the hunted but I am trying to turn that around. TY mugger.

you Mmangler. *Big Huggles*

I feel like the prey or bait at a war or raid. Combat level seems like it would be helpful.

k interesting topic.

I just think that warring is what makes a clan.

Skilling is what keeps the clan together.

Its the rules of wg to attend wars, im pretty sure raids are optional?

You were supposed to read the rules of wg when you applyed, so therefore you would know you have to war.

As for me, i would rather skill than pk, because it always end with me loosing money, but i know that doing so is what wg needs to survive.

No need to fear Joe. I think everyone knows that you are Combat Joe a premo Hater unlike us lover types.